Your Spiritual Temperature

[marks]

no .. sorry ..
this body is good-for-nothing
it will die off , needs to

only then the soul can be restored in her original one

you cant have a bugatti partly made of T-ford autoparts

I can understand your thinking, like you said, a bugatti from a model T?? But God's promise is more extreme than that:

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

@Wynona "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13.5)

This verse really hits the nail on the head!

 

[marks]

our original beings , which God created ,
were tortured in [the evil region] Mystery Babylon ,
so that our soul got seperated out from them
and was born on earth into this silly fleshy 2.0 pimped ape body .

There is much , much to say about this --
and that is 1 reason why prophets are so extensive .

Do have an open mind please : the truth is more incredible as you thought

Have an open mind to this? I'd rather stay with the teaching of the Bible, which denies this. God has proven Himself to me and so I trust Him. I don't know who you are.

Tell me if you wish, who conducted that torture? Who was/were the one/ones to do the deed?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't think evaluating yourself before God is a bad thing. Its even biblical.

Philippians 2:12 KJV

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

In Romans, Paul warns the church not to be highminded but fear.

As there a various ways "fear" is used . . . are we talking about feelings of imminent threat of harm? That kind of fear?

When we understand that our new creation is God's doing, and that He has tasked Himself with our sanctification, our very survival into His kingdom, we can understand that this passage is giving us a gift instead of burdening us with a requirement.

We are to "work out our salvation" because we HAVE our salvation". If we do.

Jesus is made unto us sanctification. Trust Him to guide you into every good work ordained. He gives the desire. Your desire to do good is not from yourself, God has given it to you, and God is working in us that we will have that desire.

Your ability to do good is likewise from God. We are to walk in it.

The one I'm speaking towards in this thread is the one who perceives that they failed again just like last hour, and what sort of Christian are they? Faith in the cross constantly meets doubt because of perceived failure.

Consider . . .

Work out your salvation (work here is katergadzomai, to perform a task)
For it is God who works in you (work here is ergon, to do work being the motive force, the actor)

We can only "work out" what God has "worked in". Until God "works in" the desire and ability, I'm not going to have it, and my efforts will be based in the strength of my character, which IS NOT the same as God's Holy Spirit changing my desires and faith from the old man to the new man.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 11:19-21 KJV

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

I think evaluating our spiritual temperature can be good. We need to make sure we are not lukewarm, after all.
You said its all about the righteousness of God given to you. The righteousness of Christ alone. But aren't we to be righteous as well?

Our own righteousness would not be able to render us acceptible to God. The person who trusts in Christ, being born again, may still have various doubts, based on unanswered questions, or undesired behaviors, or any number of reasons.

The person I'm speaking to puts more emphasis on their perceptions of themself then on the unchangeableness of Christ, thinking any moment they may be broken off as a branch, though that's not what this passage is about. We can go into it if you like. At the end of the day, I don't find this passage to contradict or negate those which teach that no one who is reborn will be lost.

Are we to be groveling in fear? Oh I hope I'm really saved!! I mean, just look at me!!

Or should that fear be a fear of trying to live the life He gives us any other way than trusting in Him, and in the righteousness of Christ?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Matthew 5:20 KJV

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

People will argue that the righteousness only comes from the imputed righteousness of Christ. It's true that the blood of Christ makes us righteous. But we are to then walk in that righteousness, abiding in Christ.

I don't think this is the flesh but rather a biblical command.

Righteousness is in our actions as well as the covering of Christ's blood and I think the Scriptures testify to this.

To the point in saying our actions are at least partly responsible for our having or keeping eternal life?

Much love!

 

[marks]

James 2:14 KJV

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

So I believe the Scriptures are pointing to faith evidenced by obedience.

I agree completely.

Now if we sin, we can confess that and be restored.

Restored in what way? We are reconciled to God in Christ, are we not?

But the reason Im saying all this is because I was told the confusing lines of "works based righteousness " as if all my attempts to be Holy were my flesh and I wasn't trusting in God's grace enough.

This goes towards my reason for starting this thread, to discuss the distinctions between God's will for us His children, and those burdens we put on ourselves, and fail at, and then question our salvation, as though we've failed God.

