Will you be caught up in the rapture or left-behind??

[The Light]

Correction:

The 7th trump is the coming of Jesus to the clouds for a harvest.

The 7th trumpet is after Armageddon. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Jesus has returned to the earth and set up His kingdom.

The tribulation is over, Jesus comes, there is a harvest, then the wrath of God begins. Everything happens just like it says. The 6th seal gives us a prophetic glimpse of that day from the perspective of the unsaved.

The sixth seal gives us Jesus in the clouds. The 7th trumpet gives us Jesus on the earth. Not the same event.

 

[The Light]

Where is a gathering back to Christ in Rev 4 and 5 ?

Here are the 24 elders with crowns. Crowns are not given until the return of Jesus.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Here are kings and priests around the throne.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

You quote Matthew 24 , yet you ignore Christ clearly saying He comes after the tribulation

Christ clearly does come after the tribulation at the 6th seal.

There are two raptures. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. The second rapture will happen immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal.

The fig tree has two harvests. One coming of the Lord is like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lor. Jacob had two brides. One coming is at the trump of God or voice of God and one coming is at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets. One coming, the Lord Himself comes, one coming He sends His angels.

 

[n2thelight]

Here are the 24 elders with crowns. Crowns are not given until the return of Jesus.

Revelation 4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Here are kings and priests around the throne.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Christ clearly does come after the tribulation at the 6th seal.

There are two raptures. The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. The second rapture will happen immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal.

The fig tree has two harvests. One coming of the Lord is like the days of Noah and one coming like the days of Lor. Jacob had two brides. One coming is at the trump of God or voice of God and one coming is at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets. One coming, the Lord Himself comes, one coming He sends His angels.

At death we return to the Father ,those on the throne are already in Heaven .

Never heard of two gatherings to Christ , can you detail the two ? Just to point out , there are only TWO advents of Christ in ALL of scripture

 

[ewq1938]

The 7th trumpet is after Armageddon.

No, the 7th sounds, Jesus leaves heaven and afterwards at some point the battle of Armageddon happens.

The sixth seal gives us Jesus in the clouds. The 7th trumpet gives us Jesus on the earth. Not the same event.

Same exact event. Jesus is not on the ground at the start of the 7th trump.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, he did kill her.





No, she was in mid-rescue and did not refuse it. She simply looked back.

In what manner did she "look back?" Did she simply glance over her shoulder as she kept running away? Or did she stop, turn around and mourn for what she left behind?

Which explanation above best supports what Jesus is saying?

 

[amigo de christo]

In what manner did she "look back?" Did she simply glance over her shoulder as she kept running away? Or did she stop, turn around and mourn for what she left behind?

Which explanation above best supports what Jesus is saying?

She looked back to mourn on her old life . The sorrow of the world worketh death .

 

[The Light]

No, the 7th sounds, Jesus leaves heaven and afterwards at some point the battle of Armageddon happens.

I'm not sure why you do not understand the following verse.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's right there. All you have to do is read it and believe it. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Jesus has set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is over. I don't know why you can't see this. If you would just get out of the way and believe what is written you would find that everything falls perfectly in line.

It's all over when the 7th trumpet sounds. It is the time of the dead. It's judgement time. The story is over. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals.

Here is the fifth seal, the great tribulation.

Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus to the clouds at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Same exact event. Jesus is not on the ground at the start of the 7th trump.

Armageddon is already over at the 7th trumpet. See above.

 

[rwb]

Paul warns us not to be ignorant of the this mystery. Somehow, warning and all and it goes right past you.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Why cannot you show where Paul says that the blindness in part in removed after the fullness of Gentiles be come in? You can't show it because it Paul NEVER says it!!! If Paul had said that ALL ethnic Israel shall be saved, after having already said that not all who are of Israel are Israel and that only the remnant of them would be saved, he would have been a contradictive FOOL! Paul is no fool, because he never says that when the last Gentile is grafted into the same good olive tree with Israel of faith, this is how all ethnic Israel shall be saved. How can Paul be speaking of an ethnic people, when Israel to be saved is comprised of both Jews of faith and Gentiles of faith together, called "Israel of God". Not ethnic Israel as you imagine, but ALL people of faith!

You should heed Paul's warning not to be ignorant of the mystery, because clearly his warning has gone right past you!

 

[The Light]

At death we return to the Father ,those on the throne are already in Heaven .

Those 24 elders in Revelation 4 have crowns. You do not get crowns until Jesus has returned.

