Word Study

[reformed1689]

A fallacy. You are here to push a religious agenda that supports the carnal man in his sins. Anybody with an ounce of discernment can see that. And you will spare no one in doing so.

Strawman, more false witness.

Just look at the patience of John Caldwell in your rantings...even making a whole thread to discredit his wisdom.

Wisdom? False teaching.

A strawman. You need more bible instruction than many. You should come here to learn...not teach.

That is your opinion. Not everyone shares that opinion.

Listen to the much wiser brother John Caldwell...you could learn a thing or two...or three.

I don't consider him wise. Why are you even bringing him into this?

 

[Episkopos]

Strawman, more false witness.

Wisdom? False teaching.

That is your opinion. Not everyone shares that opinion.

I don't consider him wise. Why are you even bringing him into this?

You fail in your own choice of comparison...and you don't even see it.

Ah, youth these days..

 

[reformed1689]

You fail in your own choice of comparison...and you don't even see it.

Ah, youth these days..

Why are you bringing Caldwell into this? He has nothing to do with this conversation. Your true colors are showing. You have no interest in honest debate.

 

[marks]

I'm not smokescreening everything. I am pointing out logical fallacies. You do know what those are right? How am I defending my flesh? More strawman, more false witness. You and @CharismaticLady have both argued for sinless lives after salvation, but when pressed and forced you then say you never said you don't sin. Quite convenient.

Hi David,

I think @CharismaticLady has not asserted sinlessness, rather, that there are deadly sins Christians do not commit, but others sins considered transgressions, such things as were covered by sacrifice under the OT Law, that Christians may still commit.

@Episkopos , on the other hand, I believe you've got it right. That he teaches the person who is "in Chirst" will live completely sinlessly, even experiencing by the physical senses the celestial realm in some sort overlayed onto this realm, though he himself does not claim to live this way, but claims to have done so in the past.

I think there is a dramatic difference in their points of view, one being that some minor commission of sin may occur in someone who is in Christ, the other that since "in Christ is no sin", any commission of sin is because someone is not "in Christ".

Considering that the blessings of salvation are "in Christ", we are a new creation "in Christ", and so on, not being "in Christ" is not being born again, not having adoption as sons, these are really very different points of view.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

I think @CharismaticLady has not asserted sinlessness, rather, that there are deadly sins Christians do not commit, but others sins considered transgressions, such things as were covered by sacrifice under the OT Law, that Christians may still commit.

She has argued both ways.

 

[Episkopos]

Many will deny the power of the life in Jesus...especially in these perilous times...and all this does is bar them from entering into God's rest.

I think Charismatic Lady has found a proximity with the Lord that keeps her pure from sin.

Amen and thanks be to God that faithful followers are still among us.

My own experience is that I have flown very high...and my lack of maturity in that height caused me to hit the wall. so to speak. So I fell back to earth...like Icarus. But I have known a very intimate walk in the light...in the resurrection power of Jesus Christ. They who testify of this grace over sin do so because that is the experience of life in Christ. The power of the life to come.

People vainly argue scriptures without any experience of these...pure human intellectual theories based on a purely human experience...no time with Christ in Zion. But the gospel is about power. It is about life and intimacy in the presence of the living God.

And all the biblical testimony attests to this.

I invite people who are interested in the actual provision of God to y thread on competing in the games!
peace

 

[Nondenom40]

Hi David,

I think @CharismaticLady has not asserted sinlessness, rather, that there are deadly sins Christians do not commit, but others sins considered transgressions, such things as were covered by sacrifice under the OT Law, that Christians may still commit.

@Episkopos , on the other hand, I believe you've got it right. That he teaches the person who is "in Chirst" will live completely sinlessly, even experiencing by the physical senses the celestial realm in some sort overlayed onto this realm, though he himself does not claim to live this way, but claims to have done so in the past.

I think there is a dramatic difference in their points of view, one being that some minor commission of sin may occur in someone who is in Christ, the other that since "in Christ is no sin", any commission of sin is because someone is not "in Christ".

Considering that the blessings of salvation are "in Christ", we are a new creation "in Christ", and so on, not being "in Christ" is not being born again, not having adoption as sons, these are really very different points of view.

Much love!

