WWJD with LGBTQ?

[VictoryinJesus]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

I think He loves them and died for them while they were yet sinners. Same as He did, died, for all while they were yet sinners. Yes, pride is a hindrance I think. But it isn’t only pride parades but also the Pharisees and religious did their own pride parades in being so pumped up over their religious status yet others they saw as not measuring up to their goodness. Pride parades come in many forms. Any can be doing a pride parade and not even know it while condemning the pride parades: by condemning the pride parade they condemn themselves knowing pride for sin is wrong. See, parading pridefully in “don’t stand near me. I’m more holy than you.” I do think God hands any and all over to a reprobate mind that they may learn not to blasphemy God. But I also think a reprobate mind comes in many forms and is not only “gays” but all who blasphemy God. There’s an angst and conflict I see that we can say when asked how we are doing “better than I deserve. I’m just a sinner saved by grace.” Yet to the gay there is not grace allowed. The contradiction being we are accepted in our sin while others are not. We put high unreachable standards on others that we ourself can’t even do …aside from the mercy given of God to call the things that now are, as though they are not.

 

[St. SteVen]

Gods definition of marriage was in the beginning ...

Matt 19: 4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

I'm glad you brought up Matthew chapter 19.
It contains a perfect example of what I am saying about
how we imprint our western values on the Bible.

What does the church say is the ONLY grounds for divorce? Adultery, right?
Compare Matthew 19:9 in both the NIV with the KJV below. Notice anything different? (fornication)
Jesus said "except it be for fornication, not adultery. (as the church claims)
The NIV gets this wrong, the KJV gets this right. Check the NT Greek.

See Deuteronomy 22:13-18 below to see what the law says about this.
This is what Jesus was referring to.

All this to say that our western Christian social views do not always coincide with the Bible.
Notice that the bride is treated like bad merchandise in Deuteronomy 22:13-18. Property of her parents.

But we happily run over to Leviticus 20:13 and grab
the word "abomination" when it suits our purposes.

Matthew 19:9 NIV
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 19:9 KJV
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Deuteronomy 22:13-18 NIV
If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her
14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying,
“I married this woman, but when I approached her,
I did not find proof of her virginity,”
15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring
to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.
16 Her father will say to the elders,
“I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her.
17 Now he has slandered her and said,
‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’
But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.”
Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town,
18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Influencing kids to choose their sex at a young age, sets them up for operations which will permanently disable their ability to procreate ( before they realize their error).

At the same time fertility rates among heterosexual couples has dropped significantly.
But there seem to be enough adoptable children available to further family life.
Here's a testimony to that point.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Yet to the gay there is not grace allowed.

Thank you.
That's the whole point of this topic.

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm glad you brought up Matthew chapter 19.
It contains a perfect example of what I am saying about
how we imprint our western values on the Bible.

What does the church say is the ONLY grounds for divorce? Adultery, right?
Compare Matthew 19:9 in both the NIV with the KJV below. Notice anything different? (fornication)
Jesus said "except it be for fornication, not adultery. (as the church claims)
The NIV gets this wrong, the KJV gets this right. Check the NT Greek.

See Deuteronomy 22:13-18 below to see what the law says about this.
This is what Jesus was referring to.

All this to say that our western Christian social views do not always coincide with the Bible.
Notice that the bride is treated like bad merchandise in Deuteronomy 22:13-18. Property of her parents.

But we happily run over to Leviticus 20:13 and grab
the word "abomination" when it suits our purposes.

Matthew 19:9 NIV
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,
and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Matthew 19:9 KJV
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Deuteronomy 22:13-18 NIV
If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her
14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying,
“I married this woman, but when I approached her,
I did not find proof of her virginity,”
15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring
to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin.
16 Her father will say to the elders,
“I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her.
17 Now he has slandered her and said,
‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’
But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.”
Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town,
18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him.

/

God said that particular sexual sin was an abomination.

there is a reason he separated this one particular sexual sin from all the rest (have you read the passage)

Gen 2 is God plan for marriage.. he did not change his plan..

 

[Behold]

My own wake-up call came

Your wake up call is going to come when you realize that your "lets all play nice with alt sex perverts", ..is anti-God, theology and anti-NT theology.

