You Know You're a Pharisee If...

[brightmorningstar]

Hi Shirley,
Sorry to hear your story, was he an orthodox Jew then?
I was caught by these remarks you made.

slightest attempt to build me up

and

A woman is not allowed to cut her hair or wear pants so I must certainly be going to their eternal torture chamber

These are good examples of religion that picks and chooses. To the first of course God says I have plans to prosper you and not to harm you and promises 1 Peter 1:4 an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

and to the second, Jesus NT teaching also says do not worry about what you shall wear. but the NT also warns about moderation.

Romans 1-2 is a very good example. To the gentile believers in Romans 1 the warning of licence, using freedom in Christ to sin, and Romans 2 to the Jews the warning of legalism and judging others.

 

[Strat]

And yet, you allow yourself to write rude posts regularly......

Seriously? Do you actually have such poor insight?

You are a liberal and all opposition is rude,anything but total deference or silence is rude.

Case in point, unfortunately.

You call me a Pharisee because my"perspective" of an article is different from yours...too funny,if a person comes away from an encounter with a Christian be it a sermon,conference or whatever with an awareness of their sin before a holy God and their need for a saviour and a desire in their heart to repent the work of salvation and the gospel has been accomplished and a soul has been saved...if they go away feeling pretty good about themselves and that they are no worse than anyone else thinking that Jesus would be a nice addition to their modern lifestyle no fruit of any value has been produced...it was nothing but a social gathering of no consequence.

I hear people talk about "love" all the time but i rarely meet anyone who is willing to love in any way other than that which will bring them acceptence and popularity,the truth is often not accepted or popular and to love somone enough to tell them the truth and have them not like you and think you are a great person is a love most are not interested in.

 

[Foreigner]

Just found the article on christianpost.com.
I appreciate what was said very much.

Strat, I would ask that you read your own posts as if you were receiving them from someone else.
That perspective may be a bit of an eye opener for you.

And if you end up saying to me or others, "well you guys started it with your words/tone, etc." that won't justify you returning the favor and won't excuse the reciprocation when taking the contents of the article into consideration.

If you wish to stand in judgement of me or others (as I too have done towards others) you can really only do that if you haven't first come down to our level with your responses (as I unfortunately have done on more than one occasion).

Or to put it simply:
If someone says "You are a do-do head," you can't really call into question the type of person he or she is if before saying that you first responded with "well, you're a do-do head too."

Just something to ponder.




.

 

[Strat]

Just found the article on christianpost.com.
I appreciate what was said very much.

Strat, I would ask that you read your own posts as if you were receiving them from someone else.
That perspective may be a bit of an eye opener for you.

And if you end up saying to me or others, "well you guys started it with your words/tone, etc." that still won't excuse the reciprocation when taking the contents of the article into consideration.

If you wish to stand in judgement of me or others (as I too have done towards others) you can really only do that if you haven't first come down to our level with your responses (as I unfortunately have done on more than one occasion).

Or to put it simply:
If someone says "You are a do-do head," you can't really call into question the type of person he or she is if before saying that you first responded with "well, you're a do-do head too."

Just something to ponder.


.

From my first post here to the this one anyone who disagreed with me has said so in no uncertain or ambiguous terms,your point is the old"tone" arguement where the substance of a post is second to it's emotional impact and since we all know that we live in an almost purely emotional time emotion is all that matters.The man called me a Pharisee because he did not agree with my opinion of the article,his disregard of my opinions are second only to my disregard of his...i don't care what anyone thinks of me anymore because i spent too many years worrying about that...modern Christianity is driven by emotion and a need to be accepted by modern society...we should know better....does anyone remember what Jesus said about the Pharisees and exceeding their rightousness ? why not adress whether or not what i say is true rather than whether or not you feel good about how i said it ?

 

[Foreigner]

why not adress whether or not what i say is true rather than whether or not you feel good about how i said it ?

-- Great idea. But that applies to you, as well.
From the very first time you ever engaged me in conversation - when I was talking to Episkopos, not you - you criticized me....for what I was saying to him.
I provided specific facts to back up what I said to him and all you did was get bent out of shape about "how I said it."

