Wives submit to your husbands

[Stephen100]

So men should have their own discussion site so SOME men can slander women in private,

(there have been some spiritually mature men who have replied, and i thank you)

So instead of showing their true (rotten) fruits before all the church they want to hide behind other men like themselves and not have to read replies from women that convict them of their slander and prejudice of women.

I have pointed out that some of the men have have claimed all women are controlling, play the blame game, act persecuted, no women who has replied has made such all or nothing slander towards men, we have agreed feminism has entered many church's, we have agreed many women do not submit appropriately to their husbands....BUT as soon as we point out their misjudgment or lack of spiritual knowledge in the area we are discussing, we get told we are critizing and judging....NO....we are encouraging and giving mature wisdom from the Holy Spirit and experience

I see a young man ( Stephan) who thinks he knows everything, and does not need to humble himself and learn from the experienced and mature Christian...then I witness another man (silenceInMotion) speak of women in such all or nothing degrading accusations of women...even claim women should only care for children in the church....I do not read this in scripture...

This is the reason feminism was created, becauses of the demeaning ways women are stereotyped

Once again you are judging and playing the victim game. Who do you think you're fooling? You're the one who has made bitter angry comments, yet you are the one playing the victim. Take the log out of your own eye before you judge others.

How funny, because some of the men say women always play victim, seems the men you hang with are doing the same, blaming the women that they must always be the martyr to have peace.....again the blame game as some have pointed out.

WE ARE TO SUBMIT TO EACH OTHER
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. (Ephesians 5). WHY....for CHRIST...not because my husband wants to watch the game and I will not let him....if Christ is not the head we get these immature accusations from Christians that are not eating solid biblical food, but still need to be nursed as babies...the church is bottle fed from the pulpits for they are more concerned for the unbeliever in the pew, than for those who are truly in need of food from the holy scriptures.

Women are called to respect their husbands, how can they do this if the man is not being a spiritual leader like you just suggested? These men are not leading, they are cowering like puppies....wow.

Seems men and women and not submitting to God, for when this happens all other spiritual things fall inline.

Well, women DO play the victim in most cases. I'm not going to be politically correct. I'm not afraid to speak the truth. In most cases, women see themselves as victims because that's how society has trained us to think. No matter how many times you have made judgmental comments, you refuse to admit or acknowledge it.

 

[Selene]

I repeat again, I have never said that a husband can treat his wife like a slave. I wish you would actually read what I say. My point is that even though Jesus and his Father are one, the Father is still in a higher position of authority, just as the husband is in a higher position of authority than his wife. I never said that this means the husband can treat her like a slave.

Stephen, this is what you stated:

Ah ha, but remember, the husband is not under his wife's authority or leadership. A husbands job is to love, honor, and protect his wife. If the husband wanted to watch the game, the wife should wait until the game is finished or pick a different day. The wife is a helper. She is to bring happiness to her husbands life, and that means letting him watch the game. A husbands job is to love and protect his wife, even to the point of death.

The wife is a helper? That is all she is? She is not even a partner in the marriage?? Her role as a wife is to only make the man happy?? Are you going to tell me that the only time the man will show his love for his wife is when a robber tries to enter the house?? By the time, the robber tries to break into the home, the man would be calling the police instead of defending his wife to the death. Why? Because if the man cannot sacrifice his time for her, I doubt that he can even sacrifice his life for her.

The man is called the "head of the family" because he represents Christ as Head of the Church. Do you know what "Head" and "authority" means according to Jesus?

Luke 22:25-27 Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.

As Head of the Church, Christ's authority was to serve the Church and to sacrifice Himself to her. Do you know what it means to serve the Church. Christ served the Church by guiding and teaching her the truth and by giving Himself to her. Is a man's authority to be like Christ or is his authority to be like the King of the Gentiles who uses his authority to exercise power and rule over the wife? As for the Church, she is to obey and trust Christ's authority in every truth He has given her. The Church trusts that Christ will not abandon her.

As for the wife, she is a human being just like her husband. She is bones of his bones and flesh of his flesh. She is to stand by his side just as the Church stands by the side of Christ. She is not underneath the feet of her husband nor is the Church underneath the feet of Christ. To stand side by side is to be one. There is no Jew, Gentile, slave, free, male, or female in Christ because all are one. All members of the Church need each other and are not beneath each other for they each perform different and important roles. As St. Paul says.....the hand cannot say to the eyes, "I don't need you." Both husbands and wives in the body of Christ are one despite that each performs a different role, and each role is important. Both are equal as human beings and neither are beneath the other. Both husbands and wives serve each other. They are one and need each other. Christ served the Church and sacrificed Himself to her. The Church serves Christ and follows after Him. This is why St. Paul said in the beginning that everyone must submit to each other.

