You Know You're a Pharisee If...

[aspen]

aspen2,
Well I was talking about teaching and correcting believers.

Well you havent told me any differences you see between rebuke and rudeness, which was my question. I dont think "I am right, and you're willfully ignorant' is either correction or rebuke in light of 2 Tim 3 where it says scripture is useful or it, Saying I am right is not the same as God is right according to what His scripture says.

Fair enough. The difference between rebuking and rudeness is ........rebuking is standing your ground against 2,000 year old believers who were trained as Pharisees and are now believers, but still believe they are in charge - they were educated, but did not have a clue about how to live out the gospel. Rebuking reminded ancient followers of their God given authority to confront their former teachers without being intimidated by their pride, based in education without heart - in order to bring followers in line with mind / heart / will belief.

Rudeness is meeting ego with ego. It is correcting a person - even correcting them with the truth, but reveling in the correction. It is more concerned with the glory of self, rather than the saving of souls. It is mistaking victory with truth. Truth does not need to be defended or ratified. It is true whether we believe it or not.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2

rebuking is standing your ground against 2,000 year old believers who were trained as Pharisees and are now believers, but still believe they are in charge - they were educated, but did not have a clue about how to live out the gospel.

Really? 2 Tim 3 is addressed to believers, no mention of a specific sort, though it would presumably be mainly gentile rather than Jewish. So where did you get the Pharisees bit from?

Rudeness is meeting ego with ego. It is correcting a person - even correcting them with the truth, but reveling in the correction. It is more concerned with the glory of self, rather than the saving of souls. It is mistaking victory with truth. Truth does not need to be defended or ratified. It is true whether we believe it or not.

That is a bit judgmental and I disagree with you. Rudeness for me would be have to be personal remarks rather than addressing what the scripture says.
But 2 Tim 3 is about equiping saints for every good work. I dont see how you could see correcting as personal glory when its equipping others for every good work in Christ.

 

[aspen]

Aspen2
Really? 2 Tim 3 is addressed to believers, no mention of a specific sort, though it would presumably be mainly gentile rather than Jewish. So where did you get the Pharisees bit from?

That is a bit judgmental and I disagree with you. Rudeness for me would be have to be personal remarks rather than addressing what the scripture says.
But 2 Tim 3 is about equiping saints for every good work. I dont see how you could see correcting as personal glory when its equipping others for every good work in Christ.

I agree that Timothy is addressed to believers - believers who were once Jewish and taught by Pharisees or were actually Pharisees, themselves. The Jewish people were taught to believe that they were God's chosen people and based on the history of the OT, they were not easily corrected. Times have changed.

As far as being judgmental towards rude people - I am. It is counter to the gospel. If you have not encountered rudeness from saints towards others - even when the other people are dead wrong - you really need to take a tour of this board.

 

[Shirley]

It breaks my heart. It never ends. I pray for all of us and then I do the same thing. I judge Christ's Brothers and Sisters. I get mad at Pharisee's and then I lower the boom on someone! Oh Father please forgive me!!!!!

 

[aspen]

It breaks my heart. It never ends. I pray for all of us and then I do the same thing. I judge Christ's Brothers and Sisters. I get mad at Pharisee's and then I lower the boom on someone! Oh Father please forgive me!!!!!

AMEN

 

[Comm.Arnold]

#2 – I made it my goal to catch people doing something wrong and condemn them rather than seeing them with the same eyes that Jesus saw me with, thus causing me to be broken for them and reach out to them with compassion and a genuine concern.

Lately this one has been causing me problems it gets in the way of me seeing the brighter side of life.

 

[Strat]

Starting to wonder Strat, if you are afraid of emotion. Are all emotional responses attempts to control you? Are emotions a normal part of the human response? mind / heart / will are equally susceptible to temptation and redemption. Without emotion, our faith is all in our head - we are called to turn all of ourselves over to Christ.


On another note....

I am seeing a disconnect - so many people on this board mourn the freedom we used to have in the US in the good old days and warn against further totalitarianism at the hands of communists like Obama and the current police state; but also preach a fatalism about the world. Not only is the world doomed, but we are in for as much torture and destruction as the imagination can provide - and we deserve it all.


So, if we are doomed - why complain about our loss of freedom? Isn't it par for the course, in your vision of the end?

Afraid of emotion ? no,it is my constant and unwelcome companion that i am all too familiar with...i sometimes question why God gave them to us at all seeing as how they for the most part a hinderence...we are doomed in the context of this life...every grave and funeral proves it.I had a dream once ,i was walking and all of a sudden i felt myself fading away as if i were melting like a snowflake on warm ground and when i woke up the feeling came over me that this is what it feels like to die..death is the Christian's ultimate and final redemption...it is not to be feared.

 

[aspen]

Afraid of emotion ? no,it is my constant and unwelcome companion that i am all too familiar with...i sometimes question why God gave them to us at all seeing as how they for the most part a hinderence...we are doomed in the context of this life...every grave and funeral proves it.I had a dream once ,i was walking and all of a sudden i felt myself fading away as if i were melting like a snowflake on warm ground and when i woke up the feeling came over me that this is what it feels like to die..death is the Christian's ultimate and final redemption...it is not to be feared.

so mind....good?

emotion....bad?

Emotion is a huge part of our humanity and will certainly be redeemed, along with the rest of our fallen nature. No reason to deny it. I have found fallen nature of the mind to be just as (if not more) tricky to deal with as emotion.

Based on the gospel account Jesus was very emotionally expressive, especially for a man living in his culture.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jesus did not scold all the Pharisees all the time. Nichodemus was a Pharisee and came to learn from Jesus.
Liberalism is very legalistic, despite claiming it isnt. Faith in Christ is coming to terms with Christ as Lord. If people believe Jesus Christ is the truth the way and the life they wont believe they have it right, but will believe Christ does. Believers will help other believers come to terms with the truth. It is the heart that God seeks.

