Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

I've been a believer now for over 22 years and to stop believing would be unfathomable to me.

35 years for me. And along the way I have learned why some believers cut and run. We must go through many trials to enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Read the passage again. It’s about Peter’s question, which goes ““Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

....and how the once forgiven person had his forgiveness revoked. Read it! You said that was no where to be found in scripture.

This is what I said:

“ There is no such thing as giving up forgiveness of sins. When one was forgiven of his sins by God, he is forgiven of his sins. That’s a done deed. There is nothing to give up there. More so, nothing conditioned on one’s continuance of faith or whatever.”

As I said the passage is not about that but about Peter’s question.

Now it seems that you really want to have the passage say what it does not say. Well,....I’ll let you be with that then.

Tong
R2879

 

[CadyandZoe]

HAHAHA @CadyandZoe ... By this... I can tell you are MARRIED!!!

43 years last March, I think. Don't tell Zoe I forgot the year. I think it was '77. (smile)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is what I said:

“ There is no such thing as giving up forgiveness of sins. When one was forgiven of his sins by God, he is forgiven of his sins. That’s a done deed. There is nothing to give up there.

27His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.
32...‘You wicked servant! I forgave all your debt because you begged me.
34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed. Matthew 18:27-34​

You said no where in the Bible is there the giving up the forgiveness of sins. Well, we're staring right at it in the above passage. And not only is this in the Bible, contrary to your claim it is not, Jesus is saying this is how it is in the kingdom of God! ↓↓↓

the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. Matthew 18:23

That is how My heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” Matthew 18:35
​

So, no more talk about a person losing the forgiveness of sin not being in the Bible. It's there, and that's how it is in the kingdom of God.

 

[marks]

This guys preached for some time a system of works. Why do you continue?
And this is a serious question. What do you perceive to be the motive?

This requires some thought . . .

 

[Waiting on him]

This requires some thought . . .

If I may suggest, I believe your motive is to declare the glory of God. I believe I also understand his motive, and these will never be in agreement.

 

[marks]

So, no more talk about a person losing the forgiveness of sin not being in the Bible. It's there, and that's how it is in the kingdom of God.

You continue to mix the old and new covenants.

Yes . . . righteousness could be lost under the Law. However, we are not under the Law. So our righteousness is not the righteousness of the Law, it is the righteousness by faith, the righteousness of God by faith.

Talk about it, don't talk about it . . . or talk about Colossians 3:1-4. You seem to be avoiding that.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Mark 2:21 KJV
[21] No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.
No agreement.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes . . . righteousness could be lost under the Law.

Don't tell me. Tong is the one who said it was no where in the scriptures. Think what you want about it, but Tong is the one who claimed it was no where in the scriptures.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

or talk about Colossians 3:1-4. You seem to be avoiding that.

What's to avoid? Is there something there that says we don't have to keep believing, and that's why you think I'm avoiding it?

 

[marks]

If I may suggest, I believe your motive is to declare the glory of God. I believe I also understand his motive, and these will never be in agreement.

I have a number of motives.

To present Scritpure which may yet lead to @Ferris Bueller , not that this is who this is, I'm pretty sure! which may yet lead this person to a greater knowledge of God.

To show the fallacies in these arguments for others who may be reading.

To practice my abilities to accurately understand other people's views, and to clearly and accurately articulate mine.

To do the thing I love to do, speaking of God, with the people of God.

And yes, to declare the beauty and wonder of His salvation!

And regardless of anything I just said . . . my true motives will be revealed by Jesus. May I be sincere in everything!

Other people's motives, I can't say.

But I can look at the fruit of someone who teaches that God's salvation is somehow incomplete, that you have to finish it off yourself. That was under the Law, and it seems that some people just can't get away from that thinking. I know, it's hard to do sometimes! It seems so ingrained, we have to be responsible, we have to be accountable, and we are, but not for our eternal life. That's what being saved is. God has rescued us, and rescued we are!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

3,467 posts and nothing.

Just keep believing to the very end. That's all you need to know. And we don't need 10,000 pages to know that because the Bible plainly says to do that. Focus on what counts and let's leave the silly, divisive doctrinal contentions to our own personal 'curious but unimportant' studies.

 

[marks]

Don't tell me. Tong is the one who said it was no where in the scriptures. Think what you want about it, but Tong is the one who claimed it was no where in the scriptures.

No, I'm telling you. It's apples and oranges, and you should know that.

 

[Grailhunter]

I have a number of motives.

To present Scritpure which may yet lead to @Ferris Bueller , not that this is who this is, I'm pretty sure! which may yet lead this person to a greater knowledge of God.

To show the fallacies in these arguments for others who may be reading.

To practice my abilities to accurately understand other people's views, and to clearly and accurately articulate mine.

To do the thing I love to do, speaking of God, with the people of God.

And yes, to declare the beauty and wonder of His salvation!

And regardless of anything I just said . . . my true motives will be revealed by Jesus. May I be sincere in everything!

Other people's motives, I can't say.

But I can look at the fruit of someone who teaches that God's salvation is somehow incomplete, that you have to finish it off yourself. That was under the Law, and it seems that some people just can't get away from that thinking. I know, it's hard to do sometimes! It seems so ingrained, we have to be responsible, we have to be accountable, and we are, but not for our eternal life. That's what being saved is. God has rescued us, and rescued we are!

Much love!

Got to read the whole Bible! Not just the parts that tickle your ear.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To present Scritpure which may yet lead to @Ferris Bueller , not that this is who this is, I'm pretty sure! which may yet lead this person to a greater knowledge of God.

Osas is not a greater knowledge of God. The church likes to think the correctness of their grandiose doctrinal constructs is what it means to know God in a great way but that simply is not true. The Bible tells us what it looks like to know God, and know him well. And it has nothing to do with the correctness of your doctrinal beliefs, lol.

 

[marks]

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[marks]

Osas is not a greater knowledge of God. The church likes to think the correctness of their grandiose doctrinal constructs is what it means to know God in a great way but that simply is not true. The Bible tells us what it looks like to know God, and know him well.

You keep talking OSAS. You do. You.

I'm talking Scriptures.

Like this one.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, I'm telling you. It's apples and oranges, and you should know that.

Pay attention! You agree that the passage is talking about being forgiven and then not being forgiven. I don't care what your thinking is about it. The point is Tong made a bold contention that this did not exist in scripture. Now tell him it does! Don't share your personal opinion about it's application. Because it's not about that. This about Tong saying the concept did not exist in scripture, period.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You keep talking OSAS. You do. You.

I'm talking Scriptures.

Like this one.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Good grief! This doesn't prove anything about Osas, lol! Everybody knows that if you are risen with Christ (and not backslidden into unbelief) that you will appear with him in glory!

 

[marks]

The church likes to think the correctness of their grandiose doctrinal constructs is what it means to know God in a great way but that simply is not true.

This strikes me as a particularly empty statement. The church doesn't like to think anything. The church is a group of individuals, and individuals think many different things.

If you are used to being around people who have lofty opinion of themself for having some sort of systematic theology or whatever you mean by "constructs", maybe you need to get around another group of believers.

Doctrines of God and knowing God while highly interdependant are not the same thing. But having the wrong ideas of God, that doesn't help anyone!

Actually, it's not really a meaningless statement.

I think this is called 'casting aspersions'.

"You disagree with me, so obviously your 'doctrinal constructs', being 'grandiose', have fooled you into thinking you know God." Of course, you put it in that third person passive-aggressive way.

SOME people are . . . OH, no, I didn't say YOU are . . . oh no . . .

Just some things to think about . . . should you care to.