If you read all the posts on this thread, you will see that your Christian sisters have said some nasty and judgmental things towards me, yet this doesn't seem to bother you. Of course it doesn't, I'm a man, so I guess everything has to be my fault.Axehead said:
Wives submit to your husbands
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TIME TO CLOSE THIS THREAD!
It serves no purpose to be at one another. I understand constructive criticism but it looks like we are beyond this.
It serves no purpose to be at one another. I understand constructive criticism but it looks like we are beyond this.
Or maybe I could start a fresh thread with the same topic but inform people to keep it friendly. Surely we can discuss this subject without being at each other's throats. Why should I keep quite about this subject just because a few people get angry? Remember, Jesus made his enemies angry by preaching the truth. I don't see why we should ignore the subject of feminism just because some people get upset. That's attacking freedom of speech. We should be able to talk about this subject in a friendly manner.JB_Reformed Baptist said:
Wow. You sound like you need to be in authority some place. "You're not paying attention". After you have been married for about 10 years, come back and let's talk. And yes, you are going to get married you just don't know it yet. But I do.Stephen100 said:
All the best to you, my young friend.
Axehead
What you don't realize is that disagreeing with me means you are also disagreeing with God. Everything I say about marriage is Biblical. If you don't want to listen to me, at least listen to God. Or are you one of those Christians who cherry picks God's word? If I am wrong about husbands being in charge of the family, then prove me from from the Bible. As soon as someone can prove me wrong from the Bible, I will repent and confess that I was wrong. The truth is, nobody can prove me wrong from the Bible because what I say is completely Biblical.Axehead said:Wow. You sound like you need to be in authority some place. "You're not paying attention". After you have been married for about 10 years, come back and let's talk. And yes, you are going to get married you just don't know it yet. But I do.
All the best to you, my young friend.
Axehead
And no, I'm not going to get married. Never ever ever. I have no idea why you think I will.
Peace
Some people are just blind. It adds insult to injury to attack men who voice the obvious problems of female society today that deserve attention. In fact, that is part of the problem in and of itself- people are too quick to defend women, and they don't need to be defended. It's been high time for a good little while now that this subject be brought up and discussed appropriately and with some sort of accountability.JB_Reformed Baptist said:
Stephen, I think what we are dealing with here is someone who has been very hurt in a personal way with "feminism" in the church. It's really not about proving you wrong or right or anyone else wrong or right. Is there someone that you are trying to prove this, too? I believe there is something more important here and it has to do with your heart and what God is wanting from you. Do you know what I mean? You did not just come on this board to ask this question just to ask it. There is something deeper going on in your life and someone else's close to you. Maybe more than one person, maybe an entire family.Stephen100 said:
I will be praying for you.
Axehead
100% maleStephen100 said:
Calm down Stephen. No need to get exasperated.
I think perhaps that should be said for almost everyone in this thread. Cool down, enough ad hominem, it doesn't achieve anything except display lack of self-control. (and to think that I'm trying to calm this thread down . . . . rofl)SilenceInMotion said:
As I said before we need threads for men's issues and women's issues. Of course this encompasses married life as well for either party. But what we need to understand from either sex is both have issues. Which to me is best discussed mono to mono i.e. man to man or woman to woman. What I see here is that men should be instructing men and women instruct women. As the scriptures indicate.SilenceInMotion said:
We don't instruct another man's wife or a woman a husband as this counter productive. Rather, from a man's perspective I think men should be guiding men so they become those godly leaders of the family they need to be, addressing any character issues that a man may have or misunderstanding that may pertain to manhood or misunderstanding of woman as well not to mention a husbands duty. Obviously the older woman are to guide the younger woman and deal with those personal issues that pertain to womanhood when it comes to loving her husband and children and being the manager of the home etc
Only a couple of snippets. For what's worth.
I know this for sure . If a man cannot rise above his environment, given God's plentiful wisdom and grace then it is he that must be held accountable and come to terms in regards to his inability to meet God's standard & not blame his environment. Whatever the circumstances be and whatever context it may be in.
No point Ahab blaming Jezebel if Ahab is acting like a selfish spoilt little boy, who can't rise to the occasion.
It's a fantasy to think that since the fall man can discuss with woman her issues and her with him. The closest it comes to this is in marriage and then one tends to tread carefully.Stephen100 said:
What we need is men talking to men and women to women. This I believe to be the Lord's mind as indicated in the scriptures. SHALOM
So what if you get a male preacher in church? Should he only preach to men?JB_Reformed Baptist said:As I said before we need threads for men's issues and women's issues. Of course this encompasses married life as well for either party. But what we need to understand from either sex is both have issues. Which to me is best discussed mono to mono i.e. man to man or woman to woman. What I see here is that men should be instructing men and women instruct women. As the scriptures indicate.
