With careful reading you can understand the Bible - Luke 10:18

[amigo de christo]

Best for another thread I suggest - keeping to the OP. Thanks

Okay my friend . Be sure and try and answer it elsewhere . I worry for so many souls my friend .
I am not here to condemn any , but rather to point to the ONLY HOPE one can ever have , the only salvation ONE can ever have .
So to one and to all i say only this , BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST and ye shall be saved .
Okay . back to the thread now .

 

[face2face]

op: with careful reading you can understand The Bible?
One can learn from reading, but understanding is based on:

A) IF one is a natural man:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1Co_2:14) foolishness Is NOT Equal To understanding!

B) IF one is a spiritual (with The Indwelling Spirit Of God) man, Then:

1) "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which The Holy Ghost Teacheth; Comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1Co 2:13) What Does This Teacher Command?:

2) "Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word of Truth." (2Ti 2:15)
​

C) Are there any Other Bible "study" Rules that are applicable to understanding?:

(1) “Let ALL things be done Decently and In Order!”
(1_Corinthians_14:40 KJB!)

(2) Study ALL Scripture Rightly Divided! :

“Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!”
(2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!)

(3) Never Ever add to, Or take away From, God’s PURE And Holy Word!
{ Including "God's Contexts!," [Prophecy] Rightly Divided from [MYSTERY!] }
(Deuteronomy_4:2, 12:32; Proverbs_30:5-6; Revelation_22:18,19 KJB!)

(4) Be noble students :

“These (in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
that they received The Word with all readiness of mind, and
searched The Scriptures daily, Whether Those Things Were So!”
(Acts_17:11 KJB!)

(5) Build Sound Doctrine, God’s Way! :

(5a) "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
(Isaiah_28:10, 13 KJB!)

(5b) Find ALL Related Scriptures For A Specific doctrine! :

”ALL Scripture Is Given By Inspiration Of God, And Is
Profitable For Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may
be perfect, throughly furnished unto ALL good works!”
(2_Timothy_3:16-17 KJB!)

(5c) Compare ALL Related Scriptures to learn and know a
Specific doctrine! :

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s
wisdom teacheth, but Which The Holy Ghost Teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual!”
(1_Corinthians_2:13 KJB!)
{Comparing Scripture With Scripture!}

“Simplicity” in CHRIST! (2_Corinthians_11:3 KJB!) Amen?

(6) The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :
The BIBLE Itself!

NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures
by the "few" difficult verses, But, ALWAYS Always
Interpret the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses
By ALL Of The MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of
God’s Pure And Holy Word!
+
ONE Final Excellent Rule for Knowledgeable Bible study! :

(7) In order to Honor The Father And The SON (John_5:22-23 KJB!),
in Preparation For Judgment, Always keep {Uppermost} in mind:

”Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do,
do ALL to The Glory Of God!” (1_Corinthians_10:31 KJB!)
-------------------------------
And then we ALL, who are "Called Into Fellowship With
God's SON, The LORD JESUS CHRIST" (1_Corinthians_1:9 KJB!),
And,

"Endeavouring For The Unity Of God's Spirit In The Bond Of
PEACE!..." (Ephesians_4:3 KJB!), can obey God's Exhortations! :

”...speak...the things which become Sound Doctrine!”
(Titus_2:1 cp "SAME mind And judgment!" 1_Corinthians_1:10 KJB!)
Amen?

Would the Results of following All of God’s Rules Above Be:

“That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in
love, and unto all Riches of the Full Assurance Of Understanding,
to the acknowledgement of The Mystery Of God, and of the Father,
and of CHRIST!” (Colossians_2:2 KJB!)?
---------------------
Conclusion: simply careful reading, Or:

Prayerful/Careful "study" per All Of the above, for understanding?:

Do we understand What God Would Have us all "see" Today?:

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today,?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified in
understanding God's Simple Will!​

It's all off-topic I'm afraid.
The subject is based in understanding and interpreting Luke 10:18 - sadly most Christians who profess your sentiments cant even read a single verse and provide cohesive understanding. Such an example is using Luke 10:18 to suggest a divine angel is actually falling from heaven like lightening. The simile stands and the previous verse is the context.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well this is about to be off topic too , but i cant help but to say it .
LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED . JESUS ALONE IS OUR ONLY HOPE .
GOOD NIGHT everyone .