As a younger Christian, I felt like I was always on the verge of trying "too hard" and slipping into "works based salvation". And if that meant I wasn't trusting in Jesus's grace, that would indeed be horrible.

But the thing is, Holiness and obedience do require effort at times on my part. But that is because the flesh does not want to be Holy.

More than that, Romans 8 declares the flesh is hostile to God, and cannot, will not keep God's law.

But when I stopped listening to traditions and certain theologies and read the Scriptures, it validated my struggle.

Amen!!!

Sin desires to have us like a predator, a roaring lion seeking to devour but we must rule over it. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

Resisting is an act of faith. Obedience comes from faith, not "works based righteousness. "

These things are true as I see it. The flesh is simply unholy, and connot be different. And we most definately have a part to play in how our lives go!

I never want to take away from that. Maybe the idea I'm trying to focus on is this, to separate spirit from flesh with the Sword of God's Word. I look at the burdens we put on ourselves, or others put, and we accept, and see detriment. Just the same, there is a live and lovely baby in that bathwater that needs to be protected!

I really appreciate your responses on this!

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

Hey @marks

Thanks for your responses. There is such a thing as false condemnation and believers under this do need encouragement.

I post from a smartphone so forgive me for not multi-quoting.

The fear of the Lord, I will try to work out how to define. I don't want to just spit out an answer and then have to backtrack.

When I say restored, I mean restored to right relationship to God. I don't think every sin means we lose our relationship with God. Unbelief, however does.

Unbelief goes with sin, and if were practicing a lifestyle of sin, than there is no more sacrifice for that, but only an expectation of judgment.

That being said, I do think there are some believers that face false condemnation, which causes them to doubt that God could love them. I think thats what you were getting at in your OP and I do think it ought to be addressed.

What I don't agree with is that we never have righteousness in ourselves.

Even Cornelius in Acts 10 was considered a "devout" and "just" man.

If we can never have any righteousness in ourselves, then can I just apply Christ and keep on living in sin?

What point is there in striving to be righteous if we can never have it in ourselves anyway?

Christ gives us his righteousness but we are to walk in it.

I am enjoying this conversation. Looking forward to your response.

 

[marks]

I am enjoying this conversation. Looking forward to your response.

I am too, I'm glad you are! Once again, I want to give some thought . . . I know just what you mean about answering quickly, and having to backtrack.

One thing I can say off the top, I find two types of righteousness in Scripture. You could say righteousness is as righteousness does. We have the righteousness we are, and the righteousness we do. The righteousness we are comes from Jesus, and the righteousness we do comes from the righteousness we are, which is by the Holy Spirit.

My co-crucifixion with Christ, my rebirth from God, this renders me righteous in nature. Righteousness that I do can never make me righteous by nature.

We can have righteousness which is by the Law, yes. Many were called righteous by that standard. But Paul rejects that righteousness in favor of the righteousness that is of God by faith.

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

I am too, I'm glad you are! Once again, I want to give some thought . . . I know just what you mean about answering quickly, and having to backtrack.

One thing I can say off the top, I find two types of righteousness in Scripture. You could say righteousness is as righteousness does. We have the righteousness we are, and the righteousness we do. The righteousness we are comes from Jesus, and the righteousness we do comes from the righteousness we are, which is by the Holy Spirit.

My co-crucifixion with Christ, my rebirth from God, this renders me righteous in nature. Righteousness that I do can never make me righteous by nature.

We can have righteousness which is by the Law, yes. Many were called righteous by that standard. But Paul rejects that righteousness in favor of the righteousness that is of God by faith.

Much love!

If we are righteousness, we will do righteous things! Amen

 

[Helen]

.. no - sorry .
The ever reoccurring problem here
is that 'prophets have never been understood' , read : have been read rightly :
because much in them has been corrupted by Esau .
This is an ongoing theme in many prophet chaptyers ,
and is - lietrally "the sealed scroll" theme

i hope MODS will let me explain that in a post , soon

anyway
there is *no* scriptural evidence - as far as modern christianity is concerned -
that "God made this type body we have"
[whether semantically it has been fallen or otherwise been degraded]
but only by speculation and interpretation .