Revelation 3
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

So, Jesus has come for His Church by Revelation 4 and the elders have their crowns.

Never heard of two gatherings to Christ , can you detail the two ? Just to point out , there are only TWO advents of Christ in ALL of scripture

This verse tell you there are two harvests. The fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest. But they served another god, so the Gentiles become the 1st harvest. After the Gentiles are harvested in the grain harvest (barley and wheat) we have 144,000 first fruits. These are the 1st fruits of the second harvest, the fruit harvest.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Yes, there are two advents of Christ. The first coming. Jesus dies, is raised and ascends to heaven. He will return to earth the same way.

Jesus comes (to the CLOUDS) first for the dead in Christ before the seals are opened, the barley harvest. Jesus returns and brings the dead with him for the alive that remain, the wheat harvest. Then the seals are opened, Revelation 6 and God turns his attention to the Jews. Jacob had two brides, the second bride being the chosen bride.

The first four seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The fifth seal is the Great Tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus TO THE CLOUDS for the second harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is in heaven and the alive that are not killed because the days are cut short are gathered from the earth, along with those killed during the tribulation.. All go to heaven for the marriage supper and return with the armies of heaven. (Rev 19)

When Jesus returns to the earth at the end of the trumpets, that is the second advent.

I know this is a lot to take in, but this is a start.

 

[The Light]

Why cannot you show where Paul says that the blindness in part in removed after the fullness of Gentiles be come in?

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Pretty cut and dried. Why you can't see it, I can only reason that some have eyes to see and some don't.

You can't show it because it Paul NEVER says it!!! If Paul had said that ALL ethnic Israel shall be saved, after having already said that not all who are of Israel are Israel and that only the remnant of them would be saved, he would have been a contradictive FOOL! Paul is no fool, because he never says that when the last Gentile is grafted into the same good olive tree with Israel of faith, this is how all ethnic Israel shall be saved. How can Paul be speaking of an ethnic people, when Israel to be saved is comprised of both Jews of faith and Gentiles of faith together, called "Israel of God". Not ethnic Israel as you imagine, but ALL people of faith!

You are too wrapped up in we are Israel to rightly divide. It appears you are unable to understand these verses.

Romans 11
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

You should heed Paul's warning not to be ignorant of the mystery, because clearly his warning has gone right past you!

The Lord is coming for His Church soon. I mean real soon. You should be looking up and getting ready as the bride makes herself ready. Saddly, you are unaware of what is getting ready to happen.

 

[rwb]

You are too wrapped up in we are Israel to rightly divide. It appears you are unable to understand these verses.

Romans 11
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

That's funny! Because I believe you profess Christ and promote Zionism. It is you who is too wrapped up in saving ALL ethnic Israel to rightly divide the Scriptures. That's why you cannot let go of ALL Israel saved being ethnic even though Paul clearly says they shall not be saved without the Gentiles of faith being grafted into the good olive tree with them. That makes it impossible for "all Israel" to be ethnic and not people of faith!

Where in the verses you quote above does Paul say ALL of ethnic Israel provoked to jealousy when Gentiles too are saved means ALL Israel to be saved are ethnic Jews? Hint: NOWHERE! In fact when you quote the words of Paul with more context, Paul says through this provocation to jealousy he hopes that SOME of them might be saved. Paul is speaking to Gentiles saying the fullness of Israel shall come through them.

Romans 11:7-14 (KJV) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Paul writes that Israel of the flesh is only partly in blindness because there has always been a remnant of them saved according to election of grace. So the remnant of Israel of faith together with Gentiles of faith produce Israel of God who is neither Jew nor Gentile but a people of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue from all the world. This it Israel that shall be saved when the last Gentile is saved, then the Kingdom of God shall be complete.

 

[The Light]

That's funny! Because I believe you profess Christ and promote Zionism. It is you who is too wrapped up in saving ALL ethnic Israel to rightly divide the Scriptures. That's why you cannot let go of ALL Israel saved being ethnic even though Paul clearly says they shall not be saved without the Gentiles of faith being grafted into the good olive tree with them. That makes it impossible for "all Israel" to be ethnic and not people of faith!

Where in the verses you quote above does Paul say ALL of ethnic Israel provoked to jealousy when Gentiles too are saved means ALL Israel to be saved are ethnic Jews? Hint: NOWHERE! In fact when you quote the words of Paul with more context, Paul says through this provocation to jealousy he hopes that SOME of them might be saved. Paul is speaking to Gentiles saying the fullness of Israel shall come through them.

