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VictoryinJesus

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. If you have no joy you have no happiness

Joy is similar to peace...one can be taken away by circumstance. the other can not be taken away as it is not dependent upon circumstance or things temporary, but of God. “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you.” John 14:27

John 16:19-24 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? [20] Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. [21] A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. [22] And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. [23] And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. [24] Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

What was the joy set before Him?

What really gets me most about what is being said is ...if you lack certain perks in the world then you lack Christ. If you lack certain things which are temporary then you lack Faith. Therefore faith is based off of what money, and outward appearances, or size of house, or model of car...and if you don’t possess those things then you lack something making God not sufficient. But instead our things.
 

RainAndIceCream

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Joy is similar to peace...one can be taken away by circumstance. the other can not be taken away as it is not dependent upon circumstance or things temporary, but of God. “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you.” John 14:27

John 16:19-24 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? [20] Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. [21] A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. [22] And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. [23] And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. [24] Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

What was the joy set before Him?

What really gets me most about what is being said is ...if you lack certain perks in the world then you lack Christ. If you lack certain things which are temporary then you lack Faith. Therefore faith is based off of what money, and outward appearances, or size of house, or model of car...and if you don’t possess those things then you lack something making God not sufficient. But instead our things.
I would think that is a pretty succinct synopsis of the prosperity gospel, yes.

There was a skit by the now departed comedian George Carlin, God have mercy, about God and his ten rules. One of the lines George says still cracks me up because every time I think of it. Because I also think of prosperity false doctrine, Joel Osteen and particularly Robert Tilton, whose ministry was exposed and impacted greatly, thank God, by an investigative reporter, Diane Sawyer, years ago.I believe Tilton is now on his future 5th ex-wife.
"There's an invisible man in the sky....AND HE NEEDS MONEY!"
 

RainAndIceCream

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We now interrupt this protracted discussion about buying God's blessings to interject this much needed piece of levity. Enjoy.
JNzPY7.gif
You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I would think that is a pretty succinct synopsis of the prosperity gospel, yes.

There was a skit by the now departed comedian George Carlin, God have mercy, about God and his ten rules. One of the lines George says still cracks me up because every time I think of it. Because I also think of prosperity false doctrine, Joel Osteen and particularly Robert Tilton, whose ministry was exposed and impacted greatly, thank God, by an investigative reporter, Diane Sawyer, years ago.I believe Tilton is now on his future 5th ex-wife.
"There's an invisible man in the sky....AND HE NEEDS MONEY!"

To be fair, I was caught up in the movement for a while but become convinced a man can be physically naked and stripped of everything; yet not lack anything: Faith, Peace and Joy. Jesus Christ is a perfect example. So is Paul.

I’m not suggesting what anyone owns is wrong ...only when those things become a measure to claim another person lacks Faith, Peace or Joy.
 

VictoryinJesus

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We now interrupt this protracted discussion about buying God's blessings to interject this much needed piece of levity. Enjoy.
JNzPY7.gif
You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting.

It is a profound picture, yea? My husband and I went to a bible study one night and the leader asked everyone what we think it means to be raised up with Christ to sit in Heavenly places. I didn’t speak up that night what it means to me, uncertain how it would be received. You don’t have to agree but what it means to me. God (IMO) doesn’t ask what He is not willing to do Himself. To be raised up with Christ to sit in Heavenly places is His storing up His treasure in Heaven ...where moth and rust cannot corrupt nor consume and where thieves do not break through and steal His treasure. Matthew 6:19- ...For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Always heard that last as where my treasure is, there will my heart be also. Not saying that is not still it But heard it a different way tonight: where God’s treasure is, there will God’s heart be also. Would much rather have the heart of God.