 

[ScottA]

The nature of the adversary is an interesting study. I have a challenge for you ScottA. The adversary is attributed to God in every occurrence Job 42:11 and there are a lot of them!

Also nowhere in the book of Job is Satan explicitly stated to be a fallen angel.

What is your challenge?

I was not referring to whether or not Satan was a fallen angel, but rather that he was indeed in heaven (in the presence of God).

 

[ScottA]

Romans 15:4

Hope in the scriptures is one thing, evaluating the conjecture of varied interpretations is another. Believing in the literary foolishness and confusion is even worse.

There is but One true means of discerning the scriptures, and although it may prove to be curiously interesting, that way is not by wordsmithing the scriptures.

 

[face2face]

What is your challenge?

I was not referring to whether or not Satan was a fallen angel, but rather that he was indeed in heaven (in the presence of God).

So for clarity you're implying Satan came with other angels and spoke face to face with God in Heaven? This is the God who cannot look upon evil Habakkuk 1:13 who is having an amicable discussion with God about His righteous servant Job?

Is that your belief?

 

[face2face]

Hope in the scriptures is one thing, evaluating the conjecture of varied interpretations is another. Believing in the literary foolishness and confusion is even worse.

There is but One true means of discerning the scriptures, and although it may prove to be curiously interesting, that way is not by wordsmithing the scriptures.

Hope is not in the Scriptures, but in the One who Inspired them. Your observation of wordsmithing is odd; surely you don't believe God inspired 40 authors over 1600 years all writing the Will of God for man to not discern them correctly? Rightly dividing them is the skill of any disciple seeking to know the will of Him who called him to Election and Glory. I wonder what your true motivation is behind these comments.

 

[ScottA]

So for clarity you're implying Satan came with other angels and spoke face to face with God in Heaven? This is the God who cannot look upon evil Habakkuk 1:13 who is having an amicable discussion with God about His righteous servant Job?

Is that your belief?

I didn't say angels, but rather that Satan came among the sons of God in his presence.

As for Habakkuk 1:13, you apparently assume that God did nothing to Satan...the same assumption Habakkuk made.

 

[face2face]

I didn't say angels, but rather that Satan came among the sons of God in his presence.

As for Habakkuk 1:13, you apparently assume that God did nothing to Satan...the same assumption Habakkuk made.

Grappling to understand your vagueness. Who do you think the sons of God are?

 

[ScottA]

Hope is not in the Scriptures, but in the One who Inspired them. Your observation of wordsmithing is odd; surely you don't believe God inspired 40 authors over 1600 years all writing the Will of God for man to not discern them correctly? Rightly dividing them is the skill of any disciple seeking to know the will of Him who called him to Election and Glory. I wonder what your true motivation is behind these comments.

I am not saying that the scriptures were inspired in vain. Not at all.

But you are leaving out the planned confusion placed upon all language by God, a type of blindness placed upon his own chosen, and his method of revelation of all truth line upon line, here a little, there a little. And here you seem to assume against these truths, that those called have the ability to do differently by their own interest in knowing more in their own time.

That is not how it works.

 

[ScottA]

Grappling to understand your vagueness. Who do you think the sons of God are?

Before I go beyond the scope of this conversation or encourage even more speculation and conjecture, let me just say: ...It doesn't say.

 

[face2face]

Before I go beyond the scope of this conversation or encourage even more speculation and conjecture, let me just say: ...It doesn't say.

A good answer.

 

[face2face]

I am not saying that the scriptures were inspired in vain. Not at all.

