Idolatry and the like in Catholicism

[DuckieLady]

This stems from a conversation between myself and @soul

So it isn't my goal to attack anyone but to approach this in a friendly open manner. So if we could have a friendly debate that would be nice.

So my main concerns with Catholicism are as follows:

1. Idolatry

I believe Catholics are committing the sin of idolatry with literal idols of the Virgin Mary and by praying for to the saints for intercession, when Christ is our intercessor. I say that there is nothing in the Bible that says to do so, rather Jesus taught to pray to the Father.

2. Idolatry and Greed

believe the large elaborate churches and the Holy See are another unnecessary form of idolatry, although I will not say some Christian churches are not guilty of the same.

Why? "The son of man had no place to rest his head." Also the part with the knocking the tables over. "You have turned my house into a den of thieves."

Also, the Pope is not Jesus.

3. Necromancy

By communication with the dead that is not praying. It is necromancy and mediumship, which was a sin so terrible in Biblical times, you were to be killed for it.

4. Demonic Invitation

I believe through necromancy and false beliefs many visitations are inaccurate as underlined in the character of how Satan works in 2 Thess 2. While the chapter may not be in direct correlation with the subject at hand, I am only saying that the chapter describes the character and explanation of how he works with false wonders and false miracles.

5. Church History

It's a downright mess. Including the long time covering up of child abuse, which still exists.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This stems from a conversation between myself and @soul

So it isn't my goal to attack anyone but to approach this in a friendly open manner. So if we could have a friendly debate that would be nice.

So my main concerns with Catholicism are as follows:

1. Idolatry

I believe Catholics are committing the sin of idolatry with literal idols of the Virgin Mary and by praying for to the saints for intercession, when Christ is our intercessor. I say that there is nothing in the Bible that says to do so, rather Jesus taught to pray to the Father.

2. Idolatry and Greed

believe the large elaborate churches and the Holy See are another unnecessary form of idolatry, although I will not say some Christian churches are not guilty of the same.

Why? "The son of man had no place to rest his head." Also the part with the knocking the tables over. "You have turned my house into a den of thieves."

Also, the Pope is not Jesus.

3. Necromancy

By communication with the dead that is not praying. It is necromancy and mediumship, which was a sin so terrible in Biblical times, you were to be killed for it.

4. Demonic Invitation

I believe through necromancy and false beliefs many visitations are inaccurate as underlined in the character of how Satan works in 2 Thess 2. While the chapter may not be in direct correlation with the subject at hand, I am only saying that the chapter describes the character and explanation of how he works with false wonders and false miracles.

5. Church History

It's a downright mess. Including the long time covering up of child abuse, which still exists.

Well I'm sure that OP won't cause any trouble, LoL. Especially if BOL finds out about it. Just be advised.

But I posted a thread on the presence of Satanism within the Vatican last year. It speaks to the same subject, as other prophetic threads on this same subject matter did:
Satanism In The Vatican

Someone else posted an interesting thread a month or so ago about the structure of the Meeting Hall being built in the shape of a serpent's head, which sounds paranoid on the surface but actually turned out to be far more spooky and credible than I expected. But I can't find at the moment. Maybe I can repost that material here later however.

I should also add to this post that I do not hate Catholics and never have. I think many truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and want the best for their denomination. But my personal take is that the fight for their denomination is over. The enemy has taken control of it and will not relinquish it now. Their best move, IMO, is to get out, and get their families out. The time when the verses that say, "Come out of her My people, lest you partake of her judgments" have begun.

It may still be several decades away before her judgment finally comes, but it is indeed coming some day.

 

[MatthewG]

This stems from a conversation between myself and @soul

So it isn't my goal to attack anyone but to approach this in a friendly open manner. So if we could have a friendly debate that would be nice.

So my main concerns with Catholicism are as follows:

1. Idolatry

I believe Catholics are committing the sin of idolatry with literal idols of the Virgin Mary and by praying for to the saints for intercession, when Christ is our intercessor. I say that there is nothing in the Bible that says to do so, rather Jesus taught to pray to the Father.

2. Idolatry and Greed

believe the large elaborate churches and the Holy See are another unnecessary form of idolatry, although I will not say some Christian churches are not guilty of the same.

Why? "The son of man had no place to rest his head." Also the part with the knocking the tables over. "You have turned my house into a den of thieves."

Also, the Pope is not Jesus.

3. Necromancy

By communication with the dead that is not praying. It is necromancy and mediumship, which was a sin so terrible in Biblical times, you were to be killed for it.

4. Demonic Invitation

I believe through necromancy and false beliefs many visitations are inaccurate as underlined in the character of how Satan works in 2 Thess 2. While the chapter may not be in direct correlation with the subject at hand, I am only saying that the chapter describes the character and explanation of how he works with false wonders and false miracles.

