Your Spiritual Temperature

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Brakelite

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I heard a pastor suggest we not be “taking our spiritual temperature” all the time.

It can become an obsession constantly questioning ourselves, making ourselves crazy thinking we have to become good enough for God. Or that we have to stay good enough, or however you want to say it.
I agree that we can focus too much on our behavior. But I don't see it spiritual temperature as a guide to behavior... Or vice versa.
KJV Revelation 3:15-19
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

The above passage isn't about the odd incident of misbehavior. It's about attitude. Complacence. Lack of care. Pride. Those careless attitudes then are reflected in our works... Behavior. If we seek to correct those incidents without dealing to the root cause, it becomes a farce and a show only.
Jesus in the above passage tells us what we need to do. In order to get hot, itt is us who need to go something. Trusting in God to do something when our attitude toward Him is careless and complacent, is a waste of effort.
 

Curtis

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I heard a pastor suggest we not be “taking our spiritual temperature” all the time.

It can become an obsession constantly questioning ourselves, making ourselves crazy thinking we have to become good enough for God. Or that we have to stay good enough, or however you want to say it.

Our reconciliation to God is found in Jesus Christ's life, His righteousness, His obedience death, alone, having believed. If we try to switch that over to ourselves, as if somehow we have our hand on the spigot, and we have to figure whether we are OK with God or not, and if not, we've got to figure how to make it right again, well, I put that behind me, in faith that Jesus has reconciled me to God. Jesus never changes, so His ministry to me never never never changes, and He remains my High Priest FOREVER! Always always interceding for me!

Can you imagine?

Every out of control act, errent thought, work of the flesh, forever and always He intercedes for me! This is the joy of salvation. I am comletely free to be with my Father, my Brother, free to know my Creator, the peace and joy that is in this thought is inexpressible!

Law provokes sin, because sin is hostile to God. Living according to the knowledge of Good and Evil was not God's original design. God's original design was innocence with liberty. And He included 1 test, that if failed, would require correction. This is nothing different than is in our lives.

God gives us tests. If we do the right thing, we've become more firm in our new creation. If we do the wrong thing, we receive correction. Maybe just the emptiness of something that has no value, maybe the pain of something harmful. All these tests/temptations we get through our lives are there to show where we need work, and contribute towards our repair.

God gave humanity, in Adam, that one test, that if he did the right thing, perhaps then there would have been ripe fruit on the Tree of Life. But he did the wrong thing, and showed something about humanity, that being created good isn't enough, we need to be united to our Creator, to be as one with Him, as He alone is intrinsically good. We can have goodness, and lose it, but He cannot.

So failing the test, and the introduction of sin into humanity is now used by God to drive us into His arms, and once there, He removes the burden. Jesus forever lives to intercede for us. "Come to Me, all you who are weary, heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

And in this way, we don't have to wait until we have the incorruptible flesh before we can have pure and true intimate unbroken communion with our Creator. Because this is found not in me, not in my ability, or my good behavior, fellowship with God is found in Jesus Christ, and Him alone. His righteousness, given to me.

It is in this way that we open our hearts fully to God, trusting Him, because we KNOW He holds NOTHING against us, not now, not ever, again, it's in Jesus, and Jesus does not change. Because we are forgiven, and we know we are beloved, received, accepted, His, and He loves us, and takes us to Himself, promises to never cast us out, promises to care for all our needs, promises to sanctify us, empower us, and lets us know this will be a process, that will last over the course of our lives.

When we get out of control, when we fail to walk in the Spirit, and end up in works of the flesh, because of who we are, we hate it. The part inside that seems to want it, well, it does, that's sin that lives in us, in the flesh, that is, the old man born of Adam. Make no mistake - you are the new man born of God, and you hate sin. Isn't that true?

We can only do what we can do, and God knows that. He knows are weakness, He is sympathetic to our weakness. And He's bringing us home.

He promised.

Much love!

OSAS is refuted by Jesus when He warned the Sardis church in Revelation, that they were DEAD, that only a few in that church had not soiled their white garments, (which scripture says represents a believer being righteous), and warned them to repent, and to be overcomers, or their names would be blotted out of the book of life.

Believers do not lose their daily choice to walk in the light, or go back to walking in darkness:

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.

That’s a daily choice that we have to make.

“There’s no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”, is the half quote used frequently to prove unconditional eternal security, but the whole scripture gives us a condition:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Paul warns us that believers who walk after the flesh will not enter heaven:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do believers have security? Yes.

If we live as righteously as we can, repent when we know we’ve sinned, hear His voice and follow Him, we know we are secure. No one can force Jesus to let us out of His hand - but Jesus spews out the lukewarm, as He warned the dead church in Sardis, and warned that He blots the names of those who don’t overcome out of the book of life,

There’s no unconditional promise to save reprobates who fall away by going back to a sinful lifestyle again, who walk after the flesh and not after the spirit, who stop walking in the light as He is in the light, and walk in darkness again.

That means we can’t watch porno and walk in lust daily, without repentance, either.