It was the TRAYVON MARTIN thread.
He stated are are CURRENTLY in a police, and I posted to HIM that we were not and gave specific proof.

You then chimed in with:

"The police state is advancing by degrees and all of things you mentioned are waiting for us in the future,it may be a premature but not inaccurate statement."

My complete reply:

-- LOL The very fact that it is "premature" actually proves that is inaccurate.

"That's like saying someone has already given birth to a baby because they are six months along and will be heading to the hospital in about three months.
I have said in multiple posts on this board that eventually we as Christians are gong to be prosecuted, persecuted, imprisoned and put to death.
Our country is slowly but surely becoming like other totalitarian states of the past. Our disadvantage is that technology is a tool aiding them greatly.
But we are NOT - as quoted by Episkopos - "a virtual police state,"
We are slowly, consistently working in that direction, but we are absolutely, positively, without a doubt NOT THERE YET.
The very existance of this web site is proof.
The fact that there are thousands of political web sites lambasting the current administration with zero repercussions is further proof.
The fact that new agencies are able to cover any news event they want and report it how they see fit (with any political slant they want) is again FURTHER proof.
The fact that groups such as OWS - with one of their stated goals being the overthrow of the current government system - are able to get a permit to protest freely and are only confronted when they pro-actively attack the police or disobey orders to disband because they are illegally on someone else's private property is FURTHER FURTHER proof.
Your argument that since we are headed in that direction, by default we already are one is ridiculous."


-- There.
A thorough explanation as to why even though we are heading for a police state, we are not currently IN a police state


***********************************
SO RIGHT THEN AND THERE YOUR WORDS "why not adress whether or not what i say is true rather than whether or not you feel good about how i said it ?" WOULD HAVE APPLIED P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y TO ME.
BUT THEY ALSO WOULD HAVE APPLIED PERFECTLY TO YOU IN YOUR NEXT POST.

***********************************


And your reply:

"Your "proof" is nonsense,as is your lack of ability to understand the steady ecroachment of government power....here's a new word for you...."incrementalism" it's a big word,lot's of syllables...people like you said the same things 50 years ago and in 50 years government power has grown by leaps and bounds."


-- Whether you liked my answer or not I gave specific proof, including examples, as to why you observation was incorrect.
Now, compare that to your answer.
Accusation? Check.
Condescention? Check.
Total lack of anything that undermines the information I provided? Check.
You provided NOTHING to refute what I said, feeling instead that calling it "nonsense" sufficed.
I may have been snarky, but at least I backed up what I said.


My Response:

"I am sorry. I try to take you seriously, honest I do. But more often than not I find myself chuckling and shaking my head.
Yes, I know what "incrimentalism" is. But the very definition actually negates the point you are trying to make.
I took college courses and incrimentally approached my degree. But until I completed my courses I did not have my degree.
Or to put it in simply: One quarter away from finishing my degree I could not claim I was a college graduate.
Everyone knew it was coming.
Little chance it wasn't going to happen.
But until it actually took place.....
And the definition of "encroachment" means that it may be closing in, but has not yet happened.
I have posted a number of items here detailing how we are incrementally moving towards a police state.
But
We
Are
Not
There
Yet.
Episkopos didn't say we are HEADED there. He said we ARE there.
However, the simple fact that he is able to make that post critical to our government and not have to worry about being arrested SHOWS we are not yet in a police state.
It really is that simple.
You should just relax and eat some fruit or something."


-- Again, SPECIFICS as to why Episkopos and you are incorrect.
Again, snarky, (and at that point I WAS having difficulty taking you seriously), but AGAIN with specifics as to why you are incorrect.


Your Resonse:

"Sure,people like yourself have been eating the fruit of diversion,complacency,arrogance and trivial pursuit for decades and of course as is typical of the kind,patting yourself on the back for it...which is precisely why we are this far down the road...instead of silly condescending statements why not educate yourself on the curerent state of affairs in regard to privacy and freedom...have an Apple and check out the defense authorization act,have a Peach and check out the executive orders that seem to come around all the time....have an Orange and see what's up with the "patriot" act...oh yeah,none of this stuff is on Facebook or ESPN.COM so you will have to do a little searching during halftime or perhaps in between American Idol episodes."