LIsten..

Christians are not "showing the love of Christ" IF and WHEN they tolerate what God, does not.

Figure that out, @St. SteVen

See, you are one of those who does not understand that loving the sinner does not include tolerating their sin "in the Church", according to your "click bait" Thread.

 

[St. SteVen]

God said that particular sexual sin was an abomination.

there is a reason he separated this one particular sexual sin from all the rest (have you read the passage)

Gen 2 is God plan for marriage.. he did not change his plan..

I think you are you imposing a predetermined view on the scripture. "Proof-texting".

The church has cherry-picked the passages to support their view and have ignored others.
Did you read my post #22 ?

Why don't we OBEY Jesus by enforcing the fornication rule on marriage/divorce?
Why do we DISOBEY Jesus by supporting adultery as an acceptable reason for divorce?
Adultery is grounds for FORGIVENESS, not grounds for DIVORCE.

/

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you.
That's the whole point of this topic.

/

It makes me think of the verse on putting the bottle to your brother’s mouth so he’ll drink so you can expose his shame. There is some truth in loving to (lusting after to) point out another’s shame to use it to cover up our own shame. To me it’s significant that’s also a parade of pride. An example…I go to the forth of July fair with my grandchildren and standing in the middle is a parade of pride with bullhorns shouting how homosexuals are going to burn in hell. Or up on the street corner up town. It’s boasted as being love for the homosexual in warning them but I don’t see it that way but instead as getting High(like a drug)and prideful on self in the midst of a crowd as if your something you are not…To me that is all it is …a parade of pride. Yet in the same breathe we sneer and tilt our noses at pride parades. Hopefully it isn’t misunderstood as my condoning pride parades. When the two are just alike: standing on the street corner to be seen and the parades of pride. There is something significant in the point of seeing it’s all pride. Making one no better than the other. To me it’s not to condemn one or the other but to get real that in our need for grace and mercy for our prideful ways, we should also extend grace and mercy. Seeing both as prideful (Imo) helps us bring down our own vain imaginations in assuming we don’t practice what we preach against as a pride parade. …if we go back to Noah getting drunk and his sons one wanting to get him baked (I mean naked)and the others trying to cover his nakedness. We assume it was an “homosexual” act of wanting to look at noah’s body naked. If we want to get another brother naked so we can look on their nakedness…it may be homosexual in a way that is different but still an intimate “undressing” of another. To be blunt…(imo) we have to be careful we don’t get off on undressing others.”let me look on you” Is that too blunt? I don’t mean sexually but wanting to expose their nakedness. Because that is what sometimes “the heavy desire” and “lust” is in the middle of the forth of July “come here you homosexuals so we can expose your nakedness and look at it” and “it will make us feel good” …perverse (to a whole other level) yea?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

At the same time fertility rates among heterosexual couples has dropped significantly.
But there seem to be enough adoptable children available to further family life.
Here's a testimony to that point.

/

Gay parenting is a perverted societal construct, a sign of the times. These kids will certainly be cared for financially, the parents will protect their interests, encourage them in many ways, protect them from harm ... But the child will suffer from the absence of a healthy loving parental upbringing with male/ female role models and a God-fearing, Christian home. They will surely be misguided and confused about their purpose in life, their sexual identity. I am not a psychologist, nor a pastor, but I am sure this upbringing is detrimental to the child.
I watched part if the video to the section where these lesbian applicants were asked, "How can you substitute the child's need for a father?" She answered with, We will do tue same activities that men do, sports, computers, ... male prone activities. Even Dr. LAURA used to say, "A woman cannot teach a boy to become a man." Nor can a woman pretend to be a man, to pass on a false male role model to a child.
Absence of father creates all sorts if problems in a child. Actually 95% of homosexuals suffered from this "absence of father" syndrome which led them to find a replacement ... another boy or man. They may have a Dad, but he wasn't around, nor did they gave a good relationship with him.
Let me add that 70% of inner city kids are fatherless and so this leads them into a troubled life, crime, etc.

 

[amadeus]

He wouldn't tolerate their sin I can tell you that.

Does Jesus tolerate anyone's sin?

 

[St. SteVen]

There is something significant in the point of seeing it’s all pride. Making one no better than the other.