I'm not going to dissect every point here. Suffice it to say that i think some people here are not applying what the bible says here properly. First it seems there is this approach by some that there are greater and lesser sins. In Gods eyes there isn't. "Some minor commission of sin...." doesn't make any sense to me. Here are a few biblically based facts;

1. Born again believers sin: James 1:14-15
2. When we do sin we have a way to get right with God: 1 John 1:9
3. The penalty of our sin is nailed to the cross (believers): Col 2:14
4. When we are tempted God has provided a way to escape...i.e. not sin: 1 Cor 10:13
5. Believers are free from the power of sin, those bonds were broken: Mark 10:45

We don't practice or live in sin. Its not habitual like before we were saved. But we still sin, confess and move on. Thats what sanctification is. Growing in Christ is keeping our eyes on Him and less on the world.

 

[John Caldwell]

You fail in your own choice of comparison...and you don't even see it.

Ah, youth these days..

I think you hit the nail on the head. @David Taylor doesn't see it. He does not understand. More, IMHO, is he is not equipped to understand.

He has chosen those under whom he will be disciples and is unable to discuss theological differences because he cannot defend his own positions (he dies not grasp the reasons others disagree with him or the reasoning and presuppositions behind his own theories.

This was proven in his replies to me. He ffers verses that he believe implies his conclusion but cannot answer as to why.

My experience with indoctrinated persons is it is best to simply ignore their posts and pray they will eventually mature. Some will, some won't.

I have a bit of sympathy for David because I was once in his shoes. If God did not convict me with my own words I do not know that anyone else could have broken through.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Oops! I'm not up to this debate today. Maybe later.

Have a blessed Thanksgiving, y'all!

 

[Episkopos]

I think you hit the nail on the head. @David Taylor doesn't see it. He dies not understand. More, IMHO, is he equipped to understand.

He has chosen those under whom he will be disciples and is unable to discuss theological differences because he cannot defend his own positions (he dies not grasp the reasons others disagree with him or the reasoning and presuppositions behind his own theories.

This was proven in his replies to me. He ffers verses that he believe implies his conclusion but cannot answer as to why.

My experience with indoctrinated persons is it is best to simply ignore their posts and pray they will eventually mature. Some will, some won't.

I have a bit of sympathy for David because I was once in his shoes. If God did not convict me with my own words I do not know that anyone else could have broken through.

You are a wise brother John. Happy you are here. Continue to post as we strive together for the faith that was given to us from the Lord.

 

[reformed1689]

I think you hit the nail on the head. @David Taylor doesn't see it. He dies not understand. More, IMHO, is he equipped to understand.

He has chosen those under whom he will be disciples and is unable to discuss theological differences because he cannot defend his own positions (he dies not grasp the reasons others disagree with him or the reasoning and presuppositions behind his own theories.

This was proven in his replies to me. He ffers verses that he believe implies his conclusion but cannot answer as to why.

My experience with indoctrinated persons is it is best to simply ignore their posts and pray they will eventually mature. Some will, some won't.

I have a bit of sympathy for David because I was once in his shoes. If God did not convict me with my own words I do not know that anyone else could have broken through.

I don't want or need pity of false teachers.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Was Jesus a "blowhard" when he called self-righteous contradicting Pharisees a brood of vipers?

I've never contradicted myself. As I said, I know what the Word says, and I know what I'm saying.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I would say most of our sins are willful sins.

James 1
14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires. 15 Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.

Sounds willful to me.

Yes, when you let it get past temptation for any length of time. Don't let it. "Resist the devil and he will flee."

 

[Preacher4Truth]

More strawman. You are sinning right now by bearing false witness.

Agreed, this is his m.o. on here daily. Propagate self, ridicule others, bear false witness. Luke 18:9-14 in action.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi David,

I think @CharismaticLady has not asserted sinlessness, rather, that there are deadly sins Christians do not commit, but others sins considered transgressions, such things as were covered by sacrifice under the OT Law, that Christians may still commit.

@Episkopos , on the other hand, I believe you've got it right. That he teaches the person who is "in Chirst" will live completely sinlessly, even experiencing by the physical senses the celestial realm in some sort overlayed onto this realm, though he himself does not claim to live this way, but claims to have done so in the past.

I think there is a dramatic difference in their points of view, one being that some minor commission of sin may occur in someone who is in Christ, the other that since "in Christ is no sin", any commission of sin is because someone is not "in Christ".

Considering that the blessings of salvation are "in Christ", we are a new creation "in Christ", and so on, not being "in Christ" is not being born again, not having adoption as sons, these are really very different points of view.

Much love!

@David Taylor sees that I have taught both ways, and he's right. @Episkopos and I have both reached partaking of the divine nature, but as a teacher, there are some that haven't even added virtue to their faith yet, let alone to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. David hasn't wanted knowledge, and has no self-control, etc. I teach baby steps with them, just first undoing their false doctrines based on misinterpretations; but can discuss more advanced theology with Episkopos. And you too.