 
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Curtis

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I agree that we can focus too much on our behavior. But I don't see it spiritual temperature as a guide to behavior... Or vice versa.
KJV Revelation 3:15-19
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

The above passage isn't about the odd incident of misbehavior. It's about attitude. Complacence. Lack of care. Pride. Those careless attitudes then are reflected in our works... Behavior. If we seek to correct those incidents without dealing to the root cause, it becomes a farce and a show only.
Jesus in the above passage tells us what we need to do. In order to get hot, itt is us who need to go something. Trusting in God to do something when our attitude toward Him is careless and complacent, is a waste of effort.

The deal in Jesus warning to two churches in Revelation is that the Sardis church was DEAD and warned to repent and overcome or have their names blotted out of the book of life, because they had soiled their white garments - which Revelation makes clear is the righteousness of saints.
Soiled white robes represent soiled righteousness, therefore.

But the church you cited, went beyond just defiling their white robes as Sardis did - they lost them COMPLETELY, and were absolutely naked, though they THOUGHT they were still clothed!

They had no clue they’d lost their righteousness and were naked before the Lord.

Sounds to me like they believed the lie that they could live anyway they want, as sinfully as they want, and still remain in Christ:

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

White garments are the righteousness of saints:

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

To paraphrase an old tv commercial: Got white robes?
 
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marks

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If we live as righteously as we can, repent when we know we’ve sinned, hear His voice and follow Him, we know we are secure.
It seems to me that you must have an idea that some sins are "OK" in that they won't cost you your salvation, but others will. Is that accurate? Or is the issue the volume of sins?

Much love!
 

Brakelite

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It seems to me that you must have an idea that some sins are "OK" in that they won't cost you your salvation, but others will. Is that accurate? Or is the issue the volume of sins?

Much love!
The issue of Salvation has always been about our sin that separates us from God. It is about God making us one again... The Atonement. That's all sin... There really is no such thing as a little sin or a big sin. The thing is, for all the world, sin has been dealt with as far as God is concerned. The issue we have is our unbelief. The issue we have is our doubt in God's power to remove the sin from our lives. We love to believe in forgiveness, we aren't so keen to believe in holy living.
 

Brakelite

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The righteousness we are comes from Jesus, and the righteousness we do comes from the righteousness we are, which is by the Holy Spirit.
And those things we do are born of love shed abroad from our hearts through the work of the Spirit...
KJV Romans 5:5
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
KJV Romans 13:10
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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Curtis

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It seems to me that you must have an idea that some sins are "OK" in that they won't cost you your salvation, but others will. Is that accurate? Or is the issue the volume of sins?

Much love!
There are what people call death penalty sins, listed by Paul as works of the flesh that keep believers out of heaven if they commit them without repentance.

The claim is told today that Christians don’t ever need to repent, but Jesus never got that memo - He told 4 of seven churches they had to repent of what they were doing.
 
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Curtis

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It seems to me that you must have an idea that some sins are "OK" in that they won't cost you your salvation, but others will. Is that accurate? Or is the issue the volume of sins?

Much love!
PS here’s that list of works of the flesh:

Gal 5:16 - I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Curtis

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The issue of Salvation has always been about our sin that separates us from God. It is about God making us one again... The Atonement. That's all sin... There really is no such thing as a little sin or a big sin. The thing is, for all the world, sin has been dealt with as far as God is concerned. The issue we have is our unbelief. The issue we have is our doubt in God's power to remove the sin from our lives. We love to believe in forgiveness, we aren't so keen to believe in holy living.

There are what is called by many the “death penalty sins” listed by Paul in Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 as the ones that keep the brethren out of heaven.
 

Brakelite

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There are what is called by many the “death penalty sins” listed by Paul in Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 as the ones that keep the brethren out of heaven.
Jesus would have given His life if just one person in human history had told a 'white lie', in order for that one person to be saved. When Paul said the wages of sin is death, he didn't list any exceptions. There is no sin that is excusable, that can be entertained and retained and still be saved. Repentance of all known sin, repentance of everything that the holy Spirit bring conviction of that is the fruit of the sin nature, repentance of that sin nature itself, and a hunger and thirst for righteousness is the minimum required for our entrance into glory.
 

marks

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There are what people call death penalty sins, listed by Paul as works of the flesh that keep believers out of heaven if they commit them without repentance.

The claim is told today that Christians don’t ever need to repent, but Jesus never got that memo - He told 4 of seven churches they had to repent of what they were doing.
I think all sin kills. And that all sins we commit, no matter which ones, ALL come from the corrupt flesh. NONE come from the New Creation spirit, nor can they.

Romans 5:12 KJV
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

When you say "repentance, do you mean in the sense of, "the repudiation and cessation of sin"?

From my study, I've come to understand "metanoia", the word translated "repentance", in the literal meaning of the word, the result of exchanging your mind. "Meta" = after, "noia" = mind, "metanoia" = after-mind, that is, the result of an exchange.

We were fleshy creatures with fleshy minds. We're repudiated our former way of life and have received the mind of Christ, and this is the primary way repentance is taught to the NT church.

We are most certainly, if we are engaged in works of the flesh - sin - we are most certainly to stop.

But I think there is a lot of confusion over what repentance really is, that is, the correct understanding of "metanoia", and how this impacts our Christian walk.

While we're told to put off the old man, and put on the new man, we are likewise told that we already have put on the new, and put off the old.

We have been reborn from God sharing His nature, and now we are being trained by Him to live accordingly.

Much love!