Proof that Jesus is God

[Cooper]

Yes because the man is God thesis is not in Scripture. The reliance on duality is clear when one considers Jesus said he was sent. Who has authority to send God on a mission?

The answer is laughable as it distorts language, such as a bring sends themselves on a mission.

Then I shall wipe the dust from off my feet and put you back on ignore.
.

 

[robert derrick]

Then I shall wipe the dust from off my feet and put you back on ignore.
.

That is wise. We cannot seriously engage unbelievers in matters of Scripture and God. Someone who cannot worship Jesus has no business being in a discussion with those who do. After the first or second admonition of Scripture, they must be rejected and ignored as the heretics they are (Titus 3). As Paul said:

"That because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage." (Gal 2)

They creep in unawares by stealth to lead us away to Jehovaite la la land like silly women (2 Tim 3) (Jude 1).

Ad I am neither silly nor a woman. Not that there is anything wrong with being a woman...

(Unless you are a man saying you are a woman. But that's another topic, though equally silly...)

 

[robert derrick]

Somebody asked this question: Do you suppose every time someone in the Bible said "I am" it means they are God? By way of rejecting Jesus as the Lord God 'I Am'. (Anyone else notice the only times these people speak of Jesus is to downgrade Him and tell us what He is not?)

Jesus was not trying to confirm Himself being God, every time He said 'I am'; however, when He first declared Himself to be the Lord God, the I AM, in John 8 the unbelieving Jews and Jehovah idolizers picked up stones to stone Him. And when He did so again in direct response to their demand He make Himself known as Christ and Son of the Blessed in Mark 14, the same unbelieving Jews had Him crucified.

Jesus was declaring Himself to be the Lord God I Am both times, which is why the idolatrous Jews desired to kill Him.

And when the profane high priest rent his clothes in response to Jesus declaring Himself The I Am, he was foreshadowing the same response of Jehovah idolizers today, whenever they hear anyone say Jesus is the Lord God and the I Am. These Jehovah idolizers, Jehovaites, that reject Jesus as the true God today, would full well do the same deeds as their unbelieving unitarian Jewish fathers, who killed the prophets and the Son, for today they build their dead sepulchers of idolatry (Luke 11).

"...we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen." (I John 5)

 

[NayborBear]

Hebrews 1 only makes sense if Jesus is God's only begotten son. Hebrews 1 (WEB):

1) God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

Were the prophets God? No.​

2) has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds.

Was his son God? Likewise no. God made the universe through His son - he had Jesus perform the creation according to His design, but it was still God's creation. However, after God resurrected Jesus to life again, God has blessed Jesus with an immortal nature and He has given His creation to Jesus as an inheritance, from father to son.​

3) His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Jesus now has the same divine nature as God (previously he was not immortal, which is why he was able to die for mankind). He is now sat down at God's right hand (he is not God, the Majesty on high, but he is God's 'right-hand man').​

4) having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.

Jesus has now become so much better than the angels (he was better before, for he created them, but he is now much better, having become immortal, and given by God all authority and power over God's creation). Regarding Jesus' more excellent name, Philippians 2:9-11 says "Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

5) For to which of the angels did he say at any time, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father?” and again, “I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?”

Only Jesus is God's only-begotten son. Jesus was begotten as God's firstborn son of his new creation (of which we are also begotten at our baptism) at his baptism, when as recorded in Matthew 3:17, Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”​

6) When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.”

Jesus was the firstborn of all God's creation (Colossians 1:15). It is now right, according to God, for all angels and all men to worship Jesus, as well as worshiping God.​

7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”
8) But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your Kingdom.
9) You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.”

God refers to Jesus as a god - 'god' means a mighty one. Jesus is truly a mighty one, but God is still his god. God has annointed Jesus with more gladness (exultation, exceeding triumphant joy) than anyone else.​

10) And, “You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands.

God confirms again that He had Jesus create the universe.​

11) They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does.

The universe will decay over time, but Jesus won't.​

12) You will roll them up like a mantle, and they will be changed; but you are the same. Your years will not fail.”

For Jesus is now immortal, like God is.​

13) But which of the angels has he told at any time, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”

Only Jesus sits at God's right hand, while God overcomes Jesus' enemies (alhough He may use Jesus to overcome them).​

14) Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?