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

After St. Paul said this, he went on to tell wives to submit to their husbands because he was comparing the wife to the Church, and then he compared the husband to Christ. Did Christ ever submit Himself to the Church. Yes, He did. He obeyed His mother Mary and stepfather Joseph. And Christ submitted to God the Father to remind the husband (who represents Christ) that he has a higher authority to submit to.

 

[Stephen100]

Hate to hear what you're going though. You do have something to be thankful about, though - you don't live in Florida with its lifetime alimony. Some horror stories: http://floridaalimonyreform.com/pdf/florida_alimony_horror_stories.pdf



Exactly. Somebody who posts a thread on marriage and says he doesn't want to get married is in denial.

LOL, that's like saying if you posted on an atheist thread and you said that you didn't want to be an atheist, then that means you are in denial. Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. Has it not crossed your mind that I'm just raising my concerns? That doesn't mean I'm in denial. If I wanted to get married I would have found a wife a long time ago.

Stephen, this is what you stated:



The wife is a helper? That is all she is? She is not even a partner in the marriage?? Her role as a wife is to only make the man happy?? Are you going to tell me that the only time the man will show his love for his wife is when a robber tries to enter the house?? By the time, the robber tries to break into the home, the man would be calling the police instead of defending his wife to the death. Why? Because if the man cannot sacrifice his time for her, I doubt that he can even sacrifice his life for her.

The man is called the "head of the family" because he represents Christ as Head of the Church. Do you know what "Head" and "authority" means according to Jesus?

Luke 22:25-27 Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves.

Christ is the Head of the Church, and He came to serve the Church and sacrifice Himself for her. As Head of the Church, Christ's authority was to serve the Church and to sacrifice Himself to her. Is a man's authority to be like Christ or is his authority to be like the King of the Gentiles in which he uses his authority to exercise power and rule over the wife?

As for the wife, she is a human being just like her husband. She is bones of his bones and flesh of his flesh. She is to stand by his side just as the Church stands by the side of Christ. She is not underneath the feet of her husband nor is the Church underneath the feet of Christ. To stand side by side is to be one. There is no Jew, Gentile, slave, free, male, or female in Christ because all are one. All members of the Church need each other and are not beneath each other for they each perform different roles. As St. Paul says.....the hand cannot say to the eyes, "I don't need you." Both husbands and wives in the body of Christ are one despite that each performs a different role. Both are equal as human beings and neither are at beneath the other. Both husbands and wives serve each other. Christ served the Church and sacrificed Himself to her. The Church serves Christ and trusts in Him.

I don't get your point. Either the wife is suppose to submit to her husband's authority, or she isn't. The Bible is clear that she is. I have said over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face, that husbands must be willing to die for their wives. How many more times do I need to repeat myself?

 

[Selene]

LOL, that's like saying if you posted on an atheist thread and you said that you didn't want to be an atheist, then that means you are in denial. Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. Has it not crossed your mind that I'm just raising my concerns? That doesn't mean I'm in denial. If I wanted to get married I would have found a wife a long time ago.



I don't get your point. Either the wife is suppose to submit to her husband's authority, or she isn't. The Bible is clear that she is. I have said over and over and over again until I'm blue in the face, that husbands must be willing to die for their wives. How many more times do I need to repeat myself?

I edited my post and added more to it. You need to go back and read it again.

The husband is called to be like Christ. So, now the question is are you going to be like Christ or are you going to be like the King of Gentiles?

 

[Rex]

I edited my post and added more to it. You need to go back and read it again.

The husband is called to be like Christ. So, now the question is are you going to be like Christ or are you going to be like the King of Gentiles?

Selene are you living up to the women's end of the deal or are you only interested in saddling up the man to ride him into the ground?

You ladies that are looking and expecting your husbands to be like Christ are in for a disappointment. That's a pretty high mark for any Christian. Are you a virtuous wife? who can find one? There apparently as rare as Christ like men.

Proverbs 31

The Virtuous Wife


The Virtuous Wife

10 Who can find a virtuous wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband safely trusts her;
So he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax,
And willingly works with her hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
She brings her food from afar.
15 She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
And a portion for her maidservants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is good,
And her lamp does not go out by night.
19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hand holds the spindle.
20 She extends her hand to the poor,
Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of snow for her household,
For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22 She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25 Strength and honor are her clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,
And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She watches over the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed;
Her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many daughters have done well,
But you excel them all.”
30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands,
And let her own works praise her in the gates.


For her worth is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband safely trusts her;
So he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax,
And willingly works with her hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
She brings her food from afar.
15 She also rises while it is yet night,
And provides food for her household,
And a portion for her maidservants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
From her profits she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
And strengthens her arms.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is good,
And her lamp does not go out by night.
19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hand holds the spindle.
20 She extends her hand to the poor,
Yes, she reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of snow for her household,
For all her household is clothed with scarlet.
22 She makes tapestry for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies sashes for the merchants.
25 Strength and honor are her clothing;
She shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,
And on her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She watches over the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed;
Her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many daughters have done well,
But you excel them all.”
30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,
But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands,
And let her own works praise her in the gates.