-- Please note that yet AGAIN you provide nothing to challenge the specifics I put forth.
You simply continued to revel in my level of snarkiness.
I provided specific (again). You provided this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


My Response:

"LOL This is the best you can come up with after your rant about 'incrimentalism' and 'encroachment' was embarassingly deflated?
Still, I do thank you for acknowledging what I said was correct. Very big of you.
We will one day be a police state. Have been heading there a long time.
But we are NOT one right now.
Glad I could clear that up for ya."


Your Response:

"You have cleared up nothing but have simply shown once again that your only purpose is consecending arrogance and arguement,we are living in a police state,if you would like to argue what stage we are in do it with somebody else"


-- Again, I gave SPECIFICS - specific examples - as to why you were incorrect.
And AGAIN you provided absolutely ZERO feedback as to WHY my specific observations are incorrect.


This is what I am talking about

 

[aspen]

Hi Aspen2,
I dont see where anyone has suggested teaching, correcting and even rebuking (2 Tim 3) should not be done in a civil manner.
I didn’t suggest anything of the sort, the opposite was implied. The truth results in salvation not punishment. Jesus said He came to save, not condemn.
I guess however you are right that the truth can hurt where people decide to reject it in anger. It does after all judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Remember we are dealing with a fallen race......nonbelievers project themselves on each other constantly - instead of receiving their forgiven self worth from God's love all they see is their own unredeemed self in the faces of those around them. So we are already at a disadvantage; if we react negatively to their hatred of themselves reflected, we will incite anger and inflict more damage. I think this is why we need to focus so much on sharing Christ's love - especially when we are correcting. My biggest challenge is reacting poorly to people who claim to be Christians when I see rude and angry behavior from them towards me or others - I do not like getting slapped across the face with anything, including the truth. And I remember how I would have reacted before I was a Christian!

You are a liberal and all opposition is rude,anything but total deference or silence is rude.

You have decided this about me? I think you have been reading a few of my posts for a whole week now, right? LOL

Ok Strat....

 

[Shirley]

I think truth telling needs to be done with caution and lead by the Spirit. If I went to my legalistic Father and said the truth it would be rude and disrespectful. I could say you are a legalistic Pharisee and have not shown me the love of God hardly ever. You save all your love for the members of you church and you worship your cult like religion. You also do not display love or kindness to me. You constantly nit pick little things that are not commandments at all. You do not show the fruit of patience. You are mean and judgmental to your family.

What would it accomplish if I told the truth as I see it? I don't want to also be guilty of judging. It sure is hard not to judge though. I can pray for God to have mercy on both of us, but as for reconciling, the only thing that would make him accept me, would be for me to bow down to his religion which I can not do.

Pharisee's destroy new converts all the time. They do not notice that they are nasty people and blame others for their own faults. My Father can not love me because I think his religion is very wrong.

 

[aspen]

I think truth telling needs to be done with caution and lead by the Spirit. If I went to my legalistic Father and said the truth it would be rude and disrespectful. I could say you are a legalistic Pharisee and have not shown me the love of God hardly ever. You save all your love for the members of you church and you worship your cult like religion. You also do not display love or kindness to me. You constantly nit pick little things that are not commandments at all. You do not show the fruit of patience. You are mean and judgmental to your family.

What would it accomplish if I told the truth as I see it? I don't want to also be guilty of judging. It sure is hard not to judge though. I can pray for God to have mercy on both of us, but as for reconciling, the only thing that would make him accept me, would be for me to bow down to his religion which I can not do.

Pharisee's destroy new converts all the time. They do not notice that they are nasty people and blame others for their own faults. My Father can not love me because I think his religion is very wrong.

Great post!

 

[Strat]

-- Great idea. But that applies to you, as well.
From the very first time you ever engaged me in conversation - when I was talking to Episkopos, not you - you criticized me....for what I was saying to him.
I provided specific facts to back up what I said to him and all you did was get bent out of shape about "how I said it."

