Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

If every day of your life, you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice. And if you say you had, then that choice would no longer be there for you to consider and make.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23​

I find it very discouraging for Christianity to see how far from scripture these arguments are that are being made.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is only one faith, not many, and not as though John the baptist, the apostles, the rich, the poor, the intelligent, the unintelligent, the very loving and the not so loving, the patient and the not so patient, and so on, have different faith. They all have the same faith that comes from God.

Are you ignoring the point? According to your own words, John the Baptist didn't have the real kind of faith that comes from God.

 

[MatthewG]

In my view, a true believer in God and Jesus Christ is one who have no room of later rejecting God and Jesus Christ. If one still thinks and believes that he still have that choice, then he really haven’t truly made the choice. He ought to make the choice today and not remain in that situation.

Tong
R2857

Okay. Thank you for sharing your view, Tong.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Give up the forgiveness of your sins? Forgiveness of sins is by grace and so is not conditioned on any one’s continuance of whatever. Again this is a matter of faith.

Yes, it is a matter of faith.......continuance of faith.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14​

Did you just dodged the point? There is no such thing as giving up forgiveness of sins. When one was forgiven of his sins by God, he is forgiven of his sins. That’s a done deed. There is nothing to give up there. More so, nothing conditioned on one’s continuance of faith or whatever.

The idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures.

Tong
R2860

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If every day of your life, you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice. And if you say you had, then that choice would no longer be there for you to consider and make.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23​

I find it very discouraging for Christianity to see how far from scripture these arguments are that are being made.

Such simple arguments you can’t refute?

Today, have you made a choice, to reject Jesus or not? Since the day you made the choice of not rejecting Jesus and made the choice to accept him and believe Him, have you woke up the following day and the days thereafter having to make a choice to believe and not believe? If not, it’s because you have already made that choice, that’s why. So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.

Tong
R2861

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
There is only one faith, not many, and not as though John the baptist, the apostles, the rich, the poor, the intelligent, the unintelligent, the very loving and the not so loving, the patient and the not so patient, and so on, have different faith. They all have the same faith that comes from God.

Are you ignoring the point? According to your own words, John the Baptist didn't have the real kind of faith that comes from God.

Not ignoring any point.

Please don’t say I said what I did not actually say. Please use the quote feature.

Why John the baptist sent men to inquire of Jesus if He is the Messiah is exactly because he believes in the Messiah. That was not a matter of faith in the Messiah, but a matter that is regarding the identity of the Messiah.

Tong
R2862

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
In my view, a true believer in God and Jesus Christ is one who have no room of later rejecting God and Jesus Christ. If one still thinks and believes that he still have that choice, then he really haven’t truly made the choice. He ought to make the choice today and not remain in that situation.

Okay. Thank you for sharing your view, Tong.

You are welcome. Do you share the same view?

Tong
R2863

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Since the day you made the choice of not rejecting Jesus and made the choice to accept him and believe Him, have you woke up the following day and the days thereafter having to make a choice to believe and not believe?

Not everyday. Because not everyday is met with trials, tribulations, and the draw of this life for me to have to consciously make that choice that day. Luke 8:13, Matthew 13:21

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Such simple arguments you can’t refute?

This is what I answered...

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23​

I think you are the one who can not refute such simple scripture! But you don't need to for me (but I know you will try). The important thing is that you keep believing to the very end. That's what the Bible says. That's good enough for me. I don't need a silly osas doctrine.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.

Okay, whatever, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did you just dodged the point? There is no such thing as giving up forgiveness of sins. When one was forgiven of his sins by God, he is forgiven of his sins. That’s a done did deed. There is nothing to give up there. More so, nothing conditioned on one’s continuance of faith or whatever.

I almost responded to that part of your post and then I thought, what's the point? You'll come up with a reason why it doesn't really mean what it says or that it doesn't apply to you. Same ol' same ol'. And so I don't really want to get into the osas debate. You won't change your mind about it, so what's the use. Besides, like I say, the important thing is what we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt in scripture......keep believing.

The idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures.

For your edification, it's in Matthew 18:21-35.....

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!e23Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.f 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.g He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:21-35
​

So you see, it does exist in scripture. Whether you think it applies to you or not does not change the fact it is in fact somewhere in scripture, not nowhere in scripture. So don't tell me "the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures."

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Please don’t say I said what I did not actually say. Please use the quote feature.

I did use the quote feature. I quoted your post exactly.

Why John the baptist sent men to inquire of Jesus if He is the Messiah is exactly because he believes in the Messiah. That was not a matter of faith in the Messiah, but a matter that is regarding the identity of the Messiah.

It was a case of doubt about whether Jesus was really the Messiah. And you are the one who brought up that real faith from God doesn't doubt. So bend it any way you want to avoid the obvious fact that John was is in doubt of who Jesus is. It doesn't matter to me. The important thing is that you keep believing. I guess it's just going to be easier for you to do that because you believe in osas. Meanwhile, those of us who don't believe in osas are lost because somewhere along the line salvation and believing in Christ became all about whether you can lose your salvation or not, and not about having your sins forgiven.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Since the day you made the choice of not rejecting Jesus and made the choice to accept him and believe Him, have you woke up the following day and the days thereafter having to make a choice to believe and not believe?

Not everyday. Because not everyday is met with trials, tribulations, and the draw of this life for me to have to consciously make that choice that day. Luke 8:13, Matthew 13:21

I would guess you would not believe me of I told you, there isn’t a single day, even for a second, that came to me, even in the most difficult and trying times of my life since I believed in Jesus Christ. In trials, tribulations, and the draw of this life for me, I found those moments having me even more closer to God and fully reliant on Him. I found Him the only one who could me strength, comfort, and will to go on.

You cited Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21. Why? What is it you want to say by that?

Tong
R2864

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Such simple arguments you can’t refute?

This is what I answered...

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23​

I think you are the one who can not refute such simple scripture! But you don't need to for me (but I know you will try). The important thing is that you keep believing to the very end. That's what the Bible says. That's good enough for me. I don't need a silly osas doctrine.

Well I am not one who would even dare refute any scriptures sir.

Besides, Hebrews 10:23 isn’t about the Christian having to make a choice again whether to reject Christ or not.

And apparently, you seem to need such exhortation and seem to find Hebrews 10:23 as applying to you.

Tong
R2865

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.

Okay, whatever, lol.

Oh I see that makes you lol. It’s not even a joke. Today if you hear His voice, make that choice, and you’ll have peace not only in your mind, but in your heart. Rest upon the Lord and believe that He will keep you, not only on the day that you believed, but to the end. As I pointed out, it’s a matter of faith.

Tong
R2866

 

[marks]

Please don’t say I said what I did not actually say.

That's a lot of why I dropped out of this thread. I love discussion, good honest discussion. But that wasn't happening here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Besides, Hebrews 10:23 isn’t about the Christian having to make a choice again whether to reject Christ or not.

Of course it's not! It says to hold to our hope! Our expectation of what comes at the end of our faith.

Much love!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did you just dodged the point? There is no such thing as giving up forgiveness of sins. When one was forgiven of his sins by God, he is forgiven of his sins. That’s a done deed. There is nothing to give up there. More so, nothing conditioned on one’s continuance of faith or whatever.

I almost responded to that part of your post and then I thought, what's the point? You'll come up with a reason why it doesn't really mean what it says or that it doesn't apply to you. Same ol' same ol'. And so I don't really want to get into the osas debate. You won't change your mind about it, so what's the use. Besides, like I say, the important thing is what we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt in scripture......keep believing.

Why would I change my mind about something that scriptures teaches into something that it does not? Besides, I don’t even really know what the doctrine of OSAS exactly is. For I only believe what scriptures teach. And it teaches me that those chosen by God are saved and that God will keep them and Jesus will bring them home to the Father. And nothing could change that nor prevent that from being accomplished by Jesus Christ.

Tong2020 said: ↑
The idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures

For your edification, it's in Matthew 18:21-35.....

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times!e23Because of this, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlements, a debtor was brought to him owing ten thousand talents.f 25Since the man was unable to pay, the master ordered that he be sold to pay his debt, along with his wife and children and everything he owned.26Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.28But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.g He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’29So his fellow servant fell down and begged him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you back.’30But he refused. Instead, he went and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay his debt.31When his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed, and they went and recounted all of this to their master.32Then the master summoned him and declared, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

35That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:21-35
​

So you see, it does exist in scripture. Whether you think it applies to you or not does not change the fact it is in fact somewhere in scripture, not nowhere in scripture. So don't tell me "the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures."

That passage does not even speak about one giving up forgiveness of sins. Read again. It’s about the question of Peter. It is about giving mercy to a brother who sinned against you just as you were given mercy by God for the sins you committed against Him.

That is not pertaining to the salvation of a Christian. For concerning the Christian’s debt, there was payment made for the forgiveness of his sins. I know you know what that payment is and who paid for it. So, that passage clearly is not about salvation.

So, I told you that the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures.

Tong
R2867

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Please don’t say I said what I did not actually say. Please use the quote feature.

I did use the quote feature. I quoted your post exactly.

And I did not say what you said I said about John the baptist.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Why John the baptist sent men to inquire of Jesus if He is the Messiah is exactly because he believes in the Messiah. That was not a matter of faith in the Messiah, but a matter that is regarding the identity of the Messiah.

It was a case of doubt about whether Jesus was really the Messiah. And you are the one who brought up that real faith from God doesn't doubt. So bend it any way you want to avoid the obvious fact that John was is in doubt of who Jesus is. It doesn't matter to me. The important thing is that you keep believing. I guess it's just going to be easier for you to do that because you believe in osas. Meanwhile, those of us who don't believe in osas are lost because somewhere along the line salvation and believing in Christ became all about whether you can lose your salvation or not, and not about having your sins forgiven.

You could take that as a doubt perhaps. But it was not concerning faith in the Messiah, but on the “who” the Messiah is. You seem to forget the context of that time. It was at a time when it was not yet time that Jesus be widely known to be the Messiah, that He even instructed those whom he healed and have shown His power, and seen the miracles He did, for them to tell no one. Even when the Father revealed to Peter that Jesus is the Messiah, He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

<<<So bend it any way you want to avoid the obvious fact that John was is in doubt of who Jesus is.>>>

That’s because you presume that John knows the name of the one he baptized wherein he saw the Holy Spirit coming down upon him whom he baptized. What John knew is that He is the Messiah when he baptized Him, but he did not know him as the one called by the name of Jesus.

Tong
R2868

 

[marks]

That passage does not even speak about one giving up forgiveness of sins. Read again. It’s about the question of Peter. It is about giving mercy to a brother who sinned against you just as you were given mercy by God for the sins you committed against Him.

I find often times there are certain ones who will post lot's of references, but not the passage, and when I look up the passage, it doesn't say what they claim.

It makes me wonder, ignorance? Or something else?

Much love!