5. Church History

It's a downright mess. Including the long time covering up of child abuse, which still exists.

Hello Fluffy, here are some of questions to you personally,

Have you yourself had experience with any of these things in your own life?

Have you ever found out something that at first you did not know was true, and believed a lie instead of what was the truth?

What are your thoughts about the human mind, and the human heart? (The overall human condition in its natural state)

What are your thoughts about the darkness compared to the light?

What are some do you believe are some good ways, when it comes to sharing Christ Jesus with others, are some of the best ways to you when it comes to sharing the truth found in Christ Jesus, and other truths that are found in the bible?

You do not have to answer me if you do not desire :

One more question would be ; Do you believe that human beings no matter what denomination they are born and raised up into ~

What would you to this : It is possible for God to even have them be reborn in whatever denomination it is, for them to be able to see their need for God and the Lord Jesus Christ ~~ Regardless of the traditions they may set for themselves they may hold ~?

God bless and may God give the increase, for you and all here as well as all families.

Take care, and thank you for reading. Always will Gods will be leaning towards love, forgiveness, mercy, truth in gentleness, to not treat others meanly or demean others ~ Encourage, uplift, compassion. ~ Walking in spirit.

 

[DuckieLady]

Well I'm sure that OP won't cause any trouble, LoL. Especially if BOL finds out about it. Just be advised.

But I posted a thread on the presence of Satanism within the Vatican last year. It speaks to the same subject, as other prophetic threads on this same subject matter did:
Satanism In The Vatican

Someone else posted an interesting thread a month or so ago about the structure of the Meeting Hall being built in the shape of a serpent's head, which sounds paranoid on the surface but actually turned out to be far more spooky and credible than I expected. But I can't find at the moment. Maybe I can repost that material here later however.

I should also add to this post that I do not hate Catholics and never have. I think many truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and want the best for their denomination. But my personal take is that the fight for their denomination is over. The enemy has taken control of it and will not relinquish it now. Their best move, IMO, is to get out, and get their families out. The time when the verses that say, "Come out of her My people, lest you partake of her judgments" have begun.

It may still be several decades away before her judgment finally comes, but it is indeed coming some day.

I believe the church you mentioned is the same one with this weird "art." If you can even call it that. I don't.

I fully believe Catholics have the right intentions and are seeking the Lord's heart, but I do not say the same for the people running the church.

 

[MatthewG]

So you speak of the Organization of those whom are in power inside the confines of the Church ~ Who have authority, and all of these things?

Understand now ~ Not much more towards the people as the concern with those in authority in power leading people astray possibly ~

This is why as believers we should express the truth about God, and the Lord Jesus Christ and how their is freedom in Christ Jesus rather than having someone make demands on you and give you a list full of must dos, rather than having faith in Christ Jesus ~ And Loving God and Loving others?

Fluffy?

 

[DuckieLady]

Hello Fluffy, here are some of questions to you personally,

Okay going to copy and paste your questions so it's easier and I don't miss any.

Have you yourself had experience with any of these things in your own life?

As far as Catholicism goes, I attended a Celtic Catholic school and did participate in some of the functions but I was never Catholic. It is also not the same as Roman Catholic.

Have you ever found out something that at first you did not know was true, and believed a lie instead of what was the truth?

Yes.

What are your thoughts about the human mind, and the human heart? (The overall human condition in its natural state)

The Lord puts the law on man's heart and I can't be sure how else to answer the question. I apologize.

What are your thoughts about the darkness compared to the light?

Only takes a small match to light up the darkness

What are some do you believe are some good ways, when it comes to sharing Christ Jesus with others, are some of the best ways to you when it comes to sharing the truth found in Christ Jesus, and other truths that are found in the bible?

Listening and openness, as well as gentleness.

Do you believe that human beings no matter what denomination they are born and raised up into?

I think you meant to finish this to ask if I believe all denominations lead to Heaven. I believe that a person can have the intentions of knowing Christ but intentions do not extinguish the truth. For instance, polygamist cults. So no.

It is possible for God to even have them be reborn in whatever denomination it is, for them to be able to see their need for God and the Lord Jesus Christ ~~ Regardless of the traditions they may set for themselves they may hold ~?

No, and the reason why is Mark 7. Jesus specifically spoke against this. Particularly we can look at verses 6-8 as a summary but it should be read in full context.

"Jesus replied, “You hypocrites, Isaiah described you beautifully when he wrote—‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’. You are so busy holding on to the traditions of men that you let go the commandment of God!”

