You can never lose your salvation!

[Richard_oti]

You're the one that used (Rom. 8:7) to prove something. Why should I have to explain it to you. As I said, I have no problem with it. It certainly doesn't teach any loss of salvation or law keeping.

So what does it reveal to us?

Concerning (John 5:14, 8:11), Jesus told them to 'go and sin no more' because they had both had a certain sin brought to light. Jesus healed one of the consequences of his sin. He pardoned another due to her sin. He then tells them to not do it again. Pretty simple.

Of what sin was do you ascribe to the one who had 38 years of infirmity? So, what was he told not to do again?

What was her sin? And what were the sins of those who brought her?

Sin is a transgressing of the law.

Thus, Jesus told them according to your own words above, to go and transgress the law no more.

Sin is now anything not done in faith. The believer couldn't keep the law before Christ.

Luk 1:5 ... Zacharias ... Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The believer can't keep the law after Christ.

And now, we go right back to Romans 8:7.

The believer now has the Holy Ghost to enable his walk. And when he walks by the Spirit, he will naturally not be sinning against God. The point being, the believer is not keeping the Law by trying to keep the Law.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will bring their way upon their own heads, saith 'Elohey YHVH.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith YHVH: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:

Concerning (Heb. 12:2-4) I haven't changed anything. You made a very general statement citing only the book of Hebrews chapter 12 about resisting sin. To which I had to give the verses and context of the reference. To which Jesus blood, shed due to persecution of Jews, was the context. The wilful sin of (Heb. 10:26) is still going back to the Mosaic Law. I have changed nothing.

Now you appear to be subtly changing your story yet again. Luckily for you, I am too lazy this evening to go back through the thread and quote you. But don't think my laziness shall always be there.

So according to you, Jesus tells some to go and transgress the law no more, but it is willful sin to do so.

Concerning Origen, how stupid was that? Real stupid. What else can you say?

What was the sin?

Concerning (Rom. 11:7), Paul is not yet contrasting Israel and the Gentiles. Israel was broken off. The remnant consist of Jews who become Christian, meaning they are no longer Israel. They are part of the Church.

Did you ever notice, that per Jeremiah and Hebrews, the covenant is with the house of Israel?
Some were broken off, but you were grafted in.

 

[Stranger]

So what does it reveal to us?




Of what sin was do you ascribe to the one who had 38 years of infirmity? So, what was he told not to do again?

What was her sin? And what were the sins of those who brought her?




Thus, Jesus told them according to your own words above, to go and transgress the law no more.




Luk 1:5 ... Zacharias ... Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.




And now, we go right back to Romans 8:7.




Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for them whose heart walketh after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will bring their way upon their own heads, saith 'Elohey YHVH.

Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith YHVH: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people:




Now you appear to be subtly changing your story yet again. Luckily for you, I am too lazy this evening to go back through the thread and quote you. But don't think my laziness shall always be there.

So according to you, Jesus tells some to go and transgress the law no more, but it is willful sin to do so.




What was the sin?




Did you ever notice, that per Jeremiah and Hebrews, the covenant is with the house of Israel?
Some were broken off, but you were grafted in.

Again, you used (Rom. 8:7). Make your point. If you don't know what it means, just say so.

I have explained (John 5:14, and 8:11). Your questions add nothing to the argument.

Concerning (Luke 1:5-6), my statement you highlight is that the believer couldn't keep the law before Christ. Zacharias and Elisabeth were righteous and blameless walking in the commandments and ordinances. They were under the law, thus they brought the correct sacrifices for their sins, which evidenced that they could not keep the law. They were righteous only by their faith. They were blameless in that they did all that was required of them in walking with God. They still could not keep the law.

Concerning (Rom. 8:7), we are back to it only in that you continue to refuse to explain what it has to do with the loss of salvation. In fact you refuse to explain what it means period, though you are the one using it.

Concerning (Ez. 11:19), (Jer. 31:33), and (Heb. 8:10), they all point to the time when Israel will as a nation will be brought back to God and experience the Holy Spirit as the Church has it now. Thus they also will keep the law by not trying to keep the law. They will keep it because it is in their heart. They will walk by the Spirit of God.