Romans 11:7-14 (KJV) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Paul writes that Israel of the flesh is only partly in blindness because there has always been a remnant of them saved according to election of grace. So the remnant of Israel of faith together with Gentiles of faith produce Israel of God who is neither Jew nor Gentile but a people of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue from all the world. This it Israel that shall be saved when the last Gentile is saved, then the Kingdom of God shall be complete.

Exactly. The Jews are blinded because of unbelief. They served another god and would no longer be the first harvest. Through that, salvation is brought to the Gentiles. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in with the summer grain harvest the Jews will realize they missed the harvest.

Jeremiah 8
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The seed of the woman is the second harvest as they will be regrafted into the olive tree.

Romans 11
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

About half the Church is watching for His coming and about half the Church thinks the kingdom is currently on the earth.

There are 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins. Hmmmm.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To put it simply, if you don't understand God's feast days, you don't understand scripture. Same thing with the Jewish wedding. If you don't understand the Jewish wedding, you are missing much.

Horse manure!

I do understand the feasts and they have nothing to do with the seals, trumpets or bowls!

I also have taught on the Jewish wedding system and the church for decades. this also has nothing to do with the book of revelation.

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs113m.pdf

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs039m.pdf

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs003m.pdf

Feasts of Israel | Jewish Days of Remembrance

Jewish Festivals and days of remembrance in Israel, including the feasts of Israel.

www.ariel.org

Now before you pooh pooh this expert away,

1. Born Jewish, son of a rebbe
2. Studied to succeed his father as a rebbe
3. Native speaker of Hebrew
4. Masters in Greek
5. Bachelors in biblical Archeology from Hebrew University
6. Studied for years Iin Israel.
7. Studied Jewish History and culture from Jesus times and before!

This man has a wealth of knowledge

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No. Absolutely not. I have Jesus returning to the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal. It is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 where He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. If you can't see that Jesus comes at the 6th seal when the signs of the sun, moon and stars tell you He does.............I can't help it.

I'm not sure why there is a problem realizing that Jesus comes at the 6th seal. This is the second coming where Jesus comes to the clouds. This is not the second advent where Jesus comes to the earth.

So are you saying the sixth seal is the rapture? YOur language is confusing- second advent and second coming are the same. the rapture is not any part of the second coming.

I never said Jesus coming at the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19. That is an incorrect conclusion you are making.
It is hard to discuss scripture with me as my views are quite a bit different than most. I know what you know, but you don't know what I know.

There are two raptures. Few understand this. There is a rapture before the seals opened for the Church and there is a rapture at the sixth seal for the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. Then wrath occurs. Only those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection and undbelivers go through the wrath of God.

No there is only one snatching away! Israel is carried away into the desert to be protected for the second half oof the 70th week of Daniel. there is only one rapture as described in Thessalonians and this is only for the church. A second rapture is you reading into the Scriptures things not there. who taught you this???

The fig tree has two harvests, Jacob has two brides, there is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest.

Prove me wrong that Jesus comes at the 6th seal and remains in the clouds. It's marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars which lines up with Matthew 24. The tribulation is over and then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

And once again you are creating doctrine from parables- a terrible thing to do. I do not have to prove you wrong. You have to prove you are right. I cannot prove a negative. but let us look at the sixth seal:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Not a hint of Jesus descending to the clouds.

But there is a recognition of the day of wrath of the Father and Son has arrived! that is followed by the seventh seal revealing the trumpets and vials and antichrist in full power! As always Satan and his son are merely tools used by God to serve His purposes.

 

[The Light]

Horse manure!

I do understand the feasts and they have nothing to do with the seals, trumpets or bowls!

If you understand the feasts then you should know the time of Passover is the time of the barley harvest. Pentecost is the time of the wheat harvest. The barley is the dead in Christ. The wheat is alive believers that remained when He came for the barley.

Then God turns His attention to Israel. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest.

I also have taught on the Jewish wedding system and the church for decades. this also has nothing to do with the book of revelation.

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs113m.pdf

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs039m.pdf

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs003m.pdf

Feasts of Israel | Jewish Days of Remembrance

Jewish Festivals and days of remembrance in Israel, including the feasts of Israel.

www.ariel.org

Then you know that the wedding feast is the coming of the bridegroom for His bride.

