Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord

[Tex]

Read "theology of the body". Pope JPii started talking about sex in the 50s. And he didn't really stop.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Read "theology of the body". Pope JPii started talking about sex in the 50s. And he didn't really stop.

I have read that. It makes the strongest argument for true, God ordained human sexuality and makes a strong case for abandoning the evils of contraception.

Christians used to have large families, 7 or 8 kids all growing up together in small homes and they turned out just fine. Now we're being outbred by non-Christians because we've opted for "family planning" rather than God's planning. In the eyes of God, there is no such thing as an unplanned pregnancy between married spouses.

 

[KingJ]

i really wish christians would take the lead on the differences between sexual desire in men and women - in would go a long way in preserving and nuturing marriage - instead we model marriage after a 2000 Year old snapshot it is a real shame. we could save so many marriages

Am I reading right? You want to change the rules on marriage from scripture because it is 2000 years old....how exactly?

You think they had different temptations back then?

1. Well the OT makes a significant distinction between Hebrew slaves, and non-Hebrew slaves.

Lev. 25: 39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee. 41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors.

Ok, not so bad right?

Lev. 25: 4 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

2. Is that what you think we should be doing today?

Exodus 21: 7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter. 10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

3. Is that cool? Some guy buys a girl as a slave and then marries her, but can still marry another woman and have sex with both. And keep in mind, according to the OT, this is God talking. And again we see the "women as property" cultural norm reflected in the text.

Then of course we have...

Exodus 21: 20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. 21 But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.

4. Does that sound like an equivalent to "employment today"?

Let me guess ...you Googled ''Why slavery is evil''.....''OT slavery sux'''.....''OT slavery is of the devil''.......''Atheists views on OT slavery''.....''Muslim view on OT slavery''....

If only you actually read the entire chapter from which you isolated those verses ....or if only you applied some simple lateral thought on the above accusations. .....This post by you is terrible. You are bashing God, scripture and Jews.

1. You start off contradicting yourself. You say ''Scripture differentiates between Hebrew and non Hebrew slaves''....you then post Lev 25:39 If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. Only foreigners can be slaves.

2. You quote three verses from Lev 25. You miss these?

- It's a 6 year contract Exo 21:2.
- The slave can leave at anytime and the new master must not report him / her Deut 23:15.
- If the master abuses a slave the master is accountable for damages and if it is serious, the slave is free Exo 21:26-27.
- The slaves can choose to stay with their masters Exo 21.
- Whoever kidnaps a person and sells them shall be put to death Exo 21:16
- Slaves were to be 'loved as yourself' Lev 19:34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
- God speaks out against the modern idea of slavery 1 Tim 1:10.

3. Did you forget that the Jews lived by the harshest laws ever seen by mankind? Namely, they stoned each other for adultery. They hate fornication and encourage marriage if it happens. These verses are talking specifically about slaves sold with intent for marriage

Now, granted, those verses in isolation sound a bit sexist. But then we have...Deut 23:15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master.

Clearly if the slave woman thought the Jewish man her parents sold her to was fat and ugly, she could run away and take refuge elsewhere ;).

4. How did you miss verse 12? Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death or verse 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.

River, in future please Google both sides. We can be biased and batting for the devil without even knowing it.

• Gender roles are not simply held up as means by which Christians can evangelize outsiders in their culture. If this is the case, then all forms of submission referenced in the Bible (such as parents and children) can be said to be merely cultural. Also, the commands of submission and headship in the NT are based in unchanging theological truth and not portrayed as acquiescing to cultural norms. If such roles are evil (as egalitarians would claim) then the Bible would hardly teach an "ends justifies the means" type of evangelistic strategy.
• Submission is not mutual. No where in the NT are husbands told to submit to their wives. In fact, such a view is forced to say that Christ's act of sacrifice was ultimately due to his submission to the church. This is seriously flawed. Christ is not in subjection to the church in any fashion. Acts of love and service should not be confused as submission to authority.
• The word in the Bible that is translated "submit" is hupotasso. The word literally means, "to appoint under." The word is pregnant with hierarchical meaning. When referring to persons, it always relates to submission to authority. The word is often used in a military sense in which someone is under the authority and command of another. Egalitarians define this word differently based on a preconceived understanding of Eph. 5 and then use that understanding to redefine the words.
• The Galatians passage about no longer being male or female has nothing to do with gender roles or authority. This text is related to salvation and unity in Christ. We all have equal standing in Christ. Gender roles have nothing to do with equality, but submission and authority. Children do not have lesser value then their parents, yet they are in a role of submission to parents. Christ does not have lesser value than God the Father, but he was in a role of submission to the Father.

Egalitarianism is much more a product of our culture and its expectations than it is a reflection of what the Bible actually teaches. I believe Christians need to go back to the Scriptures and allow them, not culture, to determine what roles should look like in the home.

Completely agree with these explanations. Made for a good read. Thanks for posting.

Gender roles need to change because the bible needs to cater for butch woman who fancy woman, feminine men who fancy men and humankind coming from apes.

I read the passages about gender roles about the same way I read the passages about how to treat one's slaves...as text reflecting the culture at the time it was written.

Is there any scripture you do accept? ''OT, evil God and sexist Jews. Paul, sexist and a fundamentalist. Revelations was John on pot''.

 

[Enquirer]

The three biggest challenges in any marriage are: Communication, sex and money.

So while leadership and submission are the commands that God sets, failure in the above will have a serious impact on the way we
carry out God's commands.
We as Christians need to keep an eye open and cover these basics continuously as best as we can.

Also,

I remember as a young Christian going to "Men's Breakfast" on a Saturday and watching Edwin Lewis Cole vids on being a man.
He stated it clearly that "Manhood is synonymous with Christlikeness", you could not call yourself a man unless you imitated Christ.
That was the real measure of manhood ... not how many women we slept with or how quickly we decked the guy.
Are we as married men imitating Christ ?

Do we saddle our wives with lukewarm Christian imitation and then still expect them to lovingly "submit" ?
It's one thing to do something because you told to and another when you want to do it because it draws you to act.
Christlikeness in a Christian male is like music to a Christian woman's spirit and then submission doesn't become a "mission"

 

[Tex]

@Vale

I support a lot of Theology of the Body, but I object to contraception being immoral. Regardless, it is very educational and anyone that likes to read should buy it.

Btw, Fides et Ratio is my favorite encyclical.