It was the TRAYVON MARTIN thread.
He stated are are CURRENTLY in a police, and I posted to HIM that we were not and gave specific proof.

You then chimed in with:

"The police state is advancing by degrees and all of things you mentioned are waiting for us in the future,it may be a premature but not inaccurate statement."

My complete reply:

-- LOL The very fact that it is "premature" actually proves that is inaccurate.

"That's like saying someone has already given birth to a baby because they are six months along and will be heading to the hospital in about three months.
I have said in multiple posts on this board that eventually we as Christians are gong to be prosecuted, persecuted, imprisoned and put to death.
Our country is slowly but surely becoming like other totalitarian states of the past. Our disadvantage is that technology is a tool aiding them greatly.
But we are NOT - as quoted by Episkopos - "a virtual police state,"
We are slowly, consistently working in that direction, but we are absolutely, positively, without a doubt NOT THERE YET.
The very existance of this web site is proof.
The fact that there are thousands of political web sites lambasting the current administration with zero repercussions is further proof.
The fact that new agencies are able to cover any news event they want and report it how they see fit (with any political slant they want) is again FURTHER proof.
The fact that groups such as OWS - with one of their stated goals being the overthrow of the current government system - are able to get a permit to protest freely and are only confronted when they pro-actively attack the police or disobey orders to disband because they are illegally on someone else's private property is FURTHER FURTHER proof.
Your argument that since we are headed in that direction, by default we already are one is ridiculous."


-- There.
A thorough explanation as to why even though we are heading for a police state, we are not currently IN a police state


***********************************
SO RIGHT THEN AND THERE YOUR WORDS "why not adress whether or not what i say is true rather than whether or not you feel good about how i said it ?" WOULD HAVE APPLIED P-E-R-F-E-C-T-L-Y TO ME.
BUT THEY ALSO WOULD HAVE APPLIED PERFECTLY TO YOU IN YOUR NEXT POST.

***********************************


And your reply:

"Your "proof" is nonsense,as is your lack of ability to understand the steady ecroachment of government power....here's a new word for you...."incrementalism" it's a big word,lot's of syllables...people like you said the same things 50 years ago and in 50 years government power has grown by leaps and bounds."


-- Whether you liked my answer or not I gave specific proof, including examples, as to why you observation was incorrect.
Now, compare that to your answer.
Accusation? Check.
Condescention? Check.
Total lack of anything that undermines the information I provided? Check.
You provided NOTHING to refute what I said, feeling instead that calling it "nonsense" sufficed.
I may have been snarky, but at least I backed up what I said.


My Response:

"I am sorry. I try to take you seriously, honest I do. But more often than not I find myself chuckling and shaking my head.
Yes, I know what "incrimentalism" is. But the very definition actually negates the point you are trying to make.
I took college courses and incrimentally approached my degree. But until I completed my courses I did not have my degree.
Or to put it in simply: One quarter away from finishing my degree I could not claim I was a college graduate.
Everyone knew it was coming.
Little chance it wasn't going to happen.
But until it actually took place.....
And the definition of "encroachment" means that it may be closing in, but has not yet happened.
I have posted a number of items here detailing how we are incrementally moving towards a police state.
But
We
Are
Not
There
Yet.
Episkopos didn't say we are HEADED there. He said we ARE there.
However, the simple fact that he is able to make that post critical to our government and not have to worry about being arrested SHOWS we are not yet in a police state.
It really is that simple.
You should just relax and eat some fruit or something."


-- Again, SPECIFICS as to why Episkopos and you are incorrect.
Again, snarky, (and at that point I WAS having difficulty taking you seriously), but AGAIN with specifics as to why you are incorrect.


Your Resonse:

"Sure,people like yourself have been eating the fruit of diversion,complacency,arrogance and trivial pursuit for decades and of course as is typical of the kind,patting yourself on the back for it...which is precisely why we are this far down the road...instead of silly condescending statements why not educate yourself on the curerent state of affairs in regard to privacy and freedom...have an Apple and check out the defense authorization act,have a Peach and check out the executive orders that seem to come around all the time....have an Orange and see what's up with the "patriot" act...oh yeah,none of this stuff is on Facebook or ESPN.COM so you will have to do a little searching during halftime or perhaps in between American Idol episodes."

