Your View

[farouk]

Your view of God is how you will interpret the word of God. For instance; if you have a view of God still handling people the way he did in the Old Testament, then you will have an Old Testament angry God syndrome. Your view of God will carry over into the New Testament and your view of your father will be distorted.

@soul man This is particularly true when it comes to the content of the Epistle to the Hebrews. It's hard to see how ppl won't see that God has in fact moved on from the types and shadows, and law keeping. Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says that what we now have is better than the law.

 

[soul man]

@soul man This is particularly true when it comes to the content of the Epistle to the Hebrews. It's hard to see how ppl won't see that God has in fact moved on from the types and shadows, and law keeping. Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says that what we now have is better than the law.

You always bring out the finer points. The types and shadows have a pull to them when studied. What I have learned when you experience the real you start to care less and less about a shadow they don't mean anything as far as spiritual life. A fun study though.

 

[Brakelite]

@soul man Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 says that what we now have is better than the law.

Indeed, the law was changed. But how, and why? For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law. What was the change in the priesthood that necessitated a change in the law...and what was that change???

 

[Nancy]

Indeed, the law was changed. But how, and why? For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law. What was the change in the priesthood that necessitated a change in the law...and what was that change???

IMHO!
The law changed through the sacrifice of Christ. It changed because God knew that no man could keep it and it was (to me) simply showing what God would not abide. BTW-we are speaking of the 10 Commandments, yes? The other 602 laws were for the Jews only to separate them from the gentiles from what I read.
The change in the priesthood, which yes, does mean a change in the law and the change IMHO-again...is the New Covenant and Grace enters through Christ. And, He will be forever a priest in the order of Melchizedek (sp?) I know there is much more to this...just wanted to chime in

 

[Brakelite]

IMHO!
The law changed through the sacrifice of Christ. It changed because God knew that no man could keep it and it was (to me) simply showing what God would not abide. BTW-we are speaking of the 10 Commandments, yes? The other 602 laws were for the Jews only to separate them from the gentiles from what I read.
The change in the priesthood, which yes, does mean a change in the law and the change IMHO-again...is the New Covenant and Grace enters through Christ. And, He will be forever a priest in the order of Melchizedek (sp?) I know there is much more to this...just wanted to chime in

I wasn't actually meaning the ten commandments in that context no. The change to the priesthood with regarding law is related to the law of Moses... Those laws associated with the services of the sanctuary. As explained in Hebrews, Jesus was not born of the tribe of Levi, therefore by law could not be a priest, therefore it necessitated a change in that law regarding priesthood.

KJV Hebrews 7
A New Priesthood Warrants a New Law
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Read further in Hebrews 8 for the fuller picture.

 

[Cooper]

The God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament. Therefore we need to maintain a unified view of God (who is immutable).

In the OT we see God bringing His wrath to bear upon His enemies, and the enemies of Israel, and also destroying the world with the Flood because of sin and evil. But since the coming of Christ, God is offering grace, mercy, and pardon to humanity, AND HOLDING HIS WRATH IN ABEYANCE. We are presently in the Age of Grace, the Gospel Age, and the Church Age.

But we also see that during the Tribulation and Great Tribulation, God will once again unleash His wrath against evildoers and enemies of God and Christ. And the wrath of God will also be the wrath of the Lamb.

I do not believe the omnipresent God (my God) is the God of one nation, namely the Jews.
.

 

[Nancy]

I wasn't actually meaning the ten commandments in that context no. The change to the priesthood with regarding law is related to the law of Moses... Those laws associated with the services of the sanctuary. As explained in Hebrews, Jesus was not born of the tribe of Levi, therefore by law could not be a priest, therefore it necessitated a change in that law regarding priesthood.

KJV Hebrews 7
A New Priesthood Warrants a New Law
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Read further in Hebrews 8 for the fuller picture.

Hebrews 8:6
"6 But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises."
Amen!
One thing that I don't understand...who are the "Jews who are not really Jews"?

 

[Cooper]

Hebrews 8:6
"6 But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises."
Amen!
One thing that I don't understand...who are the "Jews who are not really Jews"?

