Once Saved Always Saved

[Wynona]

I almost responded to that part of your post and then I thought, what's the point? You'll come up with a reason why it doesn't really mean what it says or that it doesn't apply to you. Same ol' same ol'. And so I don't really want to get into the osas debate. You won't change your mind about it, so what's the use.

Sometimes, a debate can be successful, not because you've convinced your opponent (Let's be real, plenty of people are really attached to false doctrines. ) but because you've left a trail of breadcrumbs for an audience that may be on the fence about the issue.

I was on the fence about OSAS for a long time. But when people made good arguments backed by Scripture, it made me go back and read the Scriptures again to see if it was correct.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And I did not say what you said I said about John the baptist.

You said faith that is from God is strong, inherently strong and with power, and without a shadow of doubting.

What one needs is to have a faith that is from God, which is inherently strong and with power, and without a shadow of doubting.

Then I showed you John the Baptist's doubt, which shows the fallacy of your statement. Then you tried to bend the account of John's doubt to guard your argument. You do this a lot.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sometimes, a debate can be successful, not because you've convinced your opponent (Let's be real, plenty of people are really attached to false doctrines. ) but because you've left a trail of breadcrumbs for an audience that may be on the fence about the issue.

I was on the fence about OSAS for a long time. But when people made good arguments backed by Scripture, it made me go back and read the Scriptures again to see if it was correct.

That's encouraging. Thank you!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it teaches me that those chosen by God are saved and that God will keep them and Jesus will bring them home to the Father. And nothing could change that nor prevent that from being accomplished by Jesus Christ.

All excellent reasons to keep believing. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing in so great a Priest and Ministry.

Right now your mind is incapable of seeing how all these things can be true and one not believe in osas. You don't know how there can be a way for those to be true and osas not be true. And it isn't because there is no way to see it any other way. It's because you don't know that other way. It escapes your understanding. And so you conclude that any other way of understanding it doesn't exist.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Oh I see that makes you lol.

I'm not 'lol'ing your argument. What I'm saying is you are free to believe whatever you want about it. I'm not going to take that away from you. What's important is that you remain a believer all the way to the very end. That's what the Bible exhorts us to do and that is the important thing that matters that we can all agree on. Don't divide the brethren over a meaningless osas argument.

 

[marks]

Right now your mind is incapable of seeing

Ad hominem . . . the refuge of those lacking a real answer.

It's because you don't know that other way. It escapes your understanding. And so you conclude that any other way of understanding it doesn't exist.

This is solely your presumption.

If I were to be equally presumptive, I could suggest that you may want to study all sides of the matter, so you can make a reasoned decision of what you think the Bible means. And then we wouldn't think that you don't know any other way, because it escapes your understanding, so as to conclude that there is no other way to understand these things.

Do you see how this works?

Pure presumption!

Correct interpretations will harmonize with all relevant passages, and though you choose to not respond when I bring up those passages, yet they still do exist, and your interpretations don't reconcile. For instance, Colossians 3:1-4.

You will be forced to say that while it says a certain thing, it actually means something different.

It's always the way.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Ad hominem . . . the refuge of those lacking a real answer.



This is solely your presumption.

If I were to be equally presumptive, I could suggest that you may want to study all sides of the matter, so you can make a reasoned decision of what you think the Bible means. And then we wouldn't think that you don't know any other way, because it escapes your understanding, so as to conclude that there is no other way to understand these things.

Do you see how this works?

Pure presumption!

Correct interpretations will harmonize with all relevant passages, and though you choose to not respond when I bring up those passages, yet they still do exist, and your interpretations don't reconcile. For instance, Colossians 3:1-4.

You will be forced to say that while it says a certain thing, it actually means something different.

It's always the way.

Much love!

This guys preached for some time a system of works. Why do you continue?
And this is a serious question. What do you perceive to be the motive?

 

[Waiting on him]

3,467 posts and nothing.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And I did not say what you said I said about John the baptist.

You said faith that is from God is strong, inherently strong and with power, and without a shadow of doubting.

Tong2020 said: ↑
What one needs is to have a faith that is from God, which is inherently strong and with power, and without a shadow of doubting.

Then I showed you John the Baptist's doubt, which shows the fallacy of your statement. Then you tried to bend the account of John's doubt to guard your argument. You do this a lot.

Thank you for quoting what I actually said. And it only proves that I haven’t said what you say I said. For I didn’t even mentioned John the baptist. So next time, do not do that and instead use the quote feature as you did here.

<<<Then you tried to bend the account of John's doubt to guard your argument.>>>

There is no bending of the account of John’s sending men to ask of Jesus if He is the Messiah. What I did is show you that your view of that account concerning John is not what you think it is. Sadly, you just dismissed it as “bending” without really giving a proper refutation of what I said about the account.

So it is clear you don’t believe that the faith that comes from God is one that is with power and without a shadow of doubting. That gives me the impression that you believe that what faith you have is one that is otherwise, which would be one that is somehow that allows for doubt or a faith that could be still faith even when there is doubt. Well,...

As for me, faith isn’t faith at all when there is doubt. For the two could not be mixed and are contrary to each other.

Tong
R2869

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
it teaches me that those chosen by God are saved and that God will keep them and Jesus will bring them home to the Father. And nothing could change that nor prevent that from being accomplished by Jesus Christ.

All excellent reasons to keep believing. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing in so great a Priest and Ministry.

Right now your mind is incapable of seeing how all these things can be true and one not believe in osas. You don't know how there can be a way for those to be true and osas not be true. And it isn't because there is no way to see it any other way. It's because you don't know that other way. It escapes your understanding. And so you conclude that any other way of understanding it doesn't exist.

Apparently you don’t believe that scriptures teach those chosen by God are saved and that God will keep them and Jesus will bring them home to the Father, and that nothing could change that nor prevent that from being accomplished by Jesus Christ, and it seems you believe otherwise.

That is the case when one thinks that the keeping and maintaining of what salvation he have, rest on his will and is under his control. Unless he surrender fully his will and life to God, he will continue to be in that situation, holding on and relying to himself, regarding that matter. He ought to have full confidence and trust in God concerning that. He should pray about that.

Tong
R2870

 

[Tong2020]

I'm not 'lol'ing your argument. What I'm saying is you are free to believe whatever you want about it. I'm not going to take that away from you. What's important is that you remain a believer all the way to the very end. That's what the Bible exhorts us to do and that is the important thing that matters that we can all agree on. Don't divide the brethren over a meaningless osas argument.

You could have written this instead of saying “Okay, whatever, lol.”

And there is really no need to tell me that I am free to believe whatever I want. For that goes to all, even to you. Needless to say, such response is no refutation to what I said and I quote:

“So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.”

And as I said, Today if you hear His voice, make that choice, and you’ll have peace not only in your mind, but in your heart. Rest upon the Lord and believe that He will keep you, not only on the day that you believed, but to the end. As I pointed out, it’s a matter of faith.

<<<Don't divide the brethren over a meaningless osas argument.>>>

If you think I am, then you are mistaken about me. For I would be very happy to see all of us in agreement. However, it does not mean that we just have to do nothing and not argue against anything we see and hear that goes against the teachings of scriptures. Should we let it be when you hear a teaching that perverts the truth, in your reading of scriptures? Just like when one teaches that salvation is by works, would you say let’s not argue about that because it divides us and say, what is important is we believe we are saved? That it does not really matter if you are saved by works or by grace through faith?

Tong
R2871

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You cited Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21. Why? What is it you want to say by that?

The reasons why people stop believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Needless to say, such response is no refutation to what I said and I quote:

“So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.”

The Galatians really did make that choice, and yet they rejected the gospel for another gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And there is really no need to tell me that I am free to believe whatever I want. For that goes to all, even to you.

Yep. In non essential, curious things that's how it is, and that's how we should leave it. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want. Because it doesn't matter. Osas is a big fat nothing burger. What matters is that we heed the Bible's exhortation and keep believing to the very end.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Rest upon the Lord and believe that He will keep you, not only on the day that you believed, but to the end. As I pointed out, it’s a matter of faith.

That's what I've been saying.........keep believing. That's what counts.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Should we let it be when you hear a teaching that perverts the truth, in your reading of scriptures?

Only if it's in regard to something that actually matters.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That’s because you presume that John knows the name of the one he baptized wherein he saw the Holy Spirit coming down upon him whom he baptized. What John knew is that He is the Messiah when he baptized Him, but he did not know him as the one called by the name of Jesus.

Read Luke 1. Jesus and John the Baptist are related to each other.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That passage does not even speak about one giving up forgiveness of sins. Read again. It’s about the question of Peter. It is about giving mercy to a brother who sinned against you just as you were given mercy by God for the sins you committed against Him.

That is not pertaining to the salvation of a Christian. For concerning the Christian’s debt, there was payment made for the forgiveness of his sins. I know you know what that payment is and who paid for it. So, that passage clearly is not about salvation.

So, I told you that the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins is nowhere found in scriptures.

Okay, whatever, lol.
Now I am 'lol'ing at your doctrine. It's so plainly says the man was forgiven and then not forgiven that I can only laugh at your contention that the idea of giving up the forgiveness of your sins (the context of the passage) is no where found in the scriptures.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
You cited Luke 8:13 and Matthew 13:21. Why? What is it you want to say by that?

The reasons why people stop believing.

So, are you saying that you could be that?

Tong
R2872

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Needless to say, such response is no refutation to what I said and I quote:

“So, if you still have the choice of rejecting Jesus Christ or not, then you have not truly and really have made your choice in that day that you said you did.”

The Galatians really did make that choice, and yet they rejected the gospel for another gospel.

That does not refute what I said. Besides you only presume that they truly believed when they first believed.

Tong
R2873