“But we have the mind of Christ.”
 

amadeus

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Sick poor people are not happy and cannot help anyone. Think
In 2012 when my pastor's wife was sick in bed suffering great pain many brothers and sisters came to visit her at her bedside. They came to encourage her but they left encouraged. She always had more to give than most and she was always giving it. [It was never money as she did not have any.] This was never more true than during those last few weeks of her life lying sick in her bed. She purposely hid the severity of her pain to most everyone but my wife. She did not want her husband to worry over her more than he already was. When no one else was around she confided in my wife, who in turn confided in me.

She passed away in her sleep at the age of 90 years. [She had pancreatic cancer.] She lived with her husband in a tiny mobile home on church property that sat behind the little church building.

I helped her husband with their finances after she was gone so I know that as the world counts riches they were poor. But like Peter at the Beautiful Gate they were rich in the things of God. They had learned many years before to live according to this verse:


"Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." Phil 4:11

She was content and blessed... and blessed everyone with her life, her words and her music. [She was a wonderful piano player.]

They had been married 66 years when she died. In their ministry they traveled all over the world as well as to most of the states of the United States yet they never had more than one car and they were always making monthly car payments. They would trade their car in a newer one [never brand new] when the old one was wearing out. [Most of their almost continuous travel in the United States was in their car. They only traveled to do God's work.] They only owned Chevys.

She was without doubt one of the richest ladies I ever knew, but it was not because of her bank account...

Give God the glory!
 
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GISMYS_7

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Mark 11:24
Jesus's Words==“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” =====Believers living in the will of God= You can have what you say! Many are content with little and have no interest in prosperity and they have what they desire and say!
 

Nancy

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Joy=happiness! Happiness=joy. If you have no joy you have no happiness

Happiness is an emotion in which we "experience feelings ranging from contentment and satisfaction to bliss and intense pleasure," whereas joy "is a stronger, less common feeling than happiness." We experience joy when we achieve selflessness to the point of personal sacrifice.
 

GISMYS_7

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Happiness is an emotion in which we "experience feelings ranging from contentment and satisfaction to bliss and intense pleasure," whereas joy "is a stronger, less common feeling than happiness." We experience joy when we achieve selflessness to the point of personal sacrifice.
 
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RainAndIceCream

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To be fair, I was caught up in the movement for a while but become convinced a man can be physically naked and stripped of everything; yet not lack anything: Faith, Peace and Joy. Jesus Christ is a perfect example. So is Paul.

I’m not suggesting what anyone owns is wrong ...only when those things become a measure to claim another person lacks Faith, Peace or Joy.
Well said. When we think what we own is proof God loves us, we've lost our way.
The things we own, own us.
 

amadeus

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Mark 11:24
Jesus's Words==“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” =====Believers living in the will of God= You can have what you say! Many are content with little and have no interest in prosperity and they have what they desire and say!

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Mark 11:24

But... don't tell only half of the story. Those words hold true subject to these:

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

When our will is now and always equal to God's will, then we would never even ask for anything not according to His will. When we are there, where our will always equals His will, then we will most certainly receive whatever we ask.

To recite only Mark 11:24 to a person when you know what these other verses are saying and understand what they mean would be deceptive. Would such a deceptive omission be a sin before God?
 
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GISMYS_7

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"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Mark 11:24

But... don't tell only half of the story. Those words hold true subject to these:

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

When our will is now and always equal to God's will, then we would never even ask for anything not according to His will. When we are there, where our will always equals His will, then we will most certainly receive whatever we ask.

To recite only Mark 11:24 to a person when you know what these other verses are saying and understand what they mean would be deceptive. Would such a deceptive omission be a sin before God?

Mark 11:24
Jesus's Words==“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” =====""""Believers living in the will of God""""= You can have what you say! Many are content with little and have no interest in prosperity and they have what they desire and say!
 

amadeus

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Mark 11:24
Jesus's Words==“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” =====""""Believers living in the will of God""""= You can have what you say! Many are content with little and have no interest in prosperity and they have what they desire and say!
I agree my friend that we can have all that God wants us to have, but we should not presume to know all that is at any given moment in our walk. If we really love God more than anything else, we should want to do everything exactly according to His will for us. He knows exactly what that is better than we do... which is why we need to hear from Him now so as to be asking for the right things at the right time.