Now before you pooh pooh this expert away,

1. Born Jewish, son of a rebbe
2. Studied to succeed his father as a rebbe
3. Native speaker of Hebrew
4. Masters in Greek
5. Bachelors in biblical Archeology from Hebrew University
6. Studied for years Iin Israel.
7. Studied Jewish History and culture from Jesus times and before!

This man has a wealth of knowledge

I must say this is very impressive. I have never come across someone with these outstanding credentials. I must say, I enjoyed just reading the list. I'm like "what's next." I certainly can't stand up against that.

1. Born American German Catholic
2. Saved in a Baptist Church when visiting with a friend.
3. Baptized with water and spirit. Non-denominational.
4. Tested top 2% in Analytics and problem solving.
5. Studied under my Father.
6. Have seen the impossible many times and I mean impossible.

And I am not pooh, poohing the expert away. But don't dismiss what I am saying without scriptural proof.

 

[The Light]

So are you saying the sixth seal is the rapture?

No sir. I'm saying the sixth seal is A rapture.

YOur language is confusing- second advent and second coming are the same.

No sir. Second coming is when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. Second advent is when Jesus returns to the earth the way He left.

the rapture is not any part of the second coming.

The rapture is not part of the second advent. There is A rapture at the second coming.

No there is only one snatching away! Israel is carried away into the desert to be protected for the second half oof the 70th week of Daniel. there is only one rapture as described in Thessalonians and this is only for the church. A second rapture is you reading into the Scriptures things not there. who taught you this???

There are two raptures. The grain harvest and fruit harvest.

The fig tree has two harvest. This is fact.

I did not learn this from anyone. Just the Word.

And once again you are creating doctrine from parables- a terrible thing to do. I do not have to prove you wrong. You have to prove you are right. I cannot prove a negative. but let us look at the sixth seal:

Ok. Let's look at the 6th seal.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Not a hint of Jesus descending to the clouds.

You are correct there is not a hint of Jesus descending to the clouds in these verses. But let's do a little analysis on these verses. What do we see? We see the 6th seal is opened and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Now, let's look at Matthew 24.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

When we read Matthew 24 we have a PERFECT TIME STAMP. We see the sun in darkened, the moon not giving light and the stars fall from heaven. The stars falling from heaven is the fallen angels being cast to the earth. You should notice the exact same events in Revelation 6.

From these scriptures, what do we get. When the sixth seal is opened, we cannot see that Jesus comes to the clouds. But we can see the time stamp of the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars. We see these very signs in Matthew 24 and lo and behold, we also see the coming of Jesus. That information should tell you that Jesus comes at the sixth seal.

I know that most people think that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus after Armageddon. However, it is the coming of Jesus to the clouds for the gathering from heaven and earth before Armageddon. (before the trumpets of wrath).

But there is a recognition of the day of wrath of the Father and Son has arrived! that is followed by the seventh seal revealing the trumpets and vials and antichrist in full power! As always Satan and his son are merely tools used by God to serve His purposes.

The antichrist is in power long before the 6th seal. When the rider on white horse rides, at the 1st seal, the Antichrist is in power.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sure why you do not understand the following verse.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's right there. All you have to do is read it and believe it. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever.

Jesus has set up His kingdom on the earth. Armageddon is over. I don't know why you can't see this. If you would just get out of the way and believe what is written you would find that everything falls perfectly in line.

You are still insisting Arm is over at that point when it hasn't even started. The sounding of the 7th trump is the very beginning of it. The last event of the 7th trump is Arm when the two beasts are cast into fire and satan imprisoned.

Armageddon is already over at the 7th trumpet. See above.

Nope. Arm is last not first regarding the 7th trump.

 

[ewq1938]

In what manner did she "look back?" Did she simply glance over her shoulder as she kept running away? Or did she stop, turn around and mourn for what she left behind?

Which explanation above best supports what Jesus is saying?

Scripture just says she looked back.

Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

Being killed for mourning doesn't make sense but looking back because she liked the sinful life she had there does.

A second issue is that scripture says Lot had two daughters and two daughters came with him so there is no daughters to mourn for anyways.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Scripture just says she looked back.

Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

Being killed for mourning doesn't make sense but looking back because she liked the sinful life she had there does.

A second issue is that scripture says Lot had two daughters and two daughters came with him so there is no daughters to mourn for anyways.

In my studies of the writings of Moses, I have found that he has great skill with regard to brevity, saying a lot with a few words.

Take a look at this section here for example.