I agree.

To me it’s not to condemn one or the other but to get real that in our need for grace and mercy for our prideful ways, we should also extend grace and mercy.

Exactly.
Thanks for participating in this topic. I appreciate it.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Gay parenting is a perverted societal construct, a sign of the times. These kids will certainly be cared for financially, the parents will protect their interests, encourage them in many ways, protect them from harm ... But the child will suffer from the absence of a healthy loving parental upbringing with male/ female role models and a God-fearing, Christian home. They will surely be misguided and confused about their purpose in life, their sexual identity. I am not a psychologist, nor a pastor, but I am sure this upbringing is detrimental to the child.

So... you weren't brave enough to watch the video? Is that what you are saying? (all this was covered)

/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you are you imposing a predetermined view on the scripture. "Proof-texting".

The church has cherry-picked the passages to support their view and have ignored others.
Did you read my post #22 ?

Why don't we OBEY Jesus by enforcing the fornication rule on marriage/divorce?
Why do we DISOBEY Jesus by supporting adultery as an acceptable reason for divorce?
Adultery is grounds for FORGIVENESS, not grounds for DIVORCE.

/

All I am doing is stating what the word says.

I am not sure why you are trying to compair divorce with a man sleeping with a man as he would a woman (gay sex) which he called an abomination..

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So... you weren't brave enough to watch the video? Is that what you are saying? (all this was covered)

/

What, you think I'm a frightened homophobe? LOL. No I know where she was going ... justifying her case as all liberals do. She likely had a bad relationship with her Dad, nor does have any God consciousness. Are you afraid to admit she and her partner are lost souls??? In their case it will just be the blind guiding the blind.
Mommy1 and Mommy2 are lost and will eventually fall into the pit, the Lake of Fire! But until then, they will care for and teach the child their warped sense of reality and likely that child will follow them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

All I am doing is stating what the word says.

I am not sure why you are trying to compair divorce with a man sleeping with a man as he would a woman (gay sex) which he called an abomination..

The way I read it is one sin is no greater than the other but it’s all alike and leads to death.. For example you can keep the big things but sin in one little area and therefore you are guilty of it all. And to be careful what you condemn others of, for in doing so you condemn yourself? But we say there is no comparison in divorce and homosexuality when both distorts what we claim marriage represents…which is a union. So if homosexuality is against that union. Isn’t divorce against that union as well? Could be wrong but I think that is what is meant by cherry picking…

 

[BlessedPeace]

WWJD? What we are told God does to all unrepentant sinners.

 

[Lambano]

He would have the same reaction as He did with the crowd who wanted to stone the (adulterous woman):

You mean, “Neither do I condemn thee”?

Somehow that sentence got left out of the quote.

We’re not told if she quit sleeping around after that. I surmise that’s between her and God.

I don’t know about you, but I got enough stuff of my own that Jesus will hold me accountable for at the Judgement.

 

[St. SteVen]

What, you think I'm a frightened homophobe? LOL. No I know where she was going ... justifying her case as all liberals do. She likely had a bad relationship with her Dad, nor does have any God consciousness. Are you afraid to admit she and her partner are lost souls??? In their case it will just be the blind guiding the blind.
Mommy1 and Mommy2 are lost and will eventually fall into the pit, the Lake of Fire! But until then, they will care for and teach the child their warped sense of reality and likely that child will follow them.

Rush to judgment?
How was your relationship with your Dad?
Was he an Infernalist too? (warped sense of reality)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

All I am doing is stating what the word says.

I am not sure why you are trying to compair divorce with a man sleeping with a man as he would a woman (gay sex) which he called an abomination..

I asked you... "Did you read my post #22 ?"
Apparently not.

"... our western Christian social views do not always coincide with the Bible.
Notice that the bride is treated like bad merchandise in Deuteronomy 22:13-18. Property of her parents."

"But we happily run over to Leviticus 20:13 and grab
the word "abomination" when it suits our purposes. "

For the FULL explanation see post #22.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

WWJD? What we are told God does to all unrepentant sinners.

Did you read the OP? (opening post)
Or is this yet another response to the title instead?

Here's what Jesus does to all unrepentant sinners.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

/