1 John 4:9 (WEB):
9) By this God’s love was revealed in us, that God has sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
10) In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
11) Beloved, if God loved us in this way, we also ought to love one another.
12) No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God remains in us, and his love has been perfected in us.
13) By this we know that we remain in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
14) We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.
15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.

One can surely tell by the nemesis's constant mocking in such the condescending pseudo-intimadating manner that he does?
That he already sees himself as risen above the stars of heaven!
Sad part of it is? He's not the only one who is like this!

I had thought I wrote a pretty goodly explanation with evidences contrary to his "Jesus IS the Godhead" writings.

You have given us an even better report!

Kudos sir!

 

[robert derrick]

Somebody referred to 'The man is God thesis'... What in the world is that? Whoever said that, I would like to know what they are talking about?

Now, the man Christ Jesus is God, of course, but whoever said that man is God, or even that man will be God?

Such a statement is a clear form of idolatry. To even think that the one man Christ Jesus being God must mean that man is God, is showing a heart full of idolatry about man being God. I would never even have thought of such an idolatrous and idiotic thing, and this is the first time I've even heard of such silliness.

These are not serious people, folks. They are idolaters idolizing a title for Lord 'Jehovah', and reject the Lord's true name Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the Blessed, the true God.

"For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matthew 12)

 

[NayborBear]

Nah. Forget it. Just kidding. Worshipping the Lord Jesus is best. You guys go on doing whatever it is you do with the title "Jehovah' in the secrecy of your own closets, or the privacy of your toilets. Ok, ok. A little too far there. The privacy of your 'bathrooms'.

Well you are correct here! And you have gotten onto the correct "footing" so to speak!

Because NO ONE "Comes unto the Father, but BY Me." (quoting Jesus here)

Isaiah (quoting Adonai Jehovah) 66:
Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God(NOT Jesus) shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[robert derrick]

God had Jesus perform the creation according to His design, but it was still God's creation...

So, let's consider this: God had His son Jesus 'perform' the creation, but it was still God's creation...

"Hey, look son, let me make one thing perfectly clear, all things may have been created by you, but you, my boy, are no Creator. I'm the Creator, not you! It's still my creation, not yours! That's little 's', got it??" (Sounds like the alternate Cpt Kirk: I'm the Captain! I'm the Captain of the ship!!)

Let's go on.

after God resurrected Jesus to life again, God blessed Jesus with an immortal nature...

So, Jesus didn't actually create anything. He only 'performed the creation' at his Father's behest. Therefore, he was NOT the actual Creator, because he never actually created anything himself, and was merely a mortal man, who at that time had not an immortal nature.

Ok. Well then, I guess I could see why the true Creator had to rebuke this created toad of a boy for the idolatrous thought that he would dare think himself as Creator. And Paul likewise was falling into the same trap in declaring that by Him, the Son, all things were created. Which would cause someone to naturally and idolatrously conclude that Jesus was the actual Creator...

Ok, that makes sense. And so the unitarian Jehovah-idolizing Jews of that day were just following in the Creator's footsteps, when they likewise rebuked the upstart mortal Jesus as an idolatrous blasphemer, for daring to refer to himself as the Creator I AM. And not only that, they obeyed the Creator by having his errant mortal son crucified. I mean, enough is enough, right? And the Jehovaites of today would likewise do...

Sick, but true.

 

[amadeus]

Ok, fair enough. No one is perfect on earth, and no one is perfect in understanding doctrine of Christ by Scripture, and only by the mind of the Spirit may we know the truth thereof and be made truly free.

At a given moment a person be perfect before God, but how long does he stay there? Consider this perhaps not uncommon scenario:

There I am in a really good church service praising God and loving Him with all that is in me along with some good brothers and sisters in Christ. Then the service is over and I refocus of someplace else I need to be and am going do not directly related to God. I get into my car and driving along thinking on these other things, someone in a hurry cut sharply in front of me causing to slam on my brakes to avoid an accident. My mouth opens in that moment and say some unkind ungodly things about that other driver.

What happened to the Spirit of God? Quenched? Hmmm?

So, how about this. If we are indeed being led by the Spirit, then we will indeed be understanding God's Word even as He wrote it. So that if His Scriptures conflict with what we decree or say or teach, then we are being carnally minded and in error.

Can teaching the Way of God be harder than living it? In teaching we may often be using hypothetical situations, whereas in living it, there is nothing hypothetical about it. Jesus was good in both areas. He lived without sinning and he taught people the truth, but not every person understood all that he taught.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?" Matt 15:16

They turned back to Jesus for further clarification and explanation. Who are we to turn to...?