12 Then the two men said to Lot, “Whom else do you have here? A son-in-law and your sons and daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it.” 14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, “Up, get out of this place, for the Lord is destroying the city.” But he appeared to his sons-in-law to be joking.​

​

15 When morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Up, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away in the punishment of the city.” ​

Not only did Lot have two daughters living at home with him, according to verse 12, he also had a son-in-law living at home with him. I believe Moses intends to imply that not only did Lot's household consist of two unmarried daughters, but it also consisted of a married couple: a son-in-law and his betrothed. According to verse 15, Lot had two daughters "who are here." And according to verse 12, Lot also had a son-in-law who "you have here." In other words, living with Lot and his wife were two unmarried daughters and a married couple. So Lot had three daughters living at home, two unmarried daughters, and one married daughter.

He also had relations living elsewhere in the city just as the Angel said, "whomever you have in the city." Lot had other sons-in-law and he went to them to convince them to leave the city. His sons-in-law thought he was just kidding. Bear in mind that each son-in-law was engaged to be married to one of Lot's daughters. Moses refers to them as "sons-in-law" because the couple lived together as an engaged couple (just as Jesus' parents did.)

In other words, Lot had more than two daughters, he had many, some living in his household and others living with sons-in-law. Lot's engaged daughters would remain with the sons-in-law.

With regard to Lot's wife, Moses writes,

18 But Lot said to them, “Oh no, my lords! 19 Now behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have magnified your compassion, which you have shown me by saving my life; but I cannot escape to the mountains, for the disaster will overtake me and I will die; 20 now behold, this town is near enough to flee to, and it is small. Please, let me escape there (is it not small?) so that my life may be saved.” 21 And he said to him, “Behold, I grant you this request also, not to overthrow the town of which you have spoken. 22 Hurry, escape there, for I cannot do anything until you arrive there.” Therefore the town was named Zoar.​

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23 The sun had risen over the earth when Lot came to Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah from the Lord out of heaven, 25 and He overthrew those cities, and all the surrounding area, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. 26 But Lot’s wife, from behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.​

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During the escape, Lot begged the Angels to allow him and his family to enter Zoar for protection. Moses tells us in verse 23 that Lot came to Zoar. Moses tells us in verse 26 that Lot's wife looked back "from behind him." What does he mean?

Here is the picture I get. Lot and his family are headed for the mountains for protection. Lot realizes that in his old age and with his wife and daughters, he is afraid that they won't make it to the mountains in time. So lot asks the Angel if the town of Zoar would suffice. Moses tells us in verse 23 that Lot successfully arrived at Zoar at sunrise. In verse 26 Moses says that Lot's wife was "behind him" meaning that she was still in transit; she hadn't yet arrived in Zoar. She fell behind and therefore she was still in the blast zone (so to speak.) She stopped to look back, which is why she lagged behind Lot.

Does that make sense?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you understand the feasts then you should know the time of Passover is the time of the barley harvest. Pentecost is the time of the wheat harvest. The barley is the dead in Christ. The wheat is alive believers that remained when He came for the barley.

Then God turns His attention to Israel. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest.

But you forget the harvests are not prescribed feasts of Israel.. Passover and Pentecost are, but not because of the barley and wheat.

No sir. Second coming is when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord. Second advent is when Jesus returns to the earth the way He left.

Jesus left the earth visibly and physically, HIs return will be the same way. Calling them return and advent is disingenuous. advent and coming are the same. they are synonyms of one another.

When we read Matthew 24 we have a PERFECT TIME STAMP. We see the sun in darkened, the moon not giving light and the stars fall from heaven. The stars falling from heaven is the fallen angels being cast to the earth. You should notice the exact same events in Revelation 6.

But you assume there can only be one time when the sun is darkened and the moon gives not her light!

You forget Joel calls the tribulation the Day of the Lord as do many OT prophecies. The Day (or time) is terrible full of darkness and gloom and terror and called the time of Jacobs trouble. Jesus physical return is not a time of gloom and darkness but of restoration. the start of teh 70th week is the time of Jacobs trouble/The Day of the Lord.

the major purpose of the 70th week of Daniel is to prepare Israel as a nation to receive Jesus as Messiah.

Ex. 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

1. Born American German Catholic
2. Saved in a Baptist Church when visiting with a friend.
3. Baptized with water and spirit. Non-denominational.
4. Tested top 2% in Analytics and problem solving.
5. Studied under my Father.
6. Have seen the impossible many times and I mean impossible.

Studied under your Father. does that mean ytou are claiming like Paul and taught directly by God? Whom have you confirmed your teachings with as Paul did with the leadership of the church of his day.