You Probably Believe This Lie

[Wrangler]

Wow. It’s amazing to me how one Bible verse that is inexcusably misunderstood

Wrong. I referenced numerous verses. Just use the one to juxtapose against the foolish manmade OSAS doctrine.

 

[amigo de christo]

I

I don’t doubt you a bit, but I would love to see this on the record from some sermon or speech....I don’t want to be in error when I accuse this Devil of Blasphemy ...is he REALLY that deceived?

i once went to the library and read a bit of the book about pope francis . His springtime book or something like that .
It was depressing as heck . My advice , follow not the popes nor the all inclusive abraham accord stuff either .

 

[Gospel Believer]

i once went to the library and read a bit of the book about pope francis . His springtime book or something like that .
It was depressing as heck . My advice , follow not the popes nor the all inclusive abraham accord stuff either .

Never heard of that Abraham accord thing....can you fill me in?

 

[Gospel Believer]

Wrong. I referenced numerous verses. Just use the one to juxtapose against the foolish manmade OSAS doctrine.

Jesus started OSAS with this—— “ If you hear my word and Believe in the One that sent me, you Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”
What part of “ Never” do you fail to understand ?
Nobody has been able to weasel their way out of THIS verse yet! Wanna give it a shot?

 

[rockytopva]

In order to believe the Lie that you can lose your Salvation , you must first believe the additional Lie that you Earned your Salvation....

Comments?

Glad I don't live in Ohio!

 

[Gospel Believer]

Glad I don't live in Ohio!

So where are “ you” from ? Podunk, Arkansas ?

 

[360watt]

In order to believe the Lie that you can lose your Salvation , you must first believe the additional Lie that you Earned your Salvation....

Comments?

These do go hand in hand. Comes down to the owner of the eternal salvation. If the owner of the salvation is us.. then of course we can take and leave it.. even after getting it.. like a material gift.

But according to scripture.. the eternal life is given.. unearned. Jesus keeps it. So if it is unearned and Jesus keeps it, how do we lose it?

We can't.

John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24 and Romans 10 among many other verses.

 

[360watt]

What about the scriptures that say those who endure until the end will be saved? (Matthew 10:22; 24:12, 13; Mark 13:13)
The Apostle Paul's comment at Hebrew 3:14? Time and again Paul likens the Christian's course to a race that must be finished.(Hebrews 12:1) To enter the race, sinners must take the steps necessary for salvation: hearing and accepting the truth of the word of God, believing in Jesus Christ and his ransom sacrifice, repenting of their sins and being baptized. In this way, they get saved “from this crooked generation,” as Peter exhorted those gathered at Pentecost. Unbelievers are outside the race, having failed to enter by getting “saved.”(Acts 2:37-40; 16:31-33; Romans 10:13,14)

Paul says concerning this race, “Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize?” In the Christian race, Paul indicates the “one” who receives the prize is anyone who finishes the race. Therefore, Paul urges, “So run that you may obtain it.” Then, using himself as an example to make the point of his illustration, he continues: “I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”(1Timothy 6:19; 1Corinthians 9:24-27)

Evidently the apostle, who surely was a “saved” Christian, believed that even he could be “disqualified” from the race. Yet as long as he continued to ‘run that he might obtain’ the prize, thus remaining in the race, salvation was assured. This is why Christians who remain in the race can be said to ‘have everlasting life.’ But if they should ever quit the race, they are “disqualified,” losing their hold on everlasting life.


So, Paul follows up his remarks on the Christian’s race by cautioning about the danger of overconfidence. Using the example of the Israelites who were saved through the Red Sea, yet fell to wrongdoing in the wilderness, he warned: “We [“saved” Christians] must not put the Lord to the test.” Then, driving his point home, he declared: “Let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.” Yes, it could happen, even to “saved” ones.(1Corinthians 10:1-12)
This is why, throughout his writings, Paul consistently emphasized his own need to stay in the race. For example, of his hoped-for reward of the resurrection, he said: “I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.” It was only after Paul neared the end of his life that he wrote: “I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.” At this point in his life, he could finally say with confidence: “Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award me on that Day.”(Philippians 3:11-14; 2Timothy 4:6-8)


Paul’s view of his own salvation, then, is consistent with Jesus’ comments mentioned about ‘enduring to the end’ to be saved.
Also compare scripture such as Revelation 2:10; 3:11,12.

He who endures to the end will be saved.. the context around this verse is escaping/being delivered from trials and tribulations. It's not about receiving eternal life.

Different kinds of salvation in the bible. One is eternal. The other is not about eternal salvation but daily deliverance.. or life deliverance. One is not dependent on the other.

 

[amigo de christo]

Never heard of that Abraham accord thing....can you fill me in?

