Yahweh Sends Yahweh

[stunnedbygrace]

So then…which of those two quotes of yours do you believe…?

 

[True Faith]

Umm…this is odd…to state that John does not say Jesus is God here: “And John 1:1 does not say that Jesus was God Himself” (that’s a quote of you).

And then to say this: “John 1:1 clearly states that Jesus is God Himself.” (That’s also a quote of you).

Not sure how to reconcile both your quotes there…

There is absolutely no Scripture to be found anywhere in the Bible that will ever tell you that God would ever tell a lie... nor that Jesus is God Himself...

If anyone tells you that Jesus is God and cannot answer "Whose will did God Himself came down from heaven to do, if not his own?" they are telling you a lie and trying to deceive you...

 

[True Faith]

So then…which of those two quotes of yours do you believe…?

John 1:1 does not say refer to Jesus at all... period... if it did then that would make God Himself out to be a liar...

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

John is talking about Jesus. He calls Jesus the word, the light that was before the sun and moon, the lamb. English comprehension of the passage shows that He is talking about Jesus in the entire passage. Even if there might be some confusion of mind, that John is talking about Jesus is not one of those confusions if you are an English speaker reading the passage.

this person is clearly either a Jehovah's Witness or Unitarian, or another who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, and the Trinity. Who likes to argue even when wrong!

best to ignore

 

[True Faith]

So then…which of those two quotes of yours do you believe…?

Having spent from the age of 13 to the age of 40 as a true Trinitarian, I know the lies they teach very well and the methods they will use to try and convince a person to ignore scripture...

The Question I have posited directly refutes the entire Trinity Doctrine because you cannot answer it with our removing Jesus from being God Himself...

There is no proof in scripture to be found that will validate Jesus being God Himself without making God Himself out to be a liar....

 

[True Faith]

this person is clearly either a Jehovah's Witness or Unitarian, or another who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, and the Trinity. Who likes to argue even when wrong!

best to ignore

No where in the Doctrine does it say that Christ had deity at all... Divinity yes, deity not one place..

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Boy howdy…
So…what did John mean (to you) when he said, “and the word was God.”

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Having spent from the age of 13 to the age of 40 as a true Trinitarian, I know the lies they teach very well and the methods they will use to try and convince a person to ignore scripture...

The Question I have posited directly refutes the entire Trinity Doctrine because you cannot answer it with our removing Jesus from being God Himself...

There is no proof in scripture to be found that will validate Jesus being God Himself without making God Himself out to be a liar....

Okay well, why do they worship the Lamb in revelation and no one corrects them and God doesn’t strike anyone dead for worshiping someone other than Himself?

 

[True Faith]

they are honoring the lamb not worshiping him... two different meanings....
Show me where "Λατρεία" is in revelation... that is the word used to express the meaning to worship as if they were God...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

they are honoring the lamb not worshiping him

My translation says “worship.” Do you think it’s been…corrupted? I find it in every translation I pull up.

 

[True Faith]

προσεκύνησαν means to pay homage to, to honor or respect...
Λατρεία means to worship someone as if they were God himself...

 

[True Faith]

My translation says “worship.” Do you think it’s been…corrupted? I find it in every translation I pull up.

they will always say worship means different things depending on the greek word use ...
I gave you the examples already and their meanings

 

[stunnedbygrace]

they are honoring the lamb not worshiping him... two different meanings....
Show me where "Λατρεία" is in revelation... that is the word used to express the meaning to worship as if they were God...

To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

 

[True Faith]

My translation says “worship.” Do you think it’s been…corrupted? I find it in every translation I pull up.

You see it is quite simple.. the word προσεκύνησαν means to honor or pay homage to, respect... this is the word that is used in Revelation....

If they were to mean that he worshiped him as if he were God Himself they would have used the word Λατρεία... to which it is only used in scripture about 3 times...

 

[True Faith]

To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

and??? show me worship as if he were God Himself...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

and??? show me worship as if he were God Himself...

hmm…okay, then try these ones:

And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!”

Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

Some of the women were going to tell the disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them. When they realized it was He, they “came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him”

Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

 

[Episkopos]

not really, in verse 5 it reads, "the Lord (’ă·ḏō·nāy) at Your Right-Hand", which is "la·ḏō·nî" in verse 1.

However, in about 20 Hebrew MT manuscripts, which have nothing to do with the Christian Church, verse 5 reads, not "’ă·ḏō·nāy", but, "Yah·weh", which is literally, "Yah·weh at Your Right-Hand", which makes verse 1, "Yah·weh said to Yah·weh". Dr Adam Clarke in his commeantary says, that there is one Hebrew manscript that reads in verse 1 "Yah·weh", instead of "la·ḏō·nî"

Clearly this has been tampered with

The standard Jewish Bible is the MT...Masoretic text. The most complete being the Aleppo scroll. All Jewish Bibles have the same text. The only real differences come from the DSS (Dead Sea Scrolls) which indeed show some deviations.

The standard is not a Christian one but a Jewish one.

Also there is no way in Hebrew to say..."My Yahweh." Yahweh is a family name for the duality that is the Father and the Son. Jesus came to us in His Father's name. The Lord said to my Lord...may sound a certain way in translation...but it should say maybe "Yahweh said to my Lord..."

 

[True Faith]

hmm…okay, then try these ones:

And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!”

Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

Some of the women were going to tell the disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them. When they realized it was He, they “came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him”

Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’”

noting that it says "God's Son" does not say "Certainly you are God"

"and let all the angels of God worship him" worship -προσκυνησάτωσαν= honor and respect pay homage not Λατρεία which means to worship as if he were God Himself...

"Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him." worship -προσκυνῆσαι= honor and respect pay homage not Λατρεία which means to worship as if he were God Himself...

as for Thomas he wasn't calling Jesus God at all... if he were calling Jesus God then he would have believed God Himself to be a liar...

 

[heartwashed]

προσκυνέω is the word used in Hebrews 1:6, for "worship".

προσκυνέω
Transliteration
proskyneō πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand)
.

 

[True Faith]

προσκυνέω is the word used in Hebrews 1:6, for "worship".

προσκυνέω
Transliteration
proskyneō πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand)
.

you should really get your an actual lexicon...