Which further means, we are well able to demonstrate by Scripture such carnal error occurring. I.e. we can do what Paul commanded and rebuke them sharply by Scripture that they may be sound in the faith, even as others may do so with ourselves when we err (Titus 1).

If we ourselves are missing God's point or we are deluded in our understanding then would rebuking the other guy be in order? Sometimes it really is a good thing to remain silent, is it not? Jesus was silent at times when he certainly knew the answer to someone's question. Do any of us always have God's answer to any question any person may put to us? Do we always know when to remain silent even though we are certain we know the answer?

Deluded people believe they are correct. How does a person avoid delusion in the things of God?

I.e. there are people and sects and groups called Christian who are just plain wrong according to the Scriptures.

I do agree, but unless you are absolutely certain that there is no error in your own understanding of the scriptures, should you quickly jump in with both feet to condemn or rebuke them? Are you flawless in the things of God? Is the group or church you meet with always completely and absolutely right in the eyes of God?

Why does Apostle Paul cite the OT here with regard to liars?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

If we are wrong... but believing we are right we go ahead and teach it as we believe it, is it not still a lie, even though an unintentional one?

'God alone is able to understand it and apply it always correctly...'

"having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first." (Luke 1)

Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?

If God were to give me the truth of a matter but I was only able to express it in German and you knew no German you would need some help to understand what God was saying, would you not?

'Not from careful study does God's truth come to a man but by the Holy Ghost!'

"Study to shew thyself approved to God" (2 Tim 2)

I see putting myself into study of the scriptures as the way to obtain God's approval. However, it may not always result in obtaining the truth of a matter. The truth, I believe, comes as per that other verse I previously cited: John 14:26.

A person really studying the Bible hard may find himself here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

God gave Solomon many answers with regard to our flesh and/or our carnal ways including that verse. When a person studies with all of his carnal might without being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, he may fill his head with a lot a stuff including "a weariness of the flesh"... but no truth...

I'm thinking maybe we need to be just a little bit less on the spiritual side of understanding, and a little more relying on the study side of faith. That way, we know what the Bible plainly says, and we know when someone is plainly wrong. And we don't have to bend over backwards to accommodate everyone's let pet theories about God and His Word, even if it does sound and look pleasing to others. (Gal 1:10)/quote]
Ha! So if we are too spiritually minded we are no earthly good? That is a saying of men which men use without understanding that God is the One who should always be leading. If God is not leading then look to what Jeremiah wrote here:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem. 10:23

Are the Bible students with the brains of an Einstein always necessarily the ones closest to God? God gave us everything that we have. Final judgement for or against us is according to what we have done with what he has given us not according to how well we are able to do on a theology test. We do not get closer to God because we are a straight A student in the Bible while the very slow below average student ends up always in some kind of hell! That comes back to what Jesus said here:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Very simply he said, "much is given... much is required"!

Someone with more brains, or money, or opportunity, or education, or whatever as per what God has provided will be required by God to accomplish more, as men see more, just to break even with a person not given so much.

I for one dearly love when someone corrects me soundly by Scriptural proofs with the proper sense thereof (Nehem 8). I just don't suffer childish fools that could really care less about what the Bible actually says as written, and more about what they proudly think they can convince others the Bible says though not written nor written that way.

You know, like the Jehovaites.

I am a great believer in reading the Bible but years ago I learned by personal experience that God wants more from us than that... The Holy Spirit was there all of the time, but quenching the Spirit way too often instead of immersing myself in and following the Spirit was what caused me my trouble. I was in from 1976 until the early 1990's. Then I was out until 2002.

When brought back or allowed to come back I was reading my Bible again daily... but I was also learning to surrender to God daily talking regularly with Him and listening to Him. I may not be quite to 'praying with ceasing' yet or 'rejoicing in the Lord aways' but those things are part of my goal... part of the vision. I cannot get even there by myself, but I keep on asking of God. So long as I do not ask amiss, will He not help me?

I have no idea what a 'Jehovaite' is. Is it important to know?

 

[robert derrick]

Question: How did a natural man 'perform the creation'? Simply by his natural word?

I mean, if the son was natural and mortal in his beginning, then so was his word.

And where exactly was he naturally existing before he was born of Mary?