 

[Selene]

Selene are you living up to the women's end of the deal or are you only interested in saddling up the man to ride him into the ground?

You ladies that are looking and expecting your husbands to be like Christ are in for a disappointment. That's a pretty high mark for any Christian. Are you a virtuous wife? who can find one? There apparently as rare as Christ like men.

Everyone is a sinner, Rex. All of us are actually called to follow Christ and be like Him. Women are also called to follow Christ.

However, men are the "Head of the family" while women are the "Heart of the family." As head of the family, the man is to follow the same kind of authority that Christ showed.....and I showed you in scripture what "authority" meant to Christ. It is not the same kind of authority that the King of the Gentiles have. I don't expect any husband to be like Christ......but I would expect the men to understand what "authority" means according to Christ. Apparently, some men do not know. Women, on the other hand, are compared to the Church (the Bride of Christ). Her role is to obey, trust, and have faith in her husband just as the Church is to obey, trust, and have faith in Christ.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

Men are called to (1)protect their family, and (2)be drafted into war. They are (3)required to have complete accountability at all times and places. They typically (4)endure harder labor, and are (5)ultimately held responsible for anything that happens within society.

Women typically don't have to face any of this- they (1)stand behind their husbands, they (2)take care of the children during war and famine, they (3)get the benefit of the doubt in social situations, they (4)have a softened workplace, and (5)put the responsibility on men when social action is required.



Men deserve to be the head of the wife and their household. When women contest that, they are being selfish. Pushing to be in the military, indoctrinating men into their feminist philosophies, trying to be the preachers in church- that is a visible attack on men, usurping their roles (and only the ones they want, mind you, they don't want take on the whole male palette), and then some have the nerve to go back and speak about how we should 'submit to each other' as if their crusade on man's God given roles are invisible and unknown to us.

That act in itself shows many things. Women, collectively, have become a specialist group. They aren't being persecuted, they have nothing to be disgruntled about- they pretty much fabricate things just as a specialist group does to propel their agenda.
It's called feminism, and it's as alive as the beasts in the Amazon, skulking around everywhere practically fishing for anyone who has a problem with it so they can throw a bunch of nonsense at them like on this very thread.

 

[meshak]

I think Paul's expression of head of wife is her husband is so wrong.

Jesus never said any such thing. We are all equal under Jesus. We are all brothers ans sisters in Christ. That's what Jesus says. We ought to submit to each other.

 

[Rex]

Everyone is a sinner, Rex. All of us are actually called to follow Christ and be like Him. Women are also called to follow Christ.

However, men are the "Head of the family" while women are the "Heart of the family." As head of the family, the man is to follow the same kind of authority that Christ showed.....and I showed you in scripture what "authority" meant to Christ. It is not the same kind of authority that the King of the Gentiles have. I don't expect any husband to be like Christ......but I would expect the men to understand what "authority" means according to Christ. Apparently, some men do not know. Women, on the other hand, are compared to the Church (the Bride of Christ). Her role is to obey, trust, and have faith in her husband just as the Church is to obey, trust, and have faith in Christ.

Thats not what I asked is it? And women wonder why men ignore them, were just returning the favor LOL
Your pretty quick to condemn a young man and avoid the beam in your own eye.

The husband is called to be like Christ. So, now the question is are you going to be like Christ or are you going to be like the King of Gentiles?

If he chooses to not marry he is following Christ.

 

[meshak]

Thats not what I asked is it? And women wonder why men ignore them, were just returning the favor LOL
Your pretty quick to condemn a young man and avoid the beam in your own eye.

If he chooses to not marry he is following Christ.

It seems this thread is so hostile because guys are trying to stick to the word of Paul. He is not our Lord, friend.

Husband and wife are equal under Jesus. They ought to submit to each other.

 

[Rex]

It seems this thread is so hostile because guys are trying to stick to the word of Paul. He is not our Lord, friend.

Husband and wife are equal under Jesus. They ought to submit to each other.

I don't find anything wrong with what Paul said, the problem is men use it to to control, women use it to avoid responsibility.

You see this nature of men and women's hearts reflected in the law that governs us, the law prohibits control to men but holds them responsible in nearly every case, and women for the most part are not accountable. Who did what is for the most part completely ignored except in physical abuse to spouses or children

 

[meshak]

I don't find anything wrong with what Paul said, the problem is men use it to to control, women use it to avoid responsibility.

[/QUOTE]Paul made it worse with his word.