-- Please note that yet AGAIN you provide nothing to challenge the specifics I put forth.
You simply continued to revel in my level of snarkiness.
I provided specific (again). You provided this ^ ^ ^ ^ ^


My Response:

"LOL This is the best you can come up with after your rant about 'incrimentalism' and 'encroachment' was embarassingly deflated?
Still, I do thank you for acknowledging what I said was correct. Very big of you.
We will one day be a police state. Have been heading there a long time.
But we are NOT one right now.
Glad I could clear that up for ya."


Your Response:

"You have cleared up nothing but have simply shown once again that your only purpose is consecending arrogance and arguement,we are living in a police state,if you would like to argue what stage we are in do it with somebody else"


-- Again, I gave SPECIFICS - specific examples - as to why you were incorrect.
And AGAIN you provided absolutely ZERO feedback as to WHY my specific observations are incorrect.


This is what I am talking about

Wow,how long did all that take....you take me way more seriously than i take you

I think truth telling needs to be done with caution and lead by the Spirit. If I went to my legalistic Father and said the truth it would be rude and disrespectful. I could say you are a legalistic Pharisee and have not shown me the love of God hardly ever. You save all your love for the members of you church and you worship your cult like religion. You also do not display love or kindness to me. You constantly nit pick little things that are not commandments at all. You do not show the fruit of patience. You are mean and judgmental to your family.

What would it accomplish if I told the truth as I see it? I don't want to also be guilty of judging. It sure is hard not to judge though. I can pray for God to have mercy on both of us, but as for reconciling, the only thing that would make him accept me, would be for me to bow down to his religion which I can not do.

Pharisee's destroy new converts all the time. They do not notice that they are nasty people and blame others for their own faults. My Father can not love me because I think his religion is very wrong.

I will ask you as respetfully as i can

How is truth affected by how you,me or anyone else see's it,if truth cannot stand alone and not be subject to the whims of men,or women for that matter what good is it and is it realy true ?
What is the right way to say you are wrong ?
Who is saving all their love for Church members,i've never seen it ?
Christianity is a cult like religion ? i didn't know that.
We are in agreement about rules that are not commandments,i am a musician beleive me i know.
Who's religion are you expected to bow down to ? id it is not found in the bIble it is a lie.

Remember we are dealing with a fallen race......nonbelievers project themselves on each other constantly - instead of receiving their forgiven self worth from God's love all they see is their own unredeemed self in the faces of those around them. So we are already at a disadvantage; if we react negatively to their hatred of themselves reflected, we will incite anger and inflict more damage. I think this is why we need to focus so much on sharing Christ's love - especially when we are correcting. My biggest challenge is reacting poorly to people who claim to be Christians when I see rude and angry behavior from them towards me or others - I do not like getting slapped across the face with anything, including the truth. And I remember how I would have reacted before I was a Christian!



You have decided this about me? I think you have been reading a few of my posts for a whole week now, right? LOL

Ok Strat....

No i havn't decided anything apart from what i have seen in your post...you say Obama is, i beleive you said a "real" president...we havn't had a real president in 100 or more years if have any respect for the constitution.I suspect you support Obama because he is growing the welfare state which you beleive in..yes he supports abortion and and the advancement of Homosexuality and lies through his teeth but hey,he's sendinmg out more government checks and that is the sum total of Christianity...didn't Jesus say ask the tax collector if he was collecting eonough taxes to support the woman at the well when he had dinner with him...i can't remember...can you ?

 

[Foreigner]

Wow,how long did all that take....you take me way more seriously than i take you

- Yeah, it was a brutal two minutes worth of cutting, pasting, and editing.
But thanks for confirming that I took your earlier rants in this thread much more seriously than I should have.


.

 

[Strat]

- Yeah, it was a brutal two minutes worth of cutting, pasting, and editing.
But thanks for confirming that I took your earlier rants in this thread much more seriously than I should have.


.