I got it! Jesus was in fact Adam! Jesus actually performed his own creation! Which was not after he performed the creation of heaven and earth, but of necessity before it, in order to perform it in the first place! And being an idolater who thought himself Creator for his good performance, he wanted to be a god!! He figured he deserved at least that. But he died for such blasphemy in the garden.

However, this Jehovaite 'Creator' was eternally merciful and not finished with errant Jesus-Adam yet. So in the fullness of time the J-Creator put His formerly-dead son in Mary's womb and gave him a 2nd chance at it. (Jesus could not perform that himself, because he was dead due to idolatry). But then Jesus, as the second time Adam, blew it again by the exact same blasphemy of referring to himself as the Creator I AM. You see, he just could not wrap his head around the fact that he was only a performer' of creation, and not the Creator himself. (And I confess, I would probably make the same mistake myself)

However, before the Creator (and it is still His creation) was through with the young punk, the unitarian Jehovaites of the day went too far in their zeal for their J-Creator by having him crucified. And so the Creator figured enough was enough; Jesus was never really going to get it right. 2 strikes you're out.

But since Adam-Jesus had performed miracles for people while on earth the second time, the Creator went ahead and resurrected him and blessed him with an immortal nature. Basically, gave in to his obstinate son, and gave him what he always wanted in the first place, to be a god, and finally owner of the creation itself to boot. Sort of like Zeus did for Herakles.

But he is still NOT the Creator, even though it's now officially his creation, sort of. Which is why from time to time the little immortal upstart gets into arguments with the J-Creator, and weird things happen like stars falling, moon red like blood, etc...and other cosmic stuff like that.

I knew Jehovaites were pagan and mystical, but I never really knew how much so. One could literally write another whole creation myth out of it. Which of course is what they have done. It's called the J-Creation Book of Secrets.

 

[robert derrick]

At a given moment a person be perfect before God, but how long does he stay there? Consider this perhaps not uncommon scenario:

There I am in a really good church service praising God and loving Him with all that is in me along with some good brothers and sisters in Christ. Then the service is over and I refocus of someplace else I need to be and am going do not directly related to God. I get into my car and driving along thinking on these other things, someone in a hurry cut sharply in front of me causing to slam on my brakes to avoid an accident. My mouth opens in that moment and say some unkind ungodly things about that other driver.

What happened to the Spirit of God? Quenched? Hmmm?


Can teaching the Way of God be harder than living it? In teaching we may often be using hypothetical situations, whereas in living it, there is nothing hypothetical about it. Jesus was good in both areas. He lived without sinning and he taught people the truth, but not every person understood all that he taught.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?" Matt 15:16

They turned back to Jesus for further clarification and explanation. Who are we to turn to...?


If we ourselves are missing God's point or we are deluded in our understanding then would rebuking the other guy be in order? Sometimes it really is a good thing to remain silent, is it not? Jesus was silent at times when he certainly knew the answer to someone's question. Do any of us always have God's answer to any question any person may put to us? Do we always know when to remain silent even though we are certain we know the answer?

Deluded people believe they are correct. How does a person avoid delusion in the things of God?


I do agree, but unless you are absolutely certain that there is no error in your own understanding of the scriptures, should you quickly jump in with both feet to condemn or rebuke them? Are you flawless in the things of God? Is the group or church you meet with always completely and absolutely right in the eyes of God?

Why does Apostle Paul cite the OT here with regard to liars?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

If we are wrong... but believing we are right we go ahead and teach it as we believe it, is it not still a lie, even though an unintentional one?


Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?

If God were to give me the truth of a matter but I was only able to express it in German and you knew no German you would need some help to understand what God was saying, would you not?


I see putting myself into study of the scriptures as the way to obtain God's approval. However, it may not always result in obtaining the truth of a matter. The truth, I believe, comes as per that other verse I previously cited: John 14:26.

A person really studying the Bible hard may find himself here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

God gave Solomon many answers with regard to our flesh and/or our carnal ways including that verse. When a person studies with all of his carnal might without being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, he may fill his head with a lot a stuff including "a weariness of the flesh"... but no truth...

As I said before, I am not talking about legitimate yet differing interpretations of prophecy.

But there is no misunderstanding about divinity and law of Christ. It's as simple as it is written. And the teaching thereof is not 'hypothetical'. Jesus is the Lord, and no drunkard shall inherit the kingdom of God. Such things are not disputable nor hard to understand. They are simply to believe and obey or not...I.e. we can't be deluded about such things, only unbelieving and disobedient.