You see this nature of men and women's hearts reflected in the law that governs us, the law prohibits control to men but holds them responsible in nearly every case, and women for the most part are not accountable. Who did what is for the most part completely ignored except in physical abuse to spouses or children

[/QUOTE]Jesus' followers are all responsible for their behavior too including wives. They cannot hide behind husbands.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Husband and wife are equal under Jesus. They ought to submit to each other.

That's correct. But one must lead, and one must follow. Two leaders doesn't work.

 

[meshak]

That's correct. But one must lead, and one must follow. Two leaders doesn't work.

Why cant both lead their family? Of course they both have roles. they are both leading in different roles.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

So what if you get a male preacher in church? Should he only preach to men?

I think for one thing ONLY a male elder can preach and second, he's given the authority to teach on such subjects as these.

Moreover, he may not be inclined or for that matter is it necessary to speak the negative (feminist movement etc) to accentuate God's point of view.

If one is going to get down to the 'nitty gritty' and expose some home truths it may be wise to - as I said- address said issues to each camp alone.

If we as men are taught to be men and Godly ones at that there are a few things we should posses. But one of these is the greatest, when it comes to the pragmatics of manhood and being husbands and fathers etc.

GODLY WISDOM & PRUDENCE: For one it increases our maturity level if applied right of the scale, when compared with current trends. Second, it's extremely difficult to obtain, given the trend of the flesh and the world impinging on our minds. You have to be willing to seek, pray, study and analyse constantly to obtain this crown.

It means getting the same mindset as God has in regards to your fellow woman and man and never trading it. I'm NOT talking about this "namby pamby" love that's passed around as this isn't any substitute to the TRUTH.


Consider these scriptures and get back to me on what you think they mean.



1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.





Pro 1:1-6 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel; To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity; To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

 

[Angelina]

That's correct. But one must lead, and one must follow. Two leaders doesn't work.

They both must be in submission to God. When believer's marry, there is a third person involved. Ecclesiastes 4:12. A husband cannot save a wife just as a Church cannot save an adherent. They are both accountable before God...but the husband is responsible for their spiritual and physical well being, as head of his household before God.

Note the story in Acts 5:1-10. Sipphira was in obedience to her husband when conspiring against the Holy Spirit and they both died for it.

BB

 

[Rex]

In the real world being married with children is more a problem or burden for men, and nearly always a positive for women less burden.

Men are pretty much locked into the standard provider roll.

They are both accountable before God...but the husband is responsible for their spiritual and physical well being, as head of his household before God.

BB

Women on the other hand can be a Peggy Bundy watching TV and eating bomboms all day long or can choose to help. Women have fought for equal rights but wish to hold the opinion of being a Peggy Bundy as well, ether, or, anywhere in between is completely acceptable. Women have both worlds,the old and the new, they can be provided for or assume the mans roll, but very few completely assume that responsibility. Which in a court of law the stay at home dad earns the legal rights of the woman, the woman is now the wage earner and in a divorce will lose custody and have to pay child support just like men do. So of course few women place themselves in this situation. By nature or what ever it is, carnal nature, women tend to shop around for a good provider. Someone that can provide a nice nest, the more bells and whistles apparently the better. When was the last time you seen a rich woman marry a poor man? It is done but the numbers are very low. Very few trophy hunter women "shopping for a looker" women tend to be wallet shoppers and age and looks means less and less with a fat wallet.

 

[Ruth]

Peggy Bundy?

Wow, I truly hope the men speaking such condemning words of women get some counseling, you guys all have a sick perception of women, and I really hope you do not marry as you claim.

May God heal your unhealthy opinions of women.

 

[meshak]

In the real world being married with children is more a problem or burden for men, and nearly always a positive for women less burden.

Men are pretty much locked into the standard provider roll.
Women on the other hand can be a Peggy Bundy watching TV and eating bomboms all day long or can choose to help. Women have fought for equal rights but wish to hold the opinion of being a Peggy Bundy as well, ether, or, anywhere in between is completely acceptable. Women have both worlds,the old and the new, they can be provided for or assume the mans roll, but very few completely assume that responsibility. Which in a court of law the stay at home dad earns the legal rights of the woman, the woman is now the wage earner and in a divorce will lose custody and have to pay child support just like men do. So of course few women place themselves in this situation. By nature or what ever it is, carnal nature, women tend to shop around for a good provider. Someone that can provide a nice nest, the more bells and whistles apparently the better. When was the last time you seen a rich woman marry a poor man? It is done but the numbers are very low. Very few trophy hunter women "shopping for a looker" women tend to be wallet shoppers and age and looks means less and less with a fat wallet.

You are talking about secular women. We are Christians. Faithful wives are not the ones as you describe nor they should be..

Lets get this straight.

 

[Rex]

Then perhaps you can both show some divorce and or marriage numbers that show the difference in divorce rates with-in the church as apposed to outside the church?

Truth be told their is no difference.