This thing is huge . trump helped usher it in . The pope has done more on this than all combinded .
The claim is the three main religoins , jews , christains , muslims are ALL of the abrahamic faith .
They do include all religoins . This is huge now . Danny , a jew and scores of others
have found what they call is the solution to world peace and plan to bring this to the entire world .
Its all about that unfication of the religions to serve as one stuff .
If JESUS told even the unbelieving jews they were of their father the devil
what on earth makes them think that even muslims are part of us .
THE GOSPEL that saves IS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS .
And if a jew or gentile rejects CHRIST , THEY REJECTED GOD , no matter how much
they holler His name . Both sides align with this thing , its solution of the all inclusion delusion .
Its all about world peace and safety too .
Keep that in mind . It dishonors the SON , thus it dishonors the FATHER .
As for the reminder about peace and safety , go peek at thessolonians .
For when they shall say .....................
Folks have no idea WHO this is leading them too , let alone the perdition it ends with .
STAY GLUED TO THE BIBLE and let none be moved away from the hope of the gospel
into a delusional hope of the delusion of the all inclusion for world peace , safety , unity .
Cause that hope IS FALSE and it saves none .

 

[Gospel Believer]

This thing is huge . trump helped usher it in . The pope has done more on this than all combinded .
The claim is the three main religoins , jews , christains , muslims are ALL of the abrahamic faith .
They do include all religoins . This is huge now . Danny , a jew and scores of others
have found what they call is the solution to world peace and plan to bring this to the entire world .
Its all about that unfication of the religions to serve as one stuff .
If JESUS told even the unbelieving jews they were of their father the devil
what on earth makes them think that even muslims are part of us .
THE GOSPEL that saves IS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS .
And if a jew or gentile rejects CHRIST , THEY REJECTED GOD , no matter how much
they holler His name . Both sides align with this thing , its solution of the all inclusion delusion .
Its all about world peace and safety too .
Keep that in mind . It dishonors the SON , thus it dishonors the FATHER .
As for the reminder about peace and safety , go peek at thessolonians .
For when they shall say .....................
Folks have no idea WHO this is leading them too , let alone the perdition it ends with .
STAY GLUED TO THE BIBLE and let none be moved away from the hope of the gospel
into a delusional hope of the delusion of the all inclusion for world peace , safety , unity .
Cause that hope IS FALSE and it saves none .

Thanks for the info.....of course all of their claims are nonsense....here is all one really needs to know about the Muslims and the Jews —— they sometimes refer to Jesus as “ A” son of God......Christians know and confess that Jesus Is “ THE” Son Of God......it’s the difference between Heaven and Hell.....

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus started OSAS with this—— “ If you hear my word and Believe in the One that sent me, you Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”
What part of “ Never” do you fail to understand ?
Nobody has been able to weasel their way out of THIS verse yet! Wanna give it a shot?

No weaseling. Demons believe this. Everything that exists is finite. Everything. Your failure is legion. Just what do you suppose believing means? Do you suppose the gates of heaven will be breached by mere lip service?

I referenced Jesus ALSO saying unflavored salt is thrown away and branches that do not produce fruit are burned. This is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of OSAS. You just ignore this, along with sinning after having such knowledge having no sacrifice to cover.

 

[Gospel Believer]

No weaseling. Demons believe this. Everything that exists is finite. Everything. Your failure is legion. Just what do you suppose believing means? Do you suppose the gates of heaven will be breached by mere lip service?

I referenced Jesus ALSO saying unflavored salt is thrown away and branches that do not produce fruit are burned. This is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of OSAS. You just ignore this, along with sinning after having such knowledge having no sacrifice to cover.

Your big on that “ demon” thing aren’t you? God saves people because of their FAITH......That “ Faith” is putting your Trust in things that you haven’t seen....I Believe Jesus arose from the Dead even though I never actually saw it....that is Faith....The Demons have actually “ seen” God and Jesus in Heaven and all the rest.......it takes absolutely NO Faith to believe in things that you have actually seen.....the demons missed their chance eons ago.....having any Faith is an impossibility for them now.....and even beyond this , one gets Saved by turning to Jesus as a Lost Sinner in order to obtain Forgiveness—- no demon has ever done this....nor will they....
I’ll address your other confusion later.....it’s nap time...

 

[atpollard]

Jesus started OSAS with this—— “ If you hear my word and Believe in the One that sent me, you Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”
What part of “ Never” do you fail to understand ?
Nobody has been able to weasel their way out of THIS verse yet! Wanna give it a shot?

What verse is that ... I could not find that combination of words in any translation of any verse and wanted to read both the original and the surrounding context.

 

[360watt]

What verse is that ... I could not find that combination of words in any translation of any verse and wanted to read both the original and the surrounding context.

Read John 5:24 and Romans chapter 10.

 

[atpollard]

Read John 5:24 and Romans chapter 10.

Thank you!