"the sheep follow him: for they know his voice."

God loves us so much that for a period of time He may wink at our foolishness, but He is always willing to help us move to a higher place in Him. We need to remember who are the sheep and who is the Shepherd. We are not to be our own Leader. We are not to be our own Head. If we are then Jesus in our case has no place to lay His head [see Matt 8:20].
 
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Renniks

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Mark 11:24
Jesus's Words==“Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” =====Believers living in the will of God= You can have what you say! Many are content with little and have no interest in prosperity and they have what they desire and say!
The Rich young ruler comes to mind. He desired wealth apparently too much. Jesus didn't allow him access to the kingdom in that state.
 
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GISMYS_7

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The Rich young ruler comes to mind. He desired wealth apparently too much. Jesus didn't allow him access to the kingdom in that state.

The rich young ruler loved money more than God and rejected the Words of Jesus.
 

DNB

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I'm not evading anything.

The question wasn't directed at me; but I answered it to the best of my ability.

Fact is, scripture is silent as to the answer to your question.

What do you expect me to do, try to find some kind of extra-biblical support for an answer that will suit your fancy?
No, simply appealing to wisdom will suffice. ...or, is that an oxymoron in regard to trinitarian theology?
 

justbyfaith

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No, simply appealing to wisdom will suffice. ...or, is that an oxymoron in regard to trinitarian theology?
I suppose that wisdom has the answer to the question of whether Jesus spoke at 2 yrs. of age.

In the hypostatic union, He is 100% Human and 100% Divine....100% x 100% = 100%.

In that He took on the added nature of humanity (a finite human body), He had to empty Himself of certain attributes of Deity (see Philippians 2).

So I would say that at 2 yrs of age, Jesus spoke and acted like a normal 2 yr. old (except that He would not have been a holy terror; being without sin).
 

DNB

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I suppose that wisdom has the answer to the question of whether Jesus spoke at 2 yrs. of age.

So I would say that at 2 yrs of age, Jesus spoke and acted like a normal 2 yr. old .
I agree with your conclusion, but not with the logic that you came to it.
Hypostatic union is an oxymoron, what defines deity, is antithetical to what delineates humanity. And, divinity cannot divest oneself of there ontology, or empty Himself of His intrinsic attributes. For, once He's done that, He has not the power anymore in order to regain them back. You see the utter nonsense behind such a hypothetical and incomprehensible tenet?
 

justbyfaith

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I agree with your conclusion, but not with the logic that you came to it.
Hypostatic union is an oxymoron, what defines deity, is antithetical to what delineates humanity. And, divinity cannot divest oneself of there ontology, or empty Himself of His intrinsic attributes. For, once He's done that, He has not the power anymore in order to regain them back. You see the utter nonsense behind such a hypothetical and incomprehensible tenet?

God the Father exists in eternity; and as such, He dwells in eternity eternally. Therefore, in descending to become a Man, He would not cease to dwell in eternity. From the perspective of being in eternity, God is able to have power over His incarnate self to raise His incarnate self from the dead.

It is also true that I do not believe that the 2nd Person of the Trinity, as dwelling in the flesh, rose to fill all things; but that He continues to dwell in a finite body of human flesh while His Spirit was also released to the Father into eternity and also rose to fill all things. This Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus; and is in a sense Jesus. But the 2nd Person of the Trinity, the Son of God, is confined to the flesh body of Jesus Christ in a permanent and perpetual hypostatic union.

While the 1st Person of the Trinity continues to dwell in eternity eternally (Isaiah 57:15). He lived one eternal moment and then (from the perspective of the Son) incarnated to become a Man...even the Son of man and Son of God...

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: