Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And there is really no need to tell me that I am free to believe whatever I want. For that goes to all, even to you.

Yep. In non essential, curious things that's how it is, and that's how we should leave it. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. Because it doesn't matter. Osas is a big fat nothing burger. What matters is that we heed the Bible's exhortation and keep believing to the very end.

Yes, if you find that such exhortation applies to you, then there you go.

Tong
R2874

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Rest upon the Lord and believe that He will keep you, not only on the day that you believed, but to the end. As I pointed out, it’s a matter of faith.

That's what I've been saying.........keep believing. That's what counts.

What you are saying not quite what I am saying in my post. I say that the LORD will keep you to the very end and will not lose you. On the other hand you are saying that YOU keep yourself to the end so that you will remain saved.

Tong
R2875

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Should we let it be when you hear a teaching that perverts the truth, in your reading of scriptures?

Only if it's in regard to something that actually matters.

Well, all scriptures matter to me. For all scriptures is important. They are sacred and holy. They are God’s words. All scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. That actually matters, does it not?

Tong
R2876

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s because you presume that John knows the name of the one he baptized wherein he saw the Holy Spirit coming down upon him whom he baptized. What John knew is that He is the Messiah when he baptized Him, but he did not know him as the one called by the name of Jesus.

Read Luke 1. Jesus and John the Baptist are related to each other.

They are. But that is not the issue.

Tong
R2877

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That passage does not even speak about one giving up forgiveness of sins. Read again. It’s about the question of Peter. It is about giving mercy to a brother who sinned against you just as you were given mercy by God for the sins you committed against Him.

That is not pertaining to the salvation of a Christian. For concerning the Christian’s debt, there was payment made for the forgiveness of his sins. I know you know what that payment is and who paid for it. So, that passage clearly is not about salvation.

So, I told you that the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures.

Okay, whatever, lol.
Now I am 'lol'ing at your doctrine. It's so plainly says the man was forgiven and then not forgiven that I can only laugh at your contention that the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins (the context of the passage) is no where found in the scriptures.

You may LOL all you want. But that does not in any way shape or form refute what I said.

You see the passage that way perhaps because you think it speaks and support what you believe. But we ought to read scriptures as to what they are actually teaching.

Read the passage again. It’s about Peter’s question, which goes ““Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” That is what the passage is about and not what you make it to be about.

Tong
R2878

 

[CadyandZoe]

Apparently you don’t believe that scriptures teach those chosen by God are saved and that God will keep them and Jesus will bring them home to the Father, and that nothing could change that nor prevent that from being accomplished by Jesus Christ, and it seems you believe otherwise.

That is the case when one thinks that the keeping and maintaining of what salvation he have, rest on his will and is under his control. Unless he surrender fully his will and life to God, he will continue to be in that situation, holding on and relying to himself, regarding that matter. He ought to have full confidence and trust in God concerning that. He should pray about that.

Tong
R2870

I believe that God also saves those who don't believe in OSAS. (smile) Messed up doctrine is no obstacle for him. Yes?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not ignoring any point.

Please don’t say I said what I did not actually say. Please use the quote feature.

Why John the baptist sent men to inquire of Jesus if He is the Messiah is exactly because he believes in the Messiah. That was not a matter of faith in the Messiah, but a matter that is regarding the identity of the Messiah.

Tong
R2862

I am cognizant of the fact that sometimes people ask one question, when they really mean to ask another question. For example, a woman might ask "what do you think of this dress?" she might actually be asking another question such as "can we afford this?" or "do I look fat in this dress?" or "did you forget our anniversary?"

Given the fact that we ask hidden questions, I suspect John was actually asking a different question. Question: Jesus are you the one or should we look for another? Subtext: When are you going to take your rightful place as king? Are you going to begin to reign before I am executed?

 

[Addy]

I am cognizant of the fact that sometimes people ask one question, when they really mean to ask another question. For example, a woman might ask "what do you think of this dress?" she might actually be asking another question such as "can we afford this?" or "do I look fat in this dress?" or "did you forget our anniversary?"

HAHAHA @CadyandZoe ... By this... I can tell you are MARRIED!!!

 

[Addy]

I believe that God also saves those who don't believe in OSAS. (smile) Messed up doctrine is no obstacle for him. Yes?

This is CORRECT....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read the passage again. It’s about Peter’s question, which goes ““Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

....and how the once forgiven person had his forgiveness revoked. Read it! You said that was no where to be found in scripture.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

They are. But that is not the issue.

Yes it is. You're trying to say John did not know who Jesus was.
All this ridiculous over thinking just to make it so John was not doubting when he was in prison. This is so typical of Reformed thinking. It's insufferable at times.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well, all scriptures matter to me. For all scriptures is important. They are sacred and holy. They are God’s words. All scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. That actually matters, does it not?

Of course it does. It's just that some things matter and some things don't. 'Keep believing' is what matters. Instead we have a whole Reformed movement in the church with this misplaced concern over whether or not the true believer can stop believing. What counts is that you are believing, lol!

 

[mailmandan]

So after 175 pages of arguments, how many people in the OSAS camp have now switched over to the NOSAS camp and vice versa?
That's what I thought.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What you are saying not quite what I am saying in my post. I say that the LORD will keep you to the very end and will not lose you. On the other hand you are saying that YOU keep yourself to the end so that you will remain saved.

No, that's not what 'keep believing' means, lol. You stay in he who keeps you saved by continuing to believe in he who keeps you saved.

let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So after 175 pages of arguments, how many people in the OSAS camp have now switched over to the NOSAS camp and vice versa?
That's what I thought.

That's why I've been saying leave the stupid osas debate alone and just do what the Bible says......KEEP BELIEVING! That's the part that is crystal clear but which no one talks about. Even the original Osas teaching taught that, lol! I've noticed that newer Christians don't even know about the original Osas teaching and have strayed far from it into even more absurdity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes, if you find that such exhortation applies to you, then there you go.

The day may come when I need that exhortation. Until then it is hidden in my heart.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That does not refute what I said. Besides you only presume that they truly believed when they first believed.

It does refute what you said. They had genuine saving faith in Christ (Paul himself said so), yet they fell away. But you said that is not the signature of the faith that God gives. You said God's faith is always strong, etc. Well, the fault isn't in God's faith. The fault is in whether people are going to retain God's gift of faith and believe, and continue to believe what God's gift of faith showed them to be true! Just because some people doubt, or go back to unbelief, doesn't mean they didn't have God's genuine gift of faith. The Galatians prove that.

 

[mailmandan]

That's why I've been saying leave the stupid osas debate alone and just do what the Bible says......KEEP BELIEVING!

I've been a believer now for over 22 years and to stop believing would be unfathomable to me.

 

[Addy]

WOW.... I never noticed the number of pages... but I did post the song that never ends... LOL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've been a believer now for over 22 years and to stop believing would be unfathomable to me.

That's great! And that's what counts, that you keep believing. God bless you. Let's not let an opinion on whether or not all true believers will continue to believe divide us. God's more concerned about how we get along than he is in fighting over silly doctrines.