A clue for you is 'daniel and the lads in the oven' in Babylon ;
then you can study the ezekiel chapter "the cooking pot",
and see that what happened in Babylon with Daniel ,
happens in Mystery-Babylon also :

our original beings , which God created ,
were tortured in [the evil region] Mystery Babylon ,
so that our soul got seperated out from them
and was born on earth into this silly fleshy 2.0 pimped ape body .

There is much , much to say about this --
and that is 1 reason why prophets are so extensive .

Do have an open mind please : the truth is more incredible as you thought

This is all gobbledygook....
someone sold you a lemon!! Yikes! You are "adding to God word".

 

[marks]

The fear of the Lord, I will try to work out how to define. I don't want to just spit out an answer and then have to backtrack.

This is something I've spent quite a bit of time meditating on.

I think of the fear of the Lord in the same breath as the beauty of His holiness. I'm afraid of not taking hold of His gift.

For me the fear of the Lord is not that He may destroy me, He is Who saves me.

I've always remembered what a friend of mine said once. He said, "I discovered the fear of the Lord when I realized how much He can mess with my life!" Chastisment is not joyful but grievous.

Still meditating . . .

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Absolutely, and I think that is the healthy side of the coin. Constantly doubting trying to confirm, am I saved? am I still saved? is the unhealty, but coming before God to know what He has to say about me, that's the healthy way. To take His Words and see if my life conforms to them.

Something I look very much at is my internal response to God's Word, or what I believe to be God's instruction to me. I can tell when I am receiving His Word joyfully and when I flinch or cringe from His command. It's the flesh that cringes, the spirit child born from God joyfully receives from his Father.

I'm planning to come back and give more of a reply, you've given me a lot, and I want to give some thought.

Much love!

2 Corinthians 13.5: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. "

 

[farouk]

This is something I've spent quite a bit of time meditating on.

I think of the fear of the Lord in the same breath as the beauty of His holiness. I'm afraid of not taking hold of His gift.

For me the fear of the Lord is not that He may destroy me, He is Who saves me.

I've always remembered what a friend of mine said once. He said, "I discovered the fear of the Lord when I realized how much He can mess with my life!" Chastisment is not joyful but grievous.

Still meditating . . .

Much love!

@marks ; @Wynona Psalm 111 is a great reference point on the theme of Godly fear:

 

[Wynona]

This is something I've spent quite a bit of time meditating on.

I think of the fear of the Lord in the same breath as the beauty of His holiness. I'm afraid of not taking hold of His gift.

For me the fear of the Lord is not that He may destroy me, He is Who saves me.

I've always remembered what a friend of mine said once. He said, "I discovered the fear of the Lord when I realized how much He can mess with my life!" Chastisment is not joyful but grievous.

Still meditating . . .

Much love!

Someone else on hear said that the fear of the Lord is "exalted reverence". I think I can safely go with that.

 

[farouk]

Someone else on hear said that the fear of the Lord is "exalted reverence". I think I can safely go with that.

Psalm 111 itself says: "Holy and reverend is His name" (KJV rendering).

 

[marks]

Someone else on hear said that the fear of the Lord is "exalted reverence". I think I can safely go with that.

Perhaps the fear of the Lord is what results from a true humility. I look at Him, then look at myself, and tremble at His Word!

Much love!

 

[marks]

@marks ; @Wynona Psalm 111 is a great reference point on the theme of Godly fear:

Remember that we are told now that Jesus is made unto us wisdom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Someone else on hear said that the fear of the Lord is "exalted reverence". I think I can safely go with that.

I like this. For me the fear of the Lord is found in the vast difference between Him and me, His power vs. my power, understanding, wisdom, I don't care what basis we compare by, as high as the heavens are above the earth He is greater still than me, and I get that. I'm nothing, I can't tie my shoes in the morning without Him!

Who am I to question what He says? Who am I do not follow His instuction? To not follow directly at His side? How bold must I be, how daring, to step away from His ways, for even a moment? What am I thinking????

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Remember that we are told now that Jesus is made unto us wisdom.

Much love!

1 Corinthians 1.30: "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"