 

[DuckieLady]

Does God willingly allow us to ignore his commandments and obedience to him, for the sake of man's tradition and authority? Is a turned head from him a sign of his love?

"It is better to fear God than men." So who do we love and worship more?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I fully believe Catholics have the right intentions and are seeking the Lord's heart, but I do not say the same for the people running the church.

Agreed.

I believe the church you mentioned is the same one with this weird "art."

Yes. That entire building is shaped like a snake's head, which is rather disturbing to say the least.

This is why there must come a rebellion. The Catholic church will use this term in a derogatory way, as if to say those who disobey "the Mother Church" are walking in rebellion against God. What they will in reality be rebelling against is a church that is now a shell of its once former self, and appears Christian on the outside but is demonic within. There are other religions like this that will be doing the same thing, including Gnosticism. Satan's designs are often much the same; make a religion appear godly on the surface when it is nothing of the kind beneath the surface. The same will be true of Islam.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Fluffy, and thank you for answering some of the questions.

Wonder what life was like in Celtic Catholic school ~ Seems that there are many different inter-denominations out in the world. There are many of them. And there is only one Christ Jesus ~ Who died to sin once, and pleased God by His Sacrifice, risen again by the Father. Thus we have the Gospel of Christ to read and learn from, along with the other books of the bible.

To have had it to be known to believe in a lie and not in truth as well.

Thank you for your honesty of not being able to articulate what your thoughts are on the human mind, and human heart. (The over all condition of man/woman). Do agree with you that those who are believers - God writes on their mind and hearts renewing them by the spirit.

You are right only a small match can light up a full room of darkness. It is wonderful that the Lord Jesus Christ was and is the light of all mankind. Men/women/children.

Yes agree about listening, and openness, along with gentleness by the spirit of Christ/holy spirit believing and trusting in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Fair answer and can understand ; that there are some people who go so far away from Christ in darkness, that they live to indulge the flesh rather than even entertain the thoughts about God or Christ Jesus.

I personally people that might be believers in Mormonism can be born again while being with-in the confines of that organization ; and so for any other Denomination ---

God's ability to change a person is not limited ~ It requires hearing about the word and by hearing the word it increases a persons faith.

The thing is ~~ How can we help others? - ~ Of course when the time permits you to allow Christ Jesus to come through for another person takes faith and trust in God and not reliance on ourselves.

Of course it is always a choice.

 

[DuckieLady]

Agreed.


Yes. That entire building is shaped like a snake's head, which is rather disturbing to say the least.

This is why there must come a rebellion. The Catholic church will use this term in a derogatory way, as if to say those who disobey "the Mother Church" are walking in rebellion against God. What they will in reality be rebelling against is a church that is now a shell of its once former self, and appears Christian on the outside but is demonic within. There are other religions like this that will be doing the same thing, including Gnosticism. Satan's designs are often much the same; make a religion appear godly on the surface when it is nothing of the kind beneath the surface. The same will be true of Islam.

Correct!

2 Corinthians 11:14-15

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Correct!

2 Corinthians 11:14-15

And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Yes, LoL. The trouble is in discerning one spirit from another, just as during New Testament times. This is why the spiritual gifts are still necessary, and why the New Testament writers defined certain doctrines as coming from the Lord and others as coming from the Devil, and why they said to test the spirits based on these doctrines. Circumstances have changed somewhat as far as what false doctrines are presented today, but they can still be tested by the same means: Do they match with genuine Christian doctrine and practice as laid down by the apostles of our Lord in the pages of the New Testament.

 

[DuckieLady]

Btw @Hidden In Him What is BOL? Do you mean @soul ? If so, I'm safe. Lol! The thread was his idea.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Btw @Hidden In Him What is BOL? Do you mean @soul ? If so, I'm safe. Lol! The thread was his idea.

Bread of Life. You will most certainly know him when he shows up, LoL.

Soul is a gentle "soul" compared to the one I am referring to.

 

[MatthewG]

What are your thoughts about Authority when it comes to people in Church @FluffyYellowDuck ?

(This is only involving Church - As Christians we are to obey the laws of the land and our Government as far as it is not infringing on ~ The rights of people who are allowed to have Church and the right to practice their own ways)

So when it comes to church only ~ Does Authority in a church has a place ? Does the Authority have to keep track of each individual even identifying sins amongst each other? Should the said Authority have the right to kick out others if they are not believing the same way? Should the said Authority call out whatever struggles you are having in the flesh that it must be called out to the entire fellowship hall?

Overall is it a good thing to have a man/woman over you demanding what you should do, telling you what you should do, and that you should follow and obey everything they say ~~ Opposed to looking towards God looking towards the Lord Jesus Christ ~ Looking towards heavenly things and going to the only Authority that exist today...