We don't instruct another man's wife or a woman a husband as this counter productive. Rather, from a man's perspective I think men should be guiding men so they become those godly leaders of the family they need to be, addressing any character issues that a man may have or misunderstanding that may pertain to manhood or misunderstanding of woman as well not to mention a husbands duty. Obviously the older woman are to guide the younger woman and deal with those personal issues that pertain to womanhood when it comes to loving her husband and children and being the manager of the home etc
Only a couple of snippets. For what's worth.
I know this for sure . If a man cannot rise above his environment, given God's plentiful wisdom and grace then it is he that must be held accountable and come to terms in regards to his inability to meet God's standard & not blame his environment. Whatever the circumstances be and whatever context it may be in.
No point Ahab blaming Jezebel if Ahab is acting like a selfish spoilt little boy, who can't rise to the occasion.
It's a fantasy to think that since the fall man can discuss with woman her issues and her with him. The closest it comes to this is in marriage and then one tends to tread carefully.
What we need is men talking to men and women to women. This I believe to be the Lord's mind as indicated in the scriptures. SHALOM
What a lot of people fail to see is that church order and home order reflect each other. The man is the overall leader in the church, and the women tend to children. This is something traiditional of most all churches, and has always been Catholic order. Nuns traditionally teach, guide and discipline children, and the priests lead their parishes altogether.
In the same way, the husband leads the household, and the woman keeps after the children. This is the natural, kosher order of a Godly house, whether it be a home or a church.
You see this go all the way back to the very foundation of Abrahamic religion- Abraham himself. The mothers of Abraham's children, Isaac and Ishmael, took care of them and the home while he took the reigns of not just his house, but his whole village.
The Bible is utterly complete on this matter. To deny it is really to deny the religion.
In the same way, the husband leads the household, and the woman keeps after the children. This is the natural, kosher order of a Godly house, whether it be a home or a church.
You see this go all the way back to the very foundation of Abrahamic religion- Abraham himself. The mothers of Abraham's children, Isaac and Ishmael, took care of them and the home while he took the reigns of not just his house, but his whole village.
The Bible is utterly complete on this matter. To deny it is really to deny the religion.
As long as you are willing to admit that this last statement is utterly complete opinion. Deny the religion? James said that if one fails on any one point of the law, he is guilty of all. Similarily, you are saying that if one has a viewpoint that is controversial and may be wrong bilbically, he is denying his whole religion. Seems a tad legalistic in its exaggerationSilenceInMotion said:
To the rest, I say...
This subject is not as black and white as many feel it is. Though, there can be no doubt that men and women are hard wired differently, and that this allows for an advantage in certain roles that they are built for. Men are initiators. Women are responders. Women can multitask better than men as a rule. Women are far more observant in certain areas, and can more easily see a need.
These are generalizations, but do tell us a thing or two about what mothers and fathers need in order to fulfill their roles. So it is not "rocket surgery". But this thread has gone over the top in many ways. It has fallen into the trap that befalls humanity, which is to lay blame and point the finger at one another.
You see, part of the hard wiring within a woman is the natural desire to submit to a man in relationship. If this is not happening, we need to look at this as a symptom and discover the cause. Laying blame or using a forceful command is no way to deal with a situation. Its just a little too convenient and lazy in my opinion. Although we have a new nature within us (those who are born again), we are still lving in a fleshly body in a fallen world. The assumption that a Christian should have it all together is just plain denial. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is a reson the Holy Spirit is a counselor. Prayer and support will go a long way toward healing a troubled marriage. Finger pointing will do the opposite. It builds walls.
I find it sad that many in Christianity have such a hard time letting go of the old covenant mentality of judgment and condemnation.
That mentality is thriving to the detriment of our religion. The world runs away from its stench. In many cases, they do not run from God, but from rejection......just saying..... smile ^_^
So men should have their own discussion site so SOME men can slander women in private,
(there have been some spiritually mature men who have replied, and i thank you)
So instead of showing their true (rotten) fruits before all the church they want to hide behind other men like themselves and not have to read replies from women that convict them of their slander and prejudice of women.
I have pointed out that some of the men have have claimed all women are controlling, play the blame game, act persecuted, no women who has replied has made such all or nothing slander towards men, we have agreed feminism has entered many church's, we have agreed many women do not submit appropriately to their husbands....BUT as soon as we point out their misjudgment or lack of spiritual knowledge in the area we are discussing, we get told we are critizing and judging....NO....we are encouraging and giving mature wisdom from the Holy Spirit and experience
I see a young man ( Stephan) who thinks he knows everything, and does not need to humble himself and learn from the experienced and mature Christian...then I witness another man (silenceInMotion) speak of women in such all or nothing degrading accusations of women...even claim women should only care for children in the church....I do not read this in scripture...
This is the reason feminism was created, becauses of the demeaning ways women are stereotyped
(there have been some spiritually mature men who have replied, and i thank you)
So instead of showing their true (rotten) fruits before all the church they want to hide behind other men like themselves and not have to read replies from women that convict them of their slander and prejudice of women.
