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In a recent thread we partly considered Luke 10:18 which reads, "So he said to them, “I saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven"
The usual approach is to use this verse to prove the doctrine that Satan, a rebel angel, was cast from heaven after a great war in Heaven with the forces of Almighty God.
For some here, you will immediately have cause to ask questions of the text to prove, if this was the intended meaning, or did the writer have something entirely different in mind.
My immediate concern is the simile which is 1."fall as lightening from heaven" which is used in a similar way to 2. “The classroom was buzzing like a beehive" or to use a Scriptural example 3. “The Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove.”
In each example the comparison is emphasizing:
1 Fall
2 Buzzing
3 Descended
So in relation to Luke 10:18 we can say the target concept is an adversary (satan) falling. Of course, the lightening provides speed, and heaven (the atmosphere), is where lightening comes from.
What is important to note is the simile cannot be pushed to say Satan was in heaven no more than the buzzing classroom was in the beehive, or the Holy Spirit is a literal dove.
The writer is emphasizing that the adversary was being overcome (fall) by the work of the Lord's disciples. The issue we have is determining precisely what that adversary was. More than not, the adversary changes from Scripture to Scripture as we will see.
Example. Matthew 16:23
So Peter took him (Jesus) aside and began to rebuke him “God forbid, Lord! This must not happen to you!” 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”
There are occasions in the Bible where the interpretation of a text is provided for us and here is a case in point.
Jesus says: “Get behind me, Satan! because Peter is being an adversary (satan) to Jesus suggesting his death will not happen.
Jesus qualifies Satan as being "because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”
The Satan here is easily defined as being Peters fleshly thinking because he is not focusing his mind on the will of God therefore he cannot understand the Lords looming crucifixion.
That's an easy text to interpret, but what about those passages where the adversary is more difficult to unpack and define?
Luke 10:18 is one such passage.
Observations:
The comparison in Luke 10:18 is not that, as lightning falls from heaven so Satan fell from heaven. The point of the comparison is rather that the swiftness of the fall of Satan is as lightning falling from heaven.
So the adversary is not in heaven, or coming from heaven, or falling, or being cast from heaven, but rather its the speed at which this adversary has fallen.
The context in Luke 10:17 indicates its the casting out of demons (or illnesses as is now understood)
We will need to further unpack the language used from antiquity to the early modern period to fully appreciate why they used such terminology.
In conclusion, I appreciate people will have strong views on this subject and even the verses referenced. I do hope we can carefully consider the text without forcing notions which might not be present. There are many Bible verses to consider and rather than being overwhelmed I will try and keep this "on topic", as much as is possible.
F2F
The usual approach is to use this verse to prove the doctrine that Satan, a rebel angel, was cast from heaven after a great war in Heaven with the forces of Almighty God.
For some here, you will immediately have cause to ask questions of the text to prove, if this was the intended meaning, or did the writer have something entirely different in mind.
My immediate concern is the simile which is 1."fall as lightening from heaven" which is used in a similar way to 2. “The classroom was buzzing like a beehive" or to use a Scriptural example 3. “The Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove.”
In each example the comparison is emphasizing:
1 Fall
2 Buzzing
3 Descended
So in relation to Luke 10:18 we can say the target concept is an adversary (satan) falling. Of course, the lightening provides speed, and heaven (the atmosphere), is where lightening comes from.
What is important to note is the simile cannot be pushed to say Satan was in heaven no more than the buzzing classroom was in the beehive, or the Holy Spirit is a literal dove.
The writer is emphasizing that the adversary was being overcome (fall) by the work of the Lord's disciples. The issue we have is determining precisely what that adversary was. More than not, the adversary changes from Scripture to Scripture as we will see.
Example. Matthew 16:23
So Peter took him (Jesus) aside and began to rebuke him “God forbid, Lord! This must not happen to you!” 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”
There are occasions in the Bible where the interpretation of a text is provided for us and here is a case in point.
Jesus says: “Get behind me, Satan! because Peter is being an adversary (satan) to Jesus suggesting his death will not happen.
Jesus qualifies Satan as being "because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”
The Satan here is easily defined as being Peters fleshly thinking because he is not focusing his mind on the will of God therefore he cannot understand the Lords looming crucifixion.
That's an easy text to interpret, but what about those passages where the adversary is more difficult to unpack and define?
Luke 10:18 is one such passage.
Observations:
The comparison in Luke 10:18 is not that, as lightning falls from heaven so Satan fell from heaven. The point of the comparison is rather that the swiftness of the fall of Satan is as lightning falling from heaven.
So the adversary is not in heaven, or coming from heaven, or falling, or being cast from heaven, but rather its the speed at which this adversary has fallen.
The context in Luke 10:17 indicates its the casting out of demons (or illnesses as is now understood)
We will need to further unpack the language used from antiquity to the early modern period to fully appreciate why they used such terminology.
In conclusion, I appreciate people will have strong views on this subject and even the verses referenced. I do hope we can carefully consider the text without forcing notions which might not be present. There are many Bible verses to consider and rather than being overwhelmed I will try and keep this "on topic", as much as is possible.
F2F
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: where it tells you who the "day star" is..."Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (Isaiah 14:4). (The preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon).