But you are leaving out the planned confusion placed upon all language by God, a type of blindness placed upon his own chosen, and his method of revelation of all truth line upon line, here a little, there a little. And here you seem to assume against these truths, that those called have the ability to do differently by their own interest in knowing more in their own time.

That is not how it works.

I need to think more about what you are saying here. Can you elaborate some more? Maybe provide an example?

 

[farouk]

How can one be baptized of the Holy Spirit?

@Mantis Romans 8.9 says, 'if any man have not the Spirit if Christ, he is none of His'. From Pentecost onward, all born again believers are indeed indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

This theology is a prime example of overthinking and spiritualizing away what is a clear statement. There is no hidden teaching to be found in what Christ said there. He was literally talking about witnessing Satan being cast down to this earth before Adam was created.

So...you jump to Isaiah 14 where it tells you who the "day star" is..."Take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased!" (Isaiah 14:4). (The preceding chapter is a prophecy against Babylon itself, but now the prophecy is directed against the king of Babylon).

Can you see how problematic your use of Scripture is, and you fail to consider the context in both instances.

Its all there is you only read with care (the OP!)

Actually, it is your use of scripture that is problematic. God wasn't just talking about the human king of Babylon, but also Satan. Why? Because as the ruler of this world(2 Cor. 4:4, Luk. 4:5-6), Satan was the true king of Babylon. Isa. 14 is one of the many prophecies that are dual in nature. It becomes extremely obvious in verse 12 where the prophecy against the human king transitions to God reminding Satan of his own history, and then the prophecy transitions back to prophesying against the human ruler in verses 16-17.

@Mantis Romans 8.9 says, 'if any man have not the Spirit if Christ, he is none of His'. From Pentecost onward, all born again believers are indeed indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Wrong. Only truly converted Christians have God's Spirit. The deceptiveness of this theology lies in watering down the text as referring to "believers". Heretics are believers too, but they don't have God's Spirit. The NT text teaches that there is a difference between people who just believe and people who are truly converted. Rom. 8:9 says if anyone doesn't have God's Spirit, they are not a Christian. And since Acts 5:32 says a person has to obey God to possess that Spirit, that automatically disqualifies people who buy into the evangelical notion that a Christian is someone who is already born again.

 

[farouk]

Wrong. Only truly converted Christians have God's Spirit. The deceptiveness of this theology lies in watering down the text as referring to "believers". Heretics are believers too, but they don't have God's Spirit. The NT text teaches that there is a difference between people who just believe and people who are truly converted. Rom. 8:9 says if anyone doesn't have God's Spirit, they are not a Christian. And since Acts 5:32 says a person has to obey God to possess that Spirit, that automatically disqualifies people who buy into the evangelical notion that a Christian is someone who is already born again.

I referred to born again believers being indwelt by the Holy Spirit since Pentecost.

This is correct and Biblical.

Seeing as they were not born again physically, they were born again by the Holy Spirit.

 

[ScottA]

A good answer.

I need to think more about what you are saying here. Can you elaborate some more? Maybe provide an example?

Darn, now I gotta go deeper where I was trying to avoid But you asked.

God not only created Time as a unique means limited to the world, to unpack all truth to all people and all generations, but He did it in such a way that it is an equal exposure to all generations without advantages for any. Peaks and valleys and dry or seemingly silent times of course, but all orchestrated in such a way that each person has only his varied but equal lot before God, leading up to the end and the judgement. This does two things:

1. It is the story and revelation of Jesus Christ. History is His story, of which He is the Beginning and the End.
2. It is the last will and testament/testimony of each person, and the manifestation of all things good and evil, before the judgement.