I have pointed out that some of the men have have claimed all women are controlling, play the blame game, act persecuted, no women who has replied has made such all or nothing slander towards men, we have agreed feminism has entered many church's, we have agreed many women do not submit appropriately to their husbands....BUT as soon as we point out their misjudgment or lack of spiritual knowledge in the area we are discussing, we get told we are critizing and judging....NO....we are encouraging and giving mature wisdom from the Holy Spirit and experience
I see a young man ( Stephan) who thinks he knows everything, and does not need to humble himself and learn from the experienced and mature Christian...then I witness another man (silenceInMotion) speak of women in such all or nothing degrading accusations of women...even claim women should only care for children in the church....I do not read this in scripture...
This is the reason feminism was created, becauses of the demeaning ways women are stereotyped
I am not making a case from scripture, or that one is entirely to blame be it the man or the woman.
But my personal observation across the board and knowing both husdand and wife, marrages that appear to go the distance today are the result of men that don't argue or disagree with their wife's no matter what he may think otherwise. When I talk to these men, they all agree with me that this is a keystone of their successful marrage.
But my personal observation across the board and knowing both husdand and wife, marrages that appear to go the distance today are the result of men that don't argue or disagree with their wife's no matter what he may think otherwise. When I talk to these men, they all agree with me that this is a keystone of their successful marrage.
How funny, because some of the men say women always play victim, seems the men you hang with are doing the same, blaming the women that they must always be the martyr to have peace.....again the blame game as some have pointed out.Rex said:
WE ARE TO SUBMIT TO EACH OTHER
21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. (Ephesians 5). WHY....for CHRIST...not because my husband wants to watch the game and I will not let him....if Christ is not the head we get these immature accusations from Christians that are not eating solid biblical food, but still need to be nursed as babies...the church is bottle fed from the pulpits for they are more concerned for the unbeliever in the pew, than for those who are truly in need of food from the holy scriptures.
Women are called to respect their husbands, how can they do this if the man is not being a spiritual leader like you just suggested? These men are not leading, they are cowering like puppies....wow.
Seems men and women and not submitting to God, for when this happens all other spiritual things fall inline.
I'm not going to testify to myself but my son could surly tell you who the Spiritual leader is.Ruth said:
Yep thats why I'm not married, nor will ever be again.
Their not cowering there are sever penalties for men including separation from children as well as loss of financial security. That's just the way the law operates. If the wife chooses to be a b!ch the law provides her big stick, simple fact. The laws are written in such a way that today your wife could be sleeping with your best friend, and guess what, the cheated on husband is still going to be the looser.
A young man today that chooses to get married and have children better tow the line to his wifes song or he may end up like me.
Married in 82 she divorced me in 87, took 5 years to get my son back he was 10. My son is now 30 I've been trying to pay back 9.000 in child support for 25 years, to this very day I still owe 8,000. I've paid over 15,000, interest, you know what I'm talking about? Haven't had an income tax check since 1987.
I suppose my crime is I'm poor and can't get my hands on 10,000 to get them off my back, the same institution that has made my life more difficult says she owes me nothing, even though I raised him myself from 10 - 18.
My advice to young men, be very careful, it's not just a biblical principle but the law will punish you If you don't act like the husbands I described above. Just like the proverb says, a bad woman is a trap and a snare, the law has provided her a lovely trap,
Yes Selene no one has a gun to women's heads, quite the contrary it's the law that lets a woman hold a gun to the mans head when shes pregnant.
And whether you claim to not be a feminist all women have benefited from the feminist movement.
And by the wat Ruth I don't watch sports, I could care less whos playing or winning or lossing.Selene said:
I notice your frequent reference threw-out this thread.
Hate to hear what you're going though. You do have something to be thankful about, though - you don't live in Florida with its lifetime alimony. Some horror stories: http://floridaalimonyreform.com/pdf/florida_alimony_horror_stories.pdfRex said:
Exactly. Somebody who posts a thread on marriage and says he doesn't want to get married is in denial.Axehead said:Wow. You sound like you need to be in authority some place. "You're not paying attention". After you have been married for about 10 years, come back and let's talk. And yes, you are going to get married you just don't know it yet. But I do.
Not to worry from the day of his birth my son was and is the most important priority of this world, nothing was going to keep he from providing and being a part of his life. The greatest thing I hope to leave him is a measure of the spirit that he has watched me walk. I'm not one much for blood lines but the survival of my family's name rested on my shoulders, and now on his. I don't know that I'll ever be a grand father. He has no problem attracting pretty girls, he love kids but he also knows the cost of my battle for him. The cost could have been higher but I would have walk the valley for him, I'll never regret fighting for whats right. praise God he's cut from the same cloth.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Apparently the Lord is looking over him, twice he's escaped a woman's snare. I grew up the hard road my mission has always been to spare him the road I've walked even though it's what made me who I am in Christ.
I been standing in the refiners furnace most all my life, and by the grace of my Lord I'll come out not even smelling of smoke.
The years we have had together can't be measured by a few dollars, my hands are clean, though I still suffer.
Do be sorry for me but rejoice, I rest in peace, though my boat is racked by waves.
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