God Himself? ~~ ( I am okay with church though personally haven't went in a few years now ~ and have been in and out of them my whole life )

~ Being a believer in God doesn't give me authority over anyone... let me just straight up tell you no way is right to try to dominate over someone and their faith.

You can go to church if you desire, but who is to say it is a must to have fellowship with God?

Can you not have fellowship with God through reading scriptures, praying, thanking, having God, and the Lord Jesus Christ on your mind and thoughts while also praying for others, and loving others in and through out your life time ?

( Am personally a believer that anyone can get to God without going to a church ~ and there is no Religious Demands held over the person ~ God calls people to believe on His Son Jesus Christ - hold on to faith ~ trust and Love God, and Love Others. ~ Things just got a whole lot more 'restful as you stated earlier'. )

Thank you for bearing with.

 

[DuckieLady]

Bread of Life. You will most certainly know him when he shows up, LoL.

Soul is a gentle "soul" compared to the one I am referring to.

Nobody say anything offensive then

Dont worry I'll delete it soon

 

[Hidden In Him]

Nobody say anything offensive then

Dont worry I'll delete it soon

What on earth will I ever do with you, LoL.

 

[MatthewG]

My name is Slim Shady

Also Limp BIzicuts

And pope benedicts rap rock battle


lol.

 

[DuckieLady]

What are your thoughts about Authority when it comes to people in Church @FluffyYellowDuck ?

(This is only involving Church - As Christians we are to obey the laws of the land and our Government as far as it is not infringing on ~ The rights of people who are allowed to have Church and the right to practice their own ways)

So when it comes to church only ~ Does Authority in a church has a place ? Does the Authority have to keep track of each individual even identifying sins amongst each other? Should the said Authority have the right to kick out others if they are not believing the same way? Should the said Authority call out whatever struggles you are having in the flesh that it must be called out to the entire fellowship hall?

Overall is it a good thing to have a man/woman over you demanding what you should do, telling you what you should do, and that you should follow and obey everything they say ~~ Opposed to looking towards God looking towards the Lord Jesus Christ ~ Looking towards heavenly things and going to the only Authority that exist today...

God Himself? ~~ ( I am okay with church though personally haven't went in a few years now ~ and have been in and out of them my whole life )

~ Being a believer in God doesn't give me authority over anyone... let me just straight up tell you no way is right to try to dominate over someone and their faith.

You can go to church if you desire, but who is to say it is a must to have fellowship with God?

Can you not have fellowship with God through reading scriptures, praying, thanking, having God, and the Lord Jesus Christ on your mind and thoughts while also praying for others, and loving others in and through out your life time ?

( Am personally a believer that anyone can get to God without going to a church ~ and there is no Religious Demands held over the person ~ God calls people to believe on His Son Jesus Christ - hold on to faith ~ trust and Love God, and Love Others. ~ Things just got a whole lot more 'restful as you stated earlier'. )

Thank you for bearing with.

Well first of all, the idea for the thread was soul's idea.

But as for this part "let me just straight up tell you no way is right to try to dominate over someone and their faith." You can't dominate a person, yes, but 2 Timothy 2 speaks on gentle correction and it is within our responsibility to speak out on the matters of God.

"Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth."

As for authority,
Acts 5:29 - "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. "

Churches do have authority and church discipline must exist, but the leaders will be judged the harshest on judgement day.

 

[Hidden In Him]

My name is Slim Shady

Also Limp BIzicuts

And pope benedicts rap rock battle


lol.

I think there are way too many Fruit Loops around here.

 

[MatthewG]

Well first of all, the idea for the thread was soul's idea.

But as for this part "let me just straight up tell you no way is right to try to dominate over someone and their faith." You can't dominate a person, yes, but 2 Timothy 2 speaks on gentle correction and it is within our responsibility to speak out on the matters of God.

"Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth."

As for authority,
Acts 5:29 - "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. "

Churches do have authority and church discipline must exist, but the leaders will be judged the harshest on judgement day.

No idea who soul is but okay. - Was just interested mainly in your own thoughts about all of these things ~

It is for me to give thanks to you for participation with me for it happens not all that often.

Here is what Paul said about dominion or dominating another persons faith:

2 Corinthians 1:24But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together with you so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm.

Thank you for your participation ~ My view is to allow freedom (Not freedom to indulge the flesh but to live by the spirit) but do understand where you are coming from; May God give you the increase and may the grace, peace, and love of God be with you, family, and all anyone else here who reads and takes anything away.

Glory be to God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise always be unto them.

@Hidden In Him ; It is for me to still enjoy some of the old music that was grown up with Not as much as it use to but do go back from time to time of the Eminem days, and Limp Bizicuts days