Husbands, love your wives

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DuckieLady

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There's many posts about women. Men are also mentioned, if you didn't know.

Ephesians 5:25-33


Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. He did this to dedicate the church to God by his word, after making it clean by washing it in water, in order to present the church to himself in all its beauty—pure and faultless, without spot or wrinkle or any other imperfection.

Men ought to love their wives just as they love their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself. (None of us ever hate our own bodies. Instead, we feed them, and take care of them, just as Christ does the church; for we are members of his body.) As the scripture says, “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, and the two will become one.” There is a deep secret truth revealed in this scripture, which I understand as applying to Christ and the church. But it also applies to you: every husband must love his wife as himself, and every wife must respect her husband.
 

ScottA

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There's many posts about women. Men are also mentioned, if you didn't know.

Ephesians 5:25-33


Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. He did this to dedicate the church to God by his word, after making it clean by washing it in water, in order to present the church to himself in all its beauty—pure and faultless, without spot or wrinkle or any other imperfection.

Men ought to love their wives just as they love their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself. (None of us ever hate our own bodies. Instead, we feed them, and take care of them, just as Christ does the church; for we are members of his body.) As the scripture says, “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, and the two will become one.” There is a deep secret truth revealed in this scripture, which I understand as applying to Christ and the church. But it also applies to you: every husband must love his wife as himself, and every wife must respect her husband.

All of the gender issues and practices given by God are given in parable, as Paul put it, saying, "This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:32). All of which points to our becoming One with Christ, as Bride and Groom. Which Jesus expounded upon, saying, "that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me" (John 17:22-23).
 

DuckieLady

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All of the gender issues and practices given by God are given in parable, as Paul put it, saying, "This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:32). All of which points to our becoming One with Christ, as Bride and Groom. Which Jesus expounded upon, saying, "that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me" (John 17:22-23).
Mr. Duck here, bible scholar and lover of Christ and His church.

Your assertion that all gender issues are "parable", is misleading. One ought not seek any other meaning for practical living outside the intended meaning of the author. Paul is using Christ and the church as an example for the behavior for husbands and wives in the previous passages.

Yes, ultimately, we are the bride of Christ and will be one with Him but "when the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense.

Note from DuckieLady: Mr. Duck borrowed my phone to answer but if there are further responses addressed to him, I'll ask him to hop online after dinner.:relaxed:
 
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Verily

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Behind this verse here

Ephes 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Is still this verse here

Ephes 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

A Mystery (yes) but still practically applies
 

ScottA

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Mr. Duck here, bible scholar and lover of Christ and His church.

Your assertion that all gender issues are "parable", is misleading. One ought not seek any other meaning for practical living outside the intended meaning of the author. Paul is using Christ and the church as an example for the behavior for husbands and wives in the previous passages.

Yes, ultimately, we are the bride of Christ and will be one with Him but "when the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense.

Note from DuckieLady: Mr. Duck borrowed my phone to answer but if there are further responses addressed to him, I'll ask him to hop online after dinner.:relaxed:

Tell that to God who made them male and female beginning and ending with one man.

I wasn't stating my opinion.
 

DuckieLady

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Tell that to God who made them male and female beginning and ending with one man.

I wasn't stating my opinion.
I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you have to go to say that Paul didn't address the husbands at v. 25, but I'm pretty sure he'd answer you the same.

"I said 'Husbands, love your wives just as ...' I wasn't stating my opinion."
 
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Lambano

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Not that I'm a cynic, but I can't help but notice that the men (or at least the more vocal ones) seem to be much more concerned that the women in their lives won't submit to them than they are with living up to their God-ordained obligations to those women.

This one applies to a husband's relationship with his wife (and reinforces the Ephesians 5 quote), but the scope is not limited to that:

25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28)

But nobody wants to be the servant; everybody wants to be the ruler.

(And I do it too.)
 

DuckieLady

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Not that I'm a cynic, but I can't help but notice that the men (or at least the more vocal ones) seem to be much more concerned that the women in their lives won't submit to them than they are with living up to their God-ordained obligations to those women.

This one applies to a husband's relationship with his wife (and reinforces the Ephesians 5 quote), but the scope is not limited to that:

25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” (Matthew 20:25-28)

But nobody wants to be the servant; everybody wants to be the ruler.

(And I do it too.)
That's primarily why I brought it up with the "WOMEN SHOULD KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCHES" and "Women submit to your husbands" posts.

Its always about the women, always, or women worrying about filling the role of a wife, but it's almost never the men discussing how to be better husbands. Just how to fix her and keep her from talking.

If nobody believes me scroll down on this exact post and look at the headlines of the posts under the similar threads.

I had a pastor once that said the role of a woman was outlined in Proverbs 31, but the role of a man was to love like Jesus.
 

Verily

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That's primarily why I brought it up with the "WOMEN SHOULD KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCHES" and "Women submit to your husbands" posts.

Its always about the women, always, or women worrying about filling the role of a wife, but it's almost never the men discussing how to be better husbands. Just how to fix her and keep her from talking.