Your rants are noted as well,the tactic of controling what people say by placing the responsability for own emotional reaction to what they say on them doesn't work on everyone....how odd it is that none of the questions i have ask here have ever been answered...too much....."tone" i guess LOL

 

[Shirley]

So I asked for prayer on this thread because of my anger towards Pharisee religion and my Fathers treatment of his family. This morning my Father called to show me love


Thank-you God for helping me and showing me your love!




Answer to Strat:


I will ask you as respetfully as i can


Well thank-you for trying to show respect!

How is truth affected by how you,me or anyone else see's it,if truth cannot stand alone and not be subject to the whims of men,or women for that matter what good is it and is it realy true ?

I only know what God has showed me is true and even then I know I don't know much when I am thinking in the flesh. I was talking about telling the truth in real life to real people. Just trying to keep it real. Just trying to share the pain and get some love for my struggles. The truth for me is that pharasee behavior has hurt me more than I can even say. Just something that is the thing God has showed me is my problem. Not being a pharisee but being angry with pharisee like religious attitudes. I'm not trying to dis religion, not even the one i came from. The world has been so much nicer to me than the religion i was brought up in. My religion was a society of people who tried to keep separate from the world. They do have saints, but they also have harmed a lot of people including most of my family. I do not wish to bad mouth people but The pain that is in me needs healed by the Holy Spirit.


What is the right way to say you are wrong ?

I say I was wrong Please forgive me!



Who is saving all their love for Church members,i've never seen it ?

I was talking about my own dad but I know that many others can relate to what I am saying.


Christianity is a cult like religion ? i didn't know that.

Ok, now you put words in my mouth which I did not ever say. If you really wanted to be part of this community of believers then you would have never said that because you would know better!!!!! I have been very upset with you and your behavior since you came on this site. I have actually quit reading because your op-positional defiant behavior ruins my time here. This is the only body of believers I have right now and I am sick of you saying things that are not true and I am sick of you being sarcastic all the time and down right rude. You owe a lot of people apology!!!!!


We are in agreement about rules that are not commandments,i am a musician beleive me i know.

Thank you for saying this!!!


Who's religion are you expected to bow down to ? id it is not found in the bIble it is a lie.

My dad's religion which I am sure I stated. You would be surprised the rules people can make up using the Bible!!!!!!!!

 

[aspen]

Wow,how long did all that take....you take me way more seriously than i take you



I will ask you as respetfully as i can

How is truth affected by how you,me or anyone else see's it,if truth cannot stand alone and not be subject to the whims of men,or women for that matter what good is it and is it realy true ?
What is the right way to say you are wrong ?
Who is saving all their love for Church members,i've never seen it ?
Christianity is a cult like religion ? i didn't know that.
We are in agreement about rules that are not commandments,i am a musician beleive me i know.
Who's religion are you expected to bow down to ? id it is not found in the bIble it is a lie.



No i havn't decided anything apart from what i have seen in your post...you say Obama is, i beleive you said a "real" president...we havn't had a real president in 100 or more years if have any respect for the constitution.I suspect you support Obama because he is growing the welfare state which you beleive in..yes he supports abortion and and the advancement of Homosexuality and lies through his teeth but hey,he's sendinmg out more government checks and that is the sum total of Christianity...didn't Jesus say ask the tax collector if he was collecting eonough taxes to support the woman at the well when he had dinner with him...i can't remember...can you ?

Ok, I admit it, I get a bit hyperbolic when I am engaged in a boring conversation.

Tax collectors were forced to collect taxes without pay - they had to steal the money to live from the taxes they collected. Also, when Rome was in decline, people stopped paying their taxes, all together. Furthermore, tax collectors were not allowed to find another profession - it was passed down from father to son. So, although the tax collector was universally hated - he was also one of Jesus's kind of people - just like the women at the well.

You're right, Jesus didn't set up a government welfare system.....or a garbage collection, or a post office, or a police force, or even end government sanctioned slavery - does this mean that we are not supposed to have government services or oppose slavery?

 

[Strat]

Ok, I admit it, I get a bit hyperbolic when I am engaged in a boring conversation.

Tax collectors were forced to collect taxes without pay - they had to steal the money to live from the taxes they collected. Also, when Rome was in decline, people stopped paying their taxes, all together. Furthermore, tax collectors were not allowed to find another profession - it was passed down from father to son. So, although the tax collector was universally hated - he was also one of Jesus's kind of people - just like the women at the well.

You're right, Jesus didn't set up a government welfare system.....or a garbage collection, or a post office, or a police force, or even end government sanctioned slavery - does this mean that we are not supposed to have government services or oppose slavery?

It doesn't realy matter anymore,the seeds of envy,entitlement and dependence have been sown and a harvest of ruin is on its way...this election is going to be about the check in the mail with no regard as to where it comes from or at what price it comes...you think things are bad for the "poor" now just wait until harvest time.

So I asked for prayer on this thread because of my anger towards Pharisee religion and my Fathers treatment of his family. This morning my Father called to show me love


Thank-you God for helping me and showing me your love!




Answer to Strat:


I will ask you as respetfully as i can


Well thank-you for trying to show respect!

How is truth affected by how you,me or anyone else see's it,if truth cannot stand alone and not be subject to the whims of men,or women for that matter what good is it and is it realy true ?

I only know what God has showed me is true and even then I know I don't know much when I am thinking in the flesh. I was talking about telling the truth in real life to real people. Just trying to keep it real. Just trying to share the pain and get some love for my struggles. The truth for me is that pharasee behavior has hurt me more than I can even say. Just something that is the thing God has showed me is my problem. Not being a pharisee but being angry with pharisee like religious attitudes. I'm not trying to dis religion, not even the one i came from. The world has been so much nicer to me than the religion i was brought up in. My religion was a society of people who tried to keep separate from the world. They do have saints, but they also have harmed a lot of people including most of my family. I do not wish to bad mouth people but The pain that is in me needs healed by the Holy Spirit.


What is the right way to say you are wrong ?

I say I was wrong Please forgive me!



Who is saving all their love for Church members,i've never seen it ?

I was talking about my own dad but I know that many others can relate to what I am saying.


Christianity is a cult like religion ? i didn't know that.

Ok, now you put words in my mouth which I did not ever say. If you really wanted to be part of this community of believers then you would have never said that because you would know better!!!!! I have been very upset with you and your behavior since you came on this site. I have actually quit reading because your op-positional defiant behavior ruins my time here. This is the only body of believers I have right now and I am sick of you saying things that are not true and I am sick of you being sarcastic all the time and down right rude. You owe a lot of people apology!!!!!


We are in agreement about rules that are not commandments,i am a musician beleive me i know.

Thank you for saying this!!!


Who's religion are you expected to bow down to ? id it is not found in the bIble it is a lie.

My dad's religion which I am sure I stated. You would be surprised the rules people can make up using the Bible!!!!!!!!

Your constant reference to your emotions leads me to beleive that this is how you yourself control people to get your own way,i have quite a bit of experience with such people....its all about you and how you feel,nobody has a right to say anything that upsets you or offends you,they must agree or be silent to protect your feelings...by placing the responsability for your emotions on others you can control what they say and do.I see things here all the time i don't feel good about but instead of complaining to people about how bad i feel because they expressed an opinion i express my own opinion...or as you put it i oppose them....i havn't called anybody names or any such thing but for some people opposition and disagreement is the worst form of insult and it doesn't matter how it is done it will receive ambiguous and ill defined accusations of rudeness,sarcasm,ect etc....it is just an attempt to marginalize and eliminate people you don't agree with.

This is a forum,not a meeting of the mutual admiration and deference society where adults must take responsability for their own emotional responses and not expect others to labor over every word,phrase and opinion so they won't be offended.I do not intentionally offend anyone and i do not assume people intend to offend me and don't realy care if they do....with all the stuff people say about dying to self one would think that an obsession with one's emotions would not be as common as it is.

 

[Foreigner]

Your rants are noted as well,the tactic of controling what people say by placing the responsability for own emotional reaction to what they say on them doesn't work on everyone....how odd it is that none of the questions i have ask here have ever been answered...too much....."tone" i guess LOL

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:

why not adress whether or not what i say is true rather than whether or not you feel good about how i said it ?

In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

 

[Strat]

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:



In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:



In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:



In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:



In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

-- Strat. Poor Strat

My long response to you - the one where I pointed to another thread where I have also given several SPECIFIC answers - was specifically in response (translation: actually answering the question) that you put forth here:



In other words, I was doing EXACTLY what you asked.

It would appear that my answer, backed by multiple specific examples to show why the answer was correct, and you were wrong, did not sit well with you.
While I understand why (you hate being shown you are wrong), I had hoped you were honest enough to seriously engage and respond.

Once more, I gave you too much credit.

I apologize.

We are in a police state by the way,a police state is defined by the monitoring and control of the population...you think we are not in one simply because you have not run afoul of it yet....say the wrong things about the wrong people and see where it gets you...do some research into the surveilence technology and where and how it is being used...it is not good to define the world based on your own experience thinking that because you have not experienced something it doesn't exist...perhaps you have heard of the defense authorization act ? does that not exist because they havn't knocked on your door yet ? i suppose all those people who hear about only occasionally who have their rights violated don't matter....sure,this is America after all and if it doesn't affect me it doesn't exist and doesn't matter.

 

[aspen]

Starting to wonder Strat, if you are afraid of emotion. Are all emotional responses attempts to control you? Are emotions a normal part of the human response? mind / heart / will are equally susceptible to temptation and redemption. Without emotion, our faith is all in our head - we are called to turn all of ourselves over to Christ.


On another note....

I am seeing a disconnect - so many people on this board mourn the freedom we used to have in the US in the good old days and warn against further totalitarianism at the hands of communists like Obama and the current police state; but also preach a fatalism about the world. Not only is the world doomed, but we are in for as much torture and destruction as the imagination can provide - and we deserve it all.


So, if we are doomed - why complain about our loss of freedom? Isn't it par for the course, in your vision of the end?

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

Remember we are dealing with a fallen race

Not with 2 Tim 3, that I quoted regarding believers.

I think this is why we need to focus so much on sharing Christ's love - especially when we are correcting.

No, you missed my point, correction comes through faith, we cant expect people to be corrected to live for Christ when they don’t believe in Him.
You seem to have ignored the point I was making, that the correction is for believers, not unbelievers.

My biggest challenge is reacting poorly to people who claim to be Christians when I see rude and angry behavior from them towards me or others

What do you see then between rebuking and rudeness? Can you give an example?

 

[aspen]

Aspen2,
Not with 2 Tim 3, that I quoted regarding believers.

Agreed. I was talking about witnessing to nonbelievers.

No, you missed my point, correction comes through faith, we cant expect people to be corrected to live for Christ when they don’t believe in Him.
You seem to have ignored the point I was making, that the correction is for believers, not unbelievers.

I guess I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying.

What do you see then between rebuking and rudeness? Can you give an example?

I am not a fan of rebuking or rudeness to be honest. Both terms suggest overkill - why rebuke when you can simply offer a correction? Why communicate "I am right; you're willfully ignorant"? Respect you show a coworker or employee should be the minimum respect you show a brother or sister in Christ.......don't you think? If the attitude / tone would get you fired at work, it probably isn't going to be received by a fellow Christian very well - and nonbelievers will simply disengage. We need to witness to others in a manner that sets the stage for a positive interaction the nonbeliever will have with the next Christian they meet. Our faith is a relay race.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

Agreed. I was talking about witnessing to nonbelievers.

Well I was talking about teaching and correcting believers.

I am not a fan of rebuking or rudeness to be honest. Both terms suggest overkill - why rebuke when you can simply offer a correction? Why communicate "I am right; you're willfully ignorant"? Respect you show a coworker or employee should be the minimum respect you show a brother or sister in Christ.......don't you think?

Well you havent told me any differences you see between rebuke and rudeness, which was my question. I dont think "I am right, and you're willfully ignorant' is either correction or rebuke in light of 2 Tim 3 where it says scripture is useful for it, Saying I am right is not the same as God is right according to what His scripture says.