Divisions do not come due to differences of opinion about the mystery of God. They come due to differences in the law and rule of Christ. We are not unified in that rule, because men make up their own rules for others to follow, or reject the rule written plainly in Scripture. This causes division between churches and believers. IF we were to ALL follow the same rule as Paul said (Phil 3), then there would be no real division.

You need to stop conflating plain Scriptural declarations of rule and law written in Scripture, with that of mystery of God found in Scripture.

Mystery can be hard to understand as Peter said (2 Peter 3), but rule of law of Christ is easy to be understand by a little child.

"Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?"

You come across to me being more impressed with not understanding, than with seeking to understand all things. I.e, being comfortable with seeing through a glass darkly. Perhaps, even darker the better.

Paul exhorts us ALL to grow up and come to full age in the knowledge of the Scriptures (Heb 5). Luke wrote to pass on that perfect understanding to us, not just to show us how much he knows and can write.

In the end, you don't want to rebuke nor dispute with someone. Don't. You don't have to. And so far as understanding or not, according to your faith, so be it unto you.

Just be careful you're not trying to please man more than serving Christ, by trying to agree with everyone under the banner of, well none of us knows everything...I live and let live as much as anyone and probably more than most, but when someone tells me a plain lie about God's Word. I correct them, and if they refuse plain Scripture to believe the lie, I reject them as serious believers.

 

[robert derrick]

At a given moment a person be perfect before God, but how long does he stay there? Consider this perhaps not uncommon scenario:

There I am in a really good church service praising God and loving Him with all that is in me along with some good brothers and sisters in Christ. Then the service is over and I refocus of someplace else I need to be and am going do not directly related to God. I get into my car and driving along thinking on these other things, someone in a hurry cut sharply in front of me causing to slam on my brakes to avoid an accident. My mouth opens in that moment and say some unkind ungodly things about that other driver.

What happened to the Spirit of God? Quenched? Hmmm?


Can teaching the Way of God be harder than living it? In teaching we may often be using hypothetical situations, whereas in living it, there is nothing hypothetical about it. Jesus was good in both areas. He lived without sinning and he taught people the truth, but not every person understood all that he taught.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?" Matt 15:16

They turned back to Jesus for further clarification and explanation. Who are we to turn to...?


If we ourselves are missing God's point or we are deluded in our understanding then would rebuking the other guy be in order? Sometimes it really is a good thing to remain silent, is it not? Jesus was silent at times when he certainly knew the answer to someone's question. Do any of us always have God's answer to any question any person may put to us? Do we always know when to remain silent even though we are certain we know the answer?

Deluded people believe they are correct. How does a person avoid delusion in the things of God?


I do agree, but unless you are absolutely certain that there is no error in your own understanding of the scriptures, should you quickly jump in with both feet to condemn or rebuke them? Are you flawless in the things of God? Is the group or church you meet with always completely and absolutely right in the eyes of God?

Why does Apostle Paul cite the OT here with regard to liars?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

If we are wrong... but believing we are right we go ahead and teach it as we believe it, is it not still a lie, even though an unintentional one?


Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?

If God were to give me the truth of a matter but I was only able to express it in German and you knew no German you would need some help to understand what God was saying, would you not?


I see putting myself into study of the scriptures as the way to obtain God's approval. However, it may not always result in obtaining the truth of a matter. The truth, I believe, comes as per that other verse I previously cited: John 14:26.

A person really studying the Bible hard may find himself here:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

God gave Solomon many answers with regard to our flesh and/or our carnal ways including that verse. When a person studies with all of his carnal might without being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit, he may fill his head with a lot a stuff including "a weariness of the flesh"... but no truth...

And in all sincerity, so far as cursing people out for cutting us off, we don't need more 'understanding', we need more prayer. Personal prayer in the Spirit, and not just worship time at 'church'.

For by His Holy Spirit, He sheds His love abroad in our hearts. Which includes the love of His law, that tells us to not let blessing and cursing proceed from our lips. (James 3)

You see? Nothing hard to understand here. No delusional thinking. No need for division. Either we obey or not. And the key to all such things is prayer, so that it is His Spirit that we follow, not our own carnality.

 

[amadeus]

As I said before, I am not talking about legitimate yet differing interpretations of prophecy.

But there is no misunderstanding about divinity and law of Christ. It's as simple as it is written. And the teaching thereof is not 'hypothetical'. Jesus is the Lord, and no drunkard shall inherit the kingdom of God. Such things are not disputable nor hard to understand. They are simply to believe and obey or not...I.e. we can't be deluded about such things, only unbelieving and disobedient.

Divisions do not come due to differences of opinion about the mystery of God. They come due to differences in the law and rule of Christ. We are not unified in that rule, because men make up their own rules for others to follow, or reject the rule written plainly in Scripture. This causes division between churches and believers. IF we were to ALL follow the same rule as Paul said (Phil 3), then there would be no real division.

You need to stop conflating plain Scriptural declarations of rule and law written in Scripture, with that of mystery of God found in Scripture.

Mystery can be hard to understand as Peter said (2 Peter 3), but rule of law of Christ is easy to be understand by a little child.

"Because a writer of some verses of scripture has perfect understanding of it, does not mean that every reader has the same unflawed understanding, does it?"

You come across to me being more impressed with not understanding, than with seeking to understand all things. I.e, being comfortable with seeing through a glass darkly. Perhaps, even darker the better.

Paul exhorts us ALL to grow up and come to full age in the knowledge of the Scriptures (Heb 5). Luke wrote to pass on that perfect understanding to us, not just to show us how much he knows and can write.

In the end, you don't want to rebuke nor dispute with someone. Don't. You don't have to. And so far as understanding or not, according to your faith, so be it unto you.

Just be careful you're not trying to please man more than serving Christ, by trying to agree with everyone under the banner of, well none of us knows everything...I live and let live as much as anyone and probably more than most, but when someone tells me a plain lie about God's Word. I correct them, and if they refuse plain Scripture to believe the lie, I reject them as serious believers.

I see that we have nothing else to discuss as you have already decided. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him!

 

[amadeus]

And in all sincerity, so far as cursing people out for cutting us off, we don't need more 'understanding', we need more prayer. Personal prayer in the Spirit, and not just worship time at 'church'.

For by His Holy Spirit, He sheds His love abroad in our hearts. Which includes the love of His law, that tells us to not let blessing and cursing proceed from our lips. (James 3)

You see? Nothing hard to understand here. No delusional thinking. No need for division. Either we obey or not. And the key to all such things is prayer, so that it is His Spirit that we follow, not our own carnality.

Carry on then as you see it. Give God the glory! Only He gives any real increase to anyone!

 

[robert derrick]

I see that we have nothing else to discuss as you have already decided. May God richly bless you as you walk with Him!

Ok. I'm not sure what I have 'decided' that you have 'not decided', but that's fine by me, so I'll remain decided about my faith in Christ Jesus, and God bless you too in being not decided about your faith in Christ Jesus.

And by the way. I am as old as you most likely, so I am not some young whipper-snapper...

 

[amadeus]

Ok. I'm not sure what I have 'decided' that you have 'not decided', but that's fine by me, so I'll remain decided about my faith in Christ Jesus, and God bless you too in being not decided about your faith in Christ Jesus.

Oh I have decided, but you keep on trying to put words in my mouth that did not come from me.

 

[Gary Urban]

Yes because the man is God thesis is not in Scripture. The reliance on duality is clear when one considers Jesus said he was sent. Who has authority to send God on a mission?

The answer is laughable as it distorts language, such as a bring sends themselves on a mission.

The Father is not signified as being sent .

God signified by the father sent the Son of man, Jesus .Jesus did not become God. God is not a man and niether is there a fleshly infalible interpreting master set betwen Man seen and God not seen

God sent man. It is the work of two that creates the govenrmnet of peace .Loving authority the power of the father plus willing submisiveness = the peace of God that surpases all humn understanding .No Son no Father, no Father no Son. Can't have one without the other.

Salavation is of both

 

[robert derrick]

Oh I have decided, but you keep on trying to put words in my mouth that did not come from me.

Ok, I sincerely wish to see how I did that, because that is not my intention at all. So if you would show me, then I perhaps can avoid it in future.

 

[robert derrick]

The Father is not signified as being sent .

God signified by the father sent the Son of man, Jesus .Jesus did not become God. God is not a man and niether is there a fleshly infalible interpreting master set betwen Man seen and God not seen

God sent man. It is the work of two that creates the govenrmnet of peace .Loving authority the power of the father plus willing submisiveness = the peace of God that surpases all humn understanding .No Son no Father, no Father no Son. Can't have one without the other.