Very quickly, as far as I can make out, they are the descendants of Cain, and were known as the Kennites. Moses married the daughter of a pagan Kenite Priest, who was somehow related to Jethro. He was a Midianite, and they all merged with the Israelites.

 

[Enoch111]

I do not believe the omnipresent God (my God) is the God of one nation, namely the Jews.
.

Which means that you do not have a very good grasp of the Old Testament (or the New).

 

[lforrest]

In the OT, especially related to the Jews, I often see God making examples of peoples for latter generations.

This makes sense of why God would overtly destroy Sodom and Gomorrah in a spectacular way. Even coming to Abraham in person and informing him.

The early history of the Jewish people is typical of an individual's spiritual journey.

There is also the case where God reacts to us as we act towards others. And times were more violent.

 

[Heart2Soul]

In the OT, especially related to the Jews, I often see God making examples of peoples for latter generations.

This makes sense of why God would overtly destroy Sodom and Gomorrah in a spectacular way. Even coming to Abraham in person and informing him.

The early history of the Jewish people is typical of an individual's spiritual journey.

There is also the case where God reacts to us as we act towards others. And times were more violent.

I was discussing with a friend about the OT being primarily the history of the Israel Nation and the Jews....there is no history written about the other nations such as China, Germany, England, Ireland...etc....and I often wondered if Israel was the only nation that God appeared to.
The Great Commission given to all of us is to preach the gospel throughout the world...for Christ will not return until all have heard the message of salvation.
Now there are scriptures that talk about Israel's enemies....but that must surely be all those countries that surround them.

 

[Cooper]

In the OT, especially related to the Jews, I often see God making examples of peoples for latter generations.

This makes sense of why God would overtly destroy Sodom and Gomorrah in a spectacular way. Even coming to Abraham in person and informing him.

The early history of the Jewish people is typical of an individual's spiritual journey.

There is also the case where God reacts to us as we act towards others. And times were more violent.

God the judge can and does punish the wicked, and will, usually by natural means. He taught Abram there was a better way than killing his son. But woe betide the man imo who takes it upon himself to do the work of the Almighty and not only that but does it in the name of the Lord.

 

[Cooper]

I was discussing with a friend about the OT being primarily the history of the Israel Nation and the Jews....there is no history written about the other nations such as China, Germany, England, Ireland...etc....and I often wondered if Israel was the only nation that God appeared to.
The Great Commission given to all of us is to preach the gospel throughout the world...for Christ will not return until all have heard the message of salvation.
Now there are scriptures that talk about Israel's enemies....but that must surely be all those countries that surround them.

The Jews wrote their own history. Moses was long dead when this happened. It is called the law of Moses because he was a Levite of the priestly class. The four writers were known only by their initials. It would be necessary to go to Jewish sources, I forget where I read it but have seen it several times. By the way English history goes right back to the early Kings way, way back, and American history goes back to the Mayflower and the Pilgrim Fathers. It wouldn't surprise me if the native Americans don't have their own oral history.

 

[Cooper]

Which means that you do not have a very good grasp of the Old Testament (or the New).

The Jews claim Yahweh is the God of one nation. Jesus died for the whole world. What did Yahweh do?

 

[Heart2Soul]

The Jews wrote their own history. Moses was long dead when this happened. It is called the law of Moses because he was a Levite of the priestly class. The four writers were known only by their initials. It would be necessary to go to Jewish sources, I forget where I read it but have seen it several times. By the way English history goes right back to the early Kings way, way back, and American history goes back to the Mayflower and the Pilgrim Fathers. It wouldn't surprise me if the native Americans don't have their own oral history.

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that the OT only has the history of the Jews in the KJV anyway....

 

[Cooper]

Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that the OT only has the history of the Jews in the KJV anyway....

True. They strike me as being a very insular people.

 

[Nancy]

I wasn't actually meaning the ten commandments in that context no. The change to the priesthood with regarding law is related to the law of Moses... Those laws associated with the services of the sanctuary. As explained in Hebrews, Jesus was not born of the tribe of Levi, therefore by law could not be a priest, therefore it necessitated a change in that law regarding priesthood.

KJV Hebrews 7
A New Priesthood Warrants a New Law
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Read further in Hebrews 8 for the fuller picture.