If nobody believes me scroll down on this exact post and look at the headlines of the posts under the similar threads.

I had a pastor once that said the role of a woman was outlined in Proverbs 31, but the role of a man was to love like Jesus.

The prayer life of these particular husbands that treat their wives badly are likely recieving SILENCE FROM HEAVEN. I mean afterall (and I had posted something similar on one of the other threads I think you named) that the men also have a head (theirs is just not seen).

As Paul said,

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

The LORD, to husbands

Mal 2:13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

The husbands say

Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore?

Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth,
against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

And so Peter's words to the husbands is

1Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife,
as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

So it shows the husbands prayers are subject to being hindered in respects to how they treat their own wives.

The LORD is a witness between them
 

DuckieLady

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The prayer life of these particular husbands that treat their wives badly are likely recieving SILENCE FROM HEAVEN. I mean afterall (and I had posted something similar on one of the other threads I think you named) that the men also have a head (theirs is just not seen).

As Paul said,

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.

The LORD, to husbands

Mal 2:13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

The husbands say

Mal 2:14 Yet ye say, Wherefore?

Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth,
against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

And so Peter's words to the husbands is

1Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife,
as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

So it shows the husbands prayers are subject to being hindered in respects to how they treat their own wives.

The LORD is a witness between them
I really appreciate this a lot, thank you. I never noticed that verse before and I might need to study it.

I think Mr. Duck has a discipleship manual somewhere around here that touches on some of this. Tomorrow, I'll take a look.
 
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ScottA

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I don't know how far down the rabbit hole you have to go to say that Paul didn't address the husbands at v. 25, but I'm pretty sure he'd answer you the same.

"I said 'Husbands, love your wives just as ...' I wasn't stating my opinion."

You're missing the point--the message from God.

Paul was given a previous piece of a much greater puzzle, given here a little, there a little since the beginning. But it was never a message simply involving the relationships of flesh and blood people. Those teachings only point to something infinitely greater regarding our relationship with God. But if you do not see it and want to play house with your worldly spouse and make that the object of your preaching--you hinder those who would look beyond the world to that which is Godly. It is a disservice.
 

Lambano

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But it was never a message simply involving the relationships of flesh and blood people.
And if the human part of the metaphor is FUBAR, then the GIGO principle applies and the whole metaphor falls apart, QED.

(I've got one ear on an all-hands business meeting, so I'm thinking in acronyms.)
 
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TLHKAJ

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We husbands are responsible for OUR obligations to our wives. Our wives' obligations to us are technically none of our business (though they obviously affect us). "What is that to you? YOU follow ME."
God loved us first, and that's why we love Him. It's the same principle between husband and wife. Usually, if the man (who was created first) walks in love toward his wife, it is a natural response for her to love him back ...and to respect him, and all the rest.
 

TLHKAJ

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God loved us first, and that's why we love Him. It's the same principle between husband and wife. Usually, if the man (who was created first) walks in love toward his wife, it is a natural response for her to love him back ...and to respect him, and all the rest.
I also want to mention that when a man walks in love toward his wife, if fosters trust in the relationship as well.
 

DuckieLady

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I also want to mention that when a man walks in love toward his wife, if fosters trust in the relationship as well.
You're right.

Really, it's so common sense. I don't know why people would play mental gymnastics to try to get away from what is so clear, or why anyone would even want to object to it.

If you look at the adulteress woman, the way Jesus treated women was years before his time. I'm not surprised this had to be addressed.
 
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ScottA

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And if the human part of the metaphor is FUBAR, then the GIGO principle applies and the whole metaphor falls apart, QED.

(I've got one ear on an all-hands business meeting, so I'm thinking in acronyms.)

Indeed, the metaphor has all components. But the human-practice part is simply an image projected into creation, in a glass dimly. Even so, it is a light upon a hill.
 

DuckieLady

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Indeed, the metaphor has all components. But the human-practice part is simply an image projected into creation, in a glass dimly. Even so, it is a light upon a hill.
@ScottA I aced through decoding Jabberwocky in high school and still I don't know what you're saying.

I feel like I'm not the only one.
 
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ScottA

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@ScottA I aced through decoding Jabberwocky in high school and still I don't know what you're saying.

I feel like I'm not the only one.

If you can read, that's a start...because I am just acting upon what is written. But what do you expect--have you not read that all language was confused by God? Which is the reason you are not understanding what I am saying...because you (and everyone since the tower of Babel except the prophets) have not hear things spoken plainly. And yet, plain speech, all truth, and the finish of the mystery of God was also promised, but only to come just before the end of time. How is it that you have not expected this to come?
 

SERVANTedu

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If you can read, that's a start...because I am just acting upon what is written. But what do you expect--have you not read that all language was confused by God? Which is the reason you are not understanding what I am saying...because you (and everyone since the tower of Babel except the prophets) have not hear things spoken plainly. And yet, plain speech, all truth, and the finish of the mystery of God was also promised, but only to come just before the end of time. How is it that you have not expected this to come?
Mr. Duck here again, my wife isint confused because you speak different languages. She's confused because your hermeneutics needs work.