To that end--The End, time only exists as a means of delivery. But without the understanding that time is a mere creation for that purpose, one living in and only knowing nothing else but time...one would imagine that the would-be timeline we experience is something completely different, that it is the rule and not the exception. But it is indeed the exception, in fact even a close study of the scriptures will show God's use of language when referring to heavenly things, is repeatedly past or present tense. From the timelessness of the term "I am" to, you "are" a new creation, and all things "have" become new--not "will be" in the future...because there is no real future as such, you "are." Which is enough for a time-bound persons head to spin. Granted. Nonetheless, with God--this all being of Him, He is without shadow of turning--time doesn't exist, but is instead a fabrication, an illusion (according to Einstein) purposed by God. Then comes the end.

As for an example...that would unearth an innumerable amount of theological topics and side trips until the end of time. Which, of course, is the dilemma we face. Again, it is a matter of understanding just what the world is for God...rather that what we imagine it is. The examples then are as numerable as people and topics--as the sand on the seashore. But each is quite simple: Each of us are manifest by God in birth into the world of time, where we are who we are doing what we do according to His timeless reality, to be revealed evening and morning as it were, until all things come to light. So, yes, we can even change our ways within that trajectory...and yes, that makes it freewill-- But, that doesn't make time real as we consider it--it simply means we are going to walkout who and what we are in a painstaking revelation and witness a judge like the pages of a book are read one at a time, that was written before we ever started out. But even that would suggest a time-based, before and after, which does not exist with God. No, but rather, it is as it is written, in a [would-be] moment, in the twinkling of an eye...which is that [would-be] half an hour of silence in heaven. And, yes, if you took off your watch and through it away--all of scripture would read timelessly different. All of which makes wordsmithing and rightly dividing the word, not a matter of men's skill, but of God's revelation in his perfect time. The point it is a revelation, all of which is spiritually regulated only by God. Making our best access to truth, simply asking.

So. Walk it out. Seek Him. Ask. Hold to the spirit, and not to the flesh or the times of this world. Then comes the end.

 

[face2face]

He was literally talking about witnessing Satan being cast down to this earth before Adam was created.Actually, it is your use of scripture that is problematic. God wasn't just talking about the human king of Babylon, but also Satan. Why? Because as the ruler of this world(2 Cor. 4:4, Luk. 4:5-6), Satan was the true king of Babylon. Isa. 14 is one of the many prophecies that are dual in nature. It becomes extremely obvious in verse 12 where the prophecy against the human king transitions to God reminding Satan of his own history, and then the prophecy transitions back to prophesying against the human ruler in verses 16-17.

I see how you wish to force a different context but your efforts are in vain.

For instance, in Isaiah 14:11 are we to believe the arch enemy of God is accompanied by the sounds of harps? And is this arch enemy to be covered by worms in a grave? Wouldn't you believe he is to be cast into a lake of fire? Revelation 20:10? Why is Satan wanting a place in the sides of the north in Isaiah 14:13? In verse 16 he is called a man. When did Satan ever have control over a prison refusing to let people go home?

No, context favors a prophecy on the judgement on the King of Babylon. i.e Take up this proverb against the King of Babylon Isaiah 14:3-4 your fanciful story has no place at all in this chapter.

Why don't you try and find a passage in Genesis which covers the story of this fallen angel? It would make more sense for God to warn his people there than wait till 700BC in the midst of judging Babylon and it's King.

 

[face2face]

I understand many believe that the New Testament teaches that there were beings called demons? It's interesting that Jesus refers in Mark 3:23, that the subject of Satan and demons is a parable, and that, like other parables, it would require very careful reading. Clearly the pagan origin of demonology is very much a part of the peoples superstitious beliefs, which if one reads on, was cause enough for Christ to warn on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[farouk]

I understand many believe that the New Testament teaches that there were beings called demons? It's interesting that Jesus refers in Mark 3:23, that the subject of Satan and demons is a parable, and that, like other parables, it would require very careful reading. Clearly the pagan origin of demonology is very much a part of the peoples superstitious beliefs, which if one reads on, was cause enough for Christ to warn on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 1 speaks of angels as 'ministering spirits, sent to minister to them that shall be heirs of salvation'. As well as angels doing God's purposes, there are also fallen angels.