Will do, Ty BL

 

[Nancy]

Very quickly, as far as I can make out, they are the descendants of Cain, and were known as the Kennites. Moses married the daughter of a pagan Kenite Priest, who was somehow related to Jethro. He was a Midianite, and they all merged with the Israelites.

Interesting take. I did a bit of looking around and reading differing views on this.
In Rev. when Jesus tells the Church of Philadelphia (gosh, I hope I belong to that Church!, lol)
"'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." Rev. 2:9

And again:
"9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Rev 3:9

Some say these are those who, during Peters ministry were (and in which, he was corrected by Paul) being circumcised because of some Jewish converts to Christianity were trying to tell them they still must live under Jewish law. Some say that the believers at Smyrna were under attack from Rome as well as from apostate Jews.

"Jesus called them all "a synagogue of Satan." This reference is very specific; Jesus is not referring to all Jews, or all synagogues, but only to a specific faction which apparently plagued the churches of both Smyrna and Philadelphia (Revelation 3:9)."
What does Revelation 2:9 mean?

In His name always!
nancy

 

[farouk]

I was discussing with a friend about the OT being primarily the history of the Israel Nation and the Jews....there is no history written about the other nations such as China, Germany, England, Ireland...etc....and I often wondered if Israel was the only nation that God appeared to.
The Great Commission given to all of us is to preach the gospel throughout the world...for Christ will not return until all have heard the message of salvation.
Now there are scriptures that talk about Israel's enemies....but that must surely be all those countries that surround them.

@Heart2Soul I love Haggai 2.7: "The desire of all nations shall come".

"Come, Desire of nations, come,
Fix in us Thy humble home;
Rise, the woman’s conqu’ring Seed,
Bruise in us the serpent’s head.
Now display Thy saving power,
Ruined nature now restore;
Now in mystic union join
Thine to ours, and ours to Thine." (Charles Wesley)

 

[Cooper]

Revelations 2:9
To the Church in Smyrna Jesus revealed this through the apostle John:
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

The saints at Smyrna were being bitterly attacked by the Jews. Historians tell of the eagerness with which these Jews sought to aid in the martyrdom of Polycarp. As Jews, they claimed to be God's chosen people, but their blasphemous behavior showed they were a synagogue of Satan. (Believers Bible)

Commentary
The afflictions of the Smyrnean Christians are likely to have been due to the persecutions they had suffered. (For this see Heb. 10:32-34, and contrast what is said of the Laodiceans in 3:17). The slander of the Jews of Smyrna is characteristic of the Jewish bitterness against Christians in this city, and is referred to by other Christian writers. These Jews would have taken the opportunity to inform against the Christians.

The church of Smyrna later cited the allegations of the Jews who accused Polycarp of resisting the state religion. They accused him of being the teacher of Asia, the father of the Christians, the puller down of our gods, who teaches not to sacrifice nor to worship them. Such Jews were no longer worthy of the name Jew, but had become a synagogue of Satan, compare Numbers 16:3 which reads the synagogue of the Lord in the LXX).

(They gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, "You take too much upon yourselves, for all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them. Why then do you exalt yourselves above the synagogue of the LORD?" Num 16:3)

The name Satan means an accuser, slanderer; this group of Jews had approximated to his nature. Naturally this is not an indication of John's view of Jews; he was a Jew himself! It reflects the depths of apostasy to which this congregation had sunk.
(New Bible Commentary 21 Century Edition. Published by Intervarsity Press, Downers Grove, Illinois, USA.)

Background
The Christians of Smyrna knew poverty because they were robbed and fired from jobs in persecution for the gospel. Early Christians joyfully accepted the plundering of their goods, knowing that they had an enduring possession in heaven (Heb_10:34). This kind of economic persecution was one important reason why Christians were poor in Smyrna. Even today, this is a common form of persecution against Christians. (David Guzik)

Jews by national descent, but not spiritually of the true circumcision. The Jews blaspheme Christ as the hanged one. As elsewhere, so at Smyrna they bitterly opposed Christianity; and at Polycarp's martyrdom they joined the heathens in clamouring for his being cast to the lions; and when there was an obstacle to this, they burnt him alive; and with their own hands they carried logs for the pile. (Jamison Fausset Brown)