Concerning (Heb. 12:2-4, 10:26), I simply repeat, the wilfull sin is the Jewish Christians going back to the law after coming to Christ.

Concerning Origen, go back and read your own comment in your post #176.

Concerning Jeremiah and Hebrews, yes. I noticed that.

Stranger

 

[Richard_oti]

Again, you used (Rom. 8:7). Make your point. If you don't know what it means, just say so.

I already asked you, what does it reveal to us? You have claimed that I was mistaken with regard to everything that I have posted. So perhaps you would be so kind as to explain it to me.

<snip>

Concerning (Heb. 12:2-4, 10:26), I simply repeat, the wilfull sin is the Jewish Christians going back to the law after coming to Christ.

Only "Jewish" Christians? So if I am not "Jewish", then for me it is not willful sin.

 

[Stranger]

Again, you used (Rom. 8:7). Make your point. If you don't know what it means, just say so.

Concerning (Rom. 8:7), you brought it up first in post #173. I responded that it says nothing about loss of salvation or keeping the law. If you think it does, then show me how it does.

If you, or any other believer go back to the law as the means by which you walk and attempt to please God, then you have committed the wilful sin of (Heb. 10:25-26).

Stranger

 

[Richard_oti]

Concerning (Rom. 8:7), you brought it up first in post #173. I responded that it says nothing about loss of salvation or keeping the law. If you think it does, then show me how it does.

IOW: You are unwilling to explain it.

If you, or any other believer go back to the law as the means by which you walk and attempt to please God, then you have committed the wilful sin of (Heb. 10:25-26).

Make up your mind, is it the Jewish or anyone. From my perspective, you have had to twist the plain and simple reading of the text in several places to come to this conclusion. As such, as far as I am concerned, this aspect of our discussion is at it's end. Assuming there has actually been any real "discussion" that is.

 

[Stranger]

IOW: You are unwilling to explain it.




Make up your mind, is it the Jewish or anyone. From my perspective, you have had to twist the plain and simple reading of the text in several places to come to this conclusion. As such, as far as I am concerned, this aspect of our discussion is at it's end. Assuming there has actually been any real "discussion" that is.

Yes, I am unwilling to explain it since you are the one using it.

The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish Christians. The Jews were the ones under the Mosaic law. This is a distinction between them and the Gentiles. The Jewish Christian was tempted to go back under the law. The Gentile Christian can be tempted to go to the law, back to a system God no longer uses, making him guilty of the same. See also the book of (Galatians 1-6)

Stranger

 

[Richard_oti]

Yes, I am unwilling to explain it since you are the one using it.

Why not that one. You "explained" everything else.

The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish Christians. The Jews were the ones under the Mosaic law. This is a distinction between them and the Gentiles.

Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek:

The Jewish Christian was tempted to go back under the law. The Gentile Christian can be tempted to go to the law, back to a system God no longer uses, making him guilty of the same. See also the book of (Galatians 1-6)

If Hebrews is only to Jewish Christians, and since I am not from Galatia, then Galatians must not apply to me per your logic above. Neither am I Roman, nor any of the others addressed in the NT. Gee, looks like I can rip those pages outta my Bible, they don't apply to me. For that matter, that would extend to the TaNaKh as well as being unapplicable. I got a one page Bible, "The Table of Contents" <chuckle>.

 

[Stranger]

Why not that one. You "explained" everything else.




Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek:




If Hebrews is only to Jewish Christians, and since I am not from Galatia, then Galatians must not apply to me per your logic above. Neither am I Roman, nor any of the others addressed in the NT. Gee, looks like I can rip those pages outta my Bible, they don't apply to me. For that matter, that would extend to the TaNaKh as well as being unapplicable. I got a one page Bible, "The Table of Contents" <chuckle>.

I get tired of doing your work.

No distinction pertaining to the opportunity to salvation. (Rom. 10:13) "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." That does not mean there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles.

I didn't say the book of Hebrews is only to Jewish Christians. But it is certainly written to Jewish Christians with their particular experience in view. The same is true with Galatians. It is written with the Gentile Christian experience in view.

You may as well have.

Stranger