“If you hear my word and Believe in the One that sent me, you Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”

• John 5:24 [NASB95] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
• John 5:24 [NKJV] "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
• John 5:24 [NIV] "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

The wording was just different enough to evade my word searches (hear, word, believe, sent).

 

[Wrangler]

Your big on that “ demon” thing aren’t you?

Ad Homenim. You’re obstinate and have nothing to say about Jesus not saving unflavored salt or branches that don’t produce fruit.

God saves people because of their FAITH.

Real faith involves action. Faith does not include the action of ongoing sinning as the verses cited testifies. I look forward to your thoughtful rejoinder.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another good one,

1 John 5:1

ESV
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

Believing that Jesus is the Christ is a mark, a characteristic of faith, that proves God has made you born of God. That is why you believe.
God grants you your faith in Christ, that is shown in many scriptures.
The interesting fact is God first makes someone born of God, then they believe, and since salvation like this is eternal, it is an accomplished work of God in your life that cannot be undone.

Your individual salvation, your faith, belief, your very life, God has given all of that to you that makes up your entire life.

While we do make a choice to believe it is an accomplished work of God that led you to that, something that none can resist. Look at the life of Saul becoming Paul. Even while persecuting the church, God was at work in Paul, but Paul was resisting God until God sovereignly moved to an extreme divine revelation.
But at that revelation Christ did for Paul, he then at that point had already made Paul born of God, otherwise Paul would still have fallen away in unbelief later on. Yet still before that God was at work directing Paul to this place in his life, even though not yet born again.

Acts 9:5
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, (hint he came before creation so was not of this creation, uncreated, but His body was created by God) and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Even His own did not receive HIM as God's Christ, only reason anyone receives Christ is God has first made them born of God.
You do not receive HIM by your will of your flesh, the will of man. It is the Spirit which gives LIFE, the flesh profits nothing!

Another example from the OT, is how Israel had seen all the might acts of God, but still, they did not believe in God, as God had not changed their heart, ears, eyes to understand. the unregenerated do not continue to follow Christ, they will all fall away eventually.

You must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. To enter the kingdom of God you must believe Jesus Christ is the Son of the Father, that HE is the I AM that came down from Heaven to do the will of God to be your savior. Being born again always come first.

Deuteronomy 29

1 These are the words of the covenant which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which He made with them in Horeb.

2 Now Moses called all Israel and said to them: “You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land— 3 the great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. 4 Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to [a]perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day.

The reason people do not enter the 'promised land' is they do not believe the promises of God.
Today the promised land is the New Covenant, eternal life with God as a citizen of Heaven.

Yet you can not come to Christ and believe in Him unless God has granted that for you, otherwise you will not believe. That is the ugly state of being bound in sin, how Satan has blinded the minds of those who do not believe who are perishing. Only Christ can set you free from Satan's mind control.

Salvation is never assigned to a group of people, it is always individually given by God.
John 6
Christ came down from HEAVEN, sent by GOD, Christ was not just a man, He was God come in the flesh, born into a body God had prepared for Himself. If Christ was only a man, he was lying when HE said HE came down from heaven.

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

 

[Scott Downey]

My post exceeded 10,000 chars? Part 2
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Christ's words also cause OFFENSE to those who are not born of God. And they leave Christ as God has not granted them to come to Christ and be saved.
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60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more.

2 Corinthians 4

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor [a]handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
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If you are spiritually minded due to God making you born of God, you will believe the scriptures, believe what Jesus taught, and you will be eternally saved with your citizenship in Heaven, not on the earth. Otherwise, you will perish in your unbelief, dying in your sins.

All the unsaved are carnally minded as they are not born of God, for them they are dead and only in the flesh, they live according to the flesh

All the saved are spiritually minded, as they are born of God, for them they are alive in the Spirit and inherit eternal life, they live according to the Spirit. God gave them spiritual life, they are spiritually alive in Christ.
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Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Wrangler]

Believing that Jesus is the Christ is a mark, a characteristic of faith, that proves God has made you born of God. That is why you believe.
God grants you your faith in Christ, that is shown in many scriptures.
The interesting fact is God first makes someone born of God, then they believe, and since salvation like this is eternal, it is an accomplished work of God in your life that cannot be undone.

Well said. The part in red is beyond what Scripture says though. Indeed, it goes against Scripture. Another verse that comes to mind is the parable of the seeds as well as Jesus telling us to reconcile with our brother before coming to the alter. It means the sin with your brother comes between you and God and it is not on him but on you to make it right.

 

[360watt]

Thank you!

“If you hear my word and Believe in the One that sent me, you Already Have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”

• John 5:24 [NASB95] "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
• John 5:24 [NKJV] "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
• John 5:24 [NIV] "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

The wording was just different enough to evade my word searches (hear, word, believe, sent).

You can add to this John 3:36, Romans 5:8.. there are many verses to support eternal life being eternal