Salavation is of both

You make a very good point, observing that it takes 2 to create a gvt of peace, otherwise there is only a gvt of one.

And so from this, we get a several things.

1. That the Son is not the Father, because Jesus claimed each of them was a witness for Himself (John 18), which makes at least 2 different Persons in the Godhead.

2. The reason the Son came in the flesh was not just to pay the price for sin, but to answer the charge of Satan against mankind, that was correct: The charge of transgression and sin, and therefore man has no place in heaven, because Lucifer found no more place in heaven after sinning.

Therefore, the Son came to 1st prove a man, born of a woman, could live for God, according to his Law perfectly. Thus disproving Satan, who was the perpetual accuser of mankind, and praying the price for sin for forgiveness, and leading the way to heaven by His witness on earth: our Forerunner

3. It also takes two to make a marriage, and so it is with God. Without One of them in the Godhead, no more God.

As I John 2 says: whoever denies the Son also denies the Father, but whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

You don't have one without the other. We must acknowledge them both. An antichrist denies the Son, while trying to claim the Father. How deny the Son? By denying that He is the Christ come in the flesh (I John 2, 4), the prophesied Messiah and Son of the Blessed, The Lord God.

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." (John 5)

The hereditary unitarian Jews of Jesus' day knew that to be the Son and Christ of God was to be equal with God. That is why they had Him crucified, when He plainly said, I AM. (It's pretty pitiful when you know less about the Christ and His equality with God, than those Unitarian Jews who had Jesus crucified. Especially when they are your great claim to doctrinal fame. Hello Jehovaites)

 

[Gary Urban]

You make a very good point, observing that it takes 2 to create a gvt of peace, otherwise there is only a gvt of one.

And so from this, we get a several things.

1. That the Son is not the Father, because Jesus claimed each of them was a witness for Himself (John 18), which makes at least 2 different Persons in the Godhead.

2. The reason the Son came in the flesh was not just to pay the price for sin, but to answer the charge of Satan against mankind, that was correct: The charge of transgression and sin, and therefore man has no place in heaven, because Lucifer found no more place in heaven after sinning.

Therefore, the Son came to 1st prove a man, born of a woman, could live for God, according to his Law perfectly. Thus disproving Satan, who was the perpetual accuser of mankind, and praying the price for sin for forgiveness, and leading the way to heaven by His witness on earth: our Forerunner

3. It also takes two to make a marriage, and so it is with God. Without One of them in the Godhead, no more God.

As I John 2 says: whoever denies the Son also denies the Father, but whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

You don't have one without the other. We must acknowledge them both. An antichrist denies the Son, while trying to claim the Father. How deny the Son? By denying that He is the Christ come in the flesh (I John 2, 4), the prophesied Messiah and Son of the Blessed, The Lord God.

"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." (John 5)

The hereditary unitarian Jews of Jesus' day knew that to be the Son and Christ of God was to be equal with God. That is why they had Him crucified, when He plainly said, I AM. (It's pretty pitiful when you know less about the Christ and His equality with God, than those Unitarian Jews who had Jesus crucified. Especially when they are your great claim to doctrinal fame. Hello Jehovaites)

Thanks well said

I would offer. They accused him of blasphemy for saying he stood on an equal bases. . two working as one God. Not knowing the spirit life makes them gods created in his invisible image.. And gives rise to the first commandment have no gods before our one God. A place where the Son of man Jesus refused to stand he obeyed the comandment

John 10:33-35 King James Version (KJV)The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Because they had no faith as it is written they were looking for gods in the likeness of men .Not mixing faith in what they saw .Therefore creating a legion of gods in the likeness of men (true blasphemy ) when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, blasphemy

The power to heal comes from the gospel as it is written not by looking at corrupted flesh.

Acts 14 7 And there they preached the gospel. And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Interestingly the father of lies called Baranbus Jupiter to represent our unseen father ("supreme deity of the ancient Romans," from Latin Iupeter, Iupiter, Iuppiter, "Jove, god of the sky and chief of the gods,") and Paul mercury ( the fleet-footed messenger of the gods.) Turning things upside down as if the Potter had no understanding.

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[Cristo Rei]

no

And this kind of stuff sickens me... People that won't even accept than someone else may be thinking something else

Whatevz... Im not a Christian anyway so i'll leave it up to u guys