But liberalism has this attitude that believers must not place burdens on other believers, yet the question is, if people find things a burden then the question is how can they be believers in the first place? This gets liberalism even more angry.

The Pharisees excluded people for who they were and their circumstances, Jesus Christ's NT teaching included people in repenatnce regardless of who they were, but in repentance. To the rich man who kept all the commands but one, Jesus sent away because his heart was not right, because he has a barrier, a condition. To Zaccheus who responded by yielding his barrier, Jesus credited.

aspen2
This is typical twisting liberal nonsense on your part. Timothy 2 is not addressed just to Jewish believers, but to all believers, especially as Paul’s ministry was primarily to Gentiles? That is not the context and it says ‘all scripture’ and ‘God’s people’.
Furthermore, Jesus who was a Jew, came first to the Jews, did not abolish any of the OT and said salvation comes from the Jews. So the Jewish people were right to believe that they were God's chosen people. Sadly they mostly did not live up to the example God intended them to set.

even when the other people are dead wrong - you really need to take a tour of this board.

If they are dead wrong then they need correcting dont they. But 2 Tim 3 is about equipping saints for every good work. I don’t see how you could see correcting as personal glory when its equipping others for every good work in Christ.

 

[aspen]

Why is it when people untie the irrational, nationalistic reasoning of the conservative mindset, they are accused of generating 'typical liberal nonsense'? I mean, how dare anyone think one inch out of the box....lol. Of course, Jon Stewart has made a fortune exposing conservative illogical arguments and spin, 4 days a weeks for the past 10 years or so and it is still highly amusing to watch so maybe I should just let the conservative spin machine continue just for entertainment sake....

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

Why is it when people untie the irrational, nationalistic reasoning of the conservative mindset, they are accused of generating 'typical liberal nonsense'?

Which is more liberal nonsesne. Care to address the scripture? They dont unite the irrational, nationalist reasoning.

 

[aspen]

Aspen2,
Care to the scripture?

Sure, I would love to, as soon as you bother to quote me in full sentences as well as context.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,
Sometimes when ether scripture is cited and quoted you call it conservative mindset. Whilst it may be right to imply liberal mindset is ungodly and unscriptural, the scripture is the word of God, and calling conservative mindset is attributing the word and thus mindset of God to human wisdom. That cant be right.

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
Sometimes when ether scripture is cited and quoted you call it conservative mindset. Whilst it may be right to imply liberal mindset is ungodly and unscriptural, the scripture is the word of God, and calling conservative mindset is attributing the word and thus mindset of God to human wisdom. That cant be right.

I think you have no idea what a conservative viewpoint is.

It is like you are insulted when people refer to an idea that you believe is true as conservative. LOL, In your mind there is truth and there is falsehood or lies or liberalism - all three terms are interchangeable and in need of correction by the truth, which is obvious.

Unfortunately, this was the biggest stumbling block for the Pharisees - the were DEAD RIGHT

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

I think you have no idea what a conservative viewpoint is.

The point being I couldnt care less, its the word of God that counts.

 

[aspen]

Aspen2,
The point being I couldnt care less, its the word of God that counts.

Indeed. It shows.

Who cares about the hunger of the disciples, right? They were breaking the Sabbath!

 

[Shirley]

You might be a Pharisee if you find the need to label people. God created us all unique. He gave each one of us different experiences and understanding. I told him i wanted to know everything and he told me I did not need to know. I needed to walk in the spirit and listen to his voice. If I thought i knew everything then I could be a little god and Judge you because your experience was different from mine. Now I am glad that God said no when I wanted to know all truth. I need to walk in Christ so that I will do the stuff God want's me to do. I love you all my brothers and sisters but i must say that your know it all attitudes make me cry often! No you don't know i am here praying for you all. I am saying this in response to many different threads I have read recently and i must say that my Spirit is deeply grieved. Yes It hurts that we don't love each other better!

 

[aspen]

You might be a Pharisee if you find the need to label people. God created us all unique. He gave each one of us different experiences and understanding. I told him i wanted to know everything and he told me I did not need to know. I needed to walk in the spirit and listen to his voice. If I thought i knew everything then I could be a little god and Judge you because your experience was different from mine. Now I am glad that God said no when I wanted to know all truth. I need to walk in Christ so that I will do the stuff God want's me to do. I love you all my brothers and sisters but i must say that your know it all attitudes make me cry often! No you don't know i am here praying for you all. I am saying this in response to many different threads I have read recently and i must say that my Spirit is deeply grieved. Yes It hurts that we don't love each other better!

Hi Shirley! Thanks for your post. You have pointed out a real problem - do you have a solution for me to consider? I feel like I am trying to respond in a godly way, but I may be wrong because I am seeing no resolution. I have always liked your posts and I appreciate your feedback.

 

[Shirley]

Wow Aspen. I have been praying about the way people are singled out and labeled up here ever since I came here. It has been hurting me for a long time. i love all my Christian Brothers and Sisters so much and I think that God allows us to believe one way or another depending upon the group he wants us to reach. Jesus said not to worry about what he was doing with another servant. whats that verse that says to your own master you stand or you fall. I have no right to judge my brothers and sisters even when I know for sure they have beliefs that are wrong. How do I know what God has for them? Not my place to rock their boat and make them confused and miserable knowing they know nothing. I want to walk in the Spirit and have wisdom which does not mean I have to be smart or intelligent at all. I just need to be obedient to what God tells me and mind my own business about what he tells you. On the other hand if I know God want's me to teach something then I will fearlessly do so.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

This article seems to say that everything is negotiable and the way is wide..it isn't.

i find myself having to agree with you again