 

[reformed1689]

@David Taylor sees that I have taught both ways, and he's right. @Episkopos and I have both reached partaking of the divine nature, but as a teacher, there are some that haven't even added virtue to their faith yet, let alone to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. David hasn't wanted knowledge, and has no self-control, etc. I teach baby steps with them, just first undoing their false doctrines based on misinterpretations; but can discuss more advanced theology with Episkopos. And you too.

Yeah, ok.

 

[marks]

@David Taylor sees that I have taught both ways, and he's right. @Episkopos and I have both reached partaking of the divine nature, but as a teacher, there are some that haven't even added virtue to their faith yet, let alone to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. David hasn't wanted knowledge, and has no self-control, etc. I teach baby steps with them, just first undoing their false doctrines based on misinterpretations; but can discuss more advanced theology with Episkopos. And you too.

I see. Thank you for clarification!

I'm curious how much of his doctrine you share. It seems to me that both of you see things very differently.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@David Taylor sees that I have taught both ways, and he's right. @Episkopos and I have both reached partaking of the divine nature, but as a teacher, there are some that haven't even added virtue to their faith yet, let alone to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. David hasn't wanted knowledge, and has no self-control, etc. I teach baby steps with them, just first undoing their false doctrines based on misinterpretations; but can discuss more advanced theology with Episkopos. And you too.

So does this mean that you do believe you reach a steady state of sinlessness while living in these flesh bodies?

 

[John Caldwell]

@David Taylor sees that I have taught both ways, and he's right. @Episkopos and I have both reached partaking of the divine nature, but as a teacher, there are some that haven't even added virtue to their faith yet, let alone to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. David hasn't wanted knowledge, and has no self-control, etc. I teach baby steps with them, just first undoing their false doctrines based on misinterpretations; but can discuss more advanced theology with Episkopos. And you too.

@David Taylor cannot see outside of the theories he has been taught, so do not take it personally.

He reminds me of many (including myself) within evangelical Christianity (especially Baptists) who were brought into a very loose tradition. At some point (for those who study) seams start to show and these folks become one of the "isms" in an attempt to repair their loose threads. Out of these many become either Calvinistic (anti-non-Calvinistic) or anti-Calvinistic and feed on materials from their chosen sect. Some end up seeing the deeper flaw and move to a closer and more traditional soteriological understanding. Others dig in and become warriors for their camp.

Sometimes you just have to pretend the emperor is wearing clothes and let him figure it out by himself.

Many (myself included) were once in his place and apart from the work of the Spirit would never be convinced to consider just how much of our beliefs were theories and how many of those were wrong. He deserves our pity, I suppose, more than anything.

If he ever decides to bend the knee to Scripture he will face a difficult task of revising many of his current theories. To be honest, I thought twice when I realized the presuppositions in Penal Substitution Theory because I was comfortable and very well studied in my tradition. But before anything can be accomplished in terms of biblical literacy, @David Taylor will have to be able to identify what part of his beliefs are in fact divine revelation and what parts are David. Until this step occurs he will be his own "god" so to speak (not questioning his salvation but pitying his blindness).

What we can do is glory in God, that God can still use @David Taylor despite his error to reach people with the gospel. Sometimes people are saved not through what is taught but despite the falseness because the true gospel shines through.

 

[reformed1689]

@David Taylor cannot see outside of the theories he has been taught, so do not take it personally.

This is false considering I was not taught all of the theories I now hold to.

Some end up seeing the deeper flaw and move to a closer and more traditional soteriological understanding.

What a "superior" attitude. I see flaws in your soteriological understanding so we are at an impasse.

Others dig in and become warriors for their camp.

I only champion Scripture.

Many (myself included) were once in his place and apart from the work of the Spirit would never be convinced to consider just how much of our beliefs were theories and how many of those were wrong. He deserves our pity, I suppose, more than anything.

Don't need, or want, your pity.

If he ever decides to bend the knee to Scripture he will face a difficult task of revising many of his current theories.

My beliefs come straight from Scripture.

But before anything can be accomplished in terms of biblical literacy, @David Taylor will have to be able to identify what part of his beliefs are in fact divine revelation and what parts are David.

Again, I have shown that Scripture is clear.

Until this step occurs he will be his own "god" so to speak (not questioning his salvation but pitying his blindness).

More ad hominem.