Once Saved Always Saved

[GracePeace]

Yes He did, and He made it clear that some believe, but only for awhile, then FALL AWAY.

In Luke 8 Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus makes it clear that in the example of the seed sown on a rock, that it shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away - it’s indisputable.

To this point Hebrews 10:35-39
35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,
“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

So, we see that "God's righteous one" needs "endurance", because if he does not "endure", but "shrinks back", he will not inherit the "promise", but God will destroy him--then we have a confirmation that there is a group of "My Righteous Ones" who do "shrink back", who do not "endure", and who are destroyed, after which the author provides (as in Hebrews 6:9, after having spoken of terrifying things also, "but I am convinced of better things for us, and things which accompany salvation") a word of encouragement "We are not of those 'righteous ones' who fail to 'endure' and 'shrink back' but we will continue in faith and be saved".

 

[Tong2020]

I don't know why anyone would say "the child of God is still with a 'body of death', that is, sinful flesh, where sin still dwells in" when according to Romans 6:6 He brought the body of sin to nothing, and Christ "delivers us from the body of sin and death" Romans 7:25, Romans 8:2... oh yeah Calvinists have the tradition of reading Romans 7:7-24 as if it were a Christian's life (despite the facts : Romans 7:5 "when we were in the flesh" is the lifestyle described therein, but Romans 8:9 "you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit").

The reason is obvious and real. We still are in this fleshly body until God will change it at the resurrection.

And while we are in the Spirit, we still have the body of flesh, corruptible and mortal.

Tong
R3106

 

[Tong2020]

To be a partaker of the Holy Spirit is to receive Him, (he’s not an IT, but a Him), and only Christians get the HS, thus the passage is talking about believers, who deliberately keep doing a particular sin that they know is wrong, and wont repent because they want to keep doing it, thus willfully sin - then the sacrifice of Jesus for their sins no longer is in effect.

Christ died while all else are yet sinners, in their trespasses and sins. And it was effective. The proof being is that God was well pleased in all that He did and the sacrifice of His life because of His love for mankind. Such acceptance by God is demonstrated in the fact of Jesus’ resurrection from the dead and ascension to heaven to sit at the right hand of God.

Such was not conditioned on anything and so too its effectiveness.

Tong
R3107

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes I definitely agree and believe that and all scriptures for that matter.

When I said “It is simply being the child of God that the Christian is.”, I meant to say that “walking in the Spirit” is the nature of the child of God.
I 'd probably asked what makes one a child of God?

I 'd probably asked what makes one a child of God?

It’s not a WHAT but a WHO. God makes one His child.

Tong2020 said: ↑

The point being is that, it is who they are and how they behave. So, they don’t try doing that.

In every child of God, the Spirit of God dwells, who directs his ways and guards his heart. That being, no child of God really is not good. For He who is good is in him. To speak of the child of God to be not good, I consider, blasphemous.

However, the situation is, the child of God is still with a “body of death”, that is, sinful flesh, where sin still dwells in. So, the matter is, the evil sin that is still there ever wars against the good Spirit that dwells in him. That puts the child of God daily to be at war with sin, and that is going on within him, invisible to the human eyes of those who are of the world. They do not know that that is going on in him. But the children of God knows that. And every now and then, the child of God, mostly in his infancy, weak as he still is, is overtaken by sin. When a mature child sees his brother sinning, in love he goes to him to his aid ~ reminding, exhorting, rebuking. So we see the apostles doing just that towards the brethren during their time. And obviously it is not so that they will remain saved, but for a lot of good reasons. It is part of caring and loving one another in the family of God.

Doing what pleases God stays on the path of righteousness...righteousness is still the Standard that pleases God.....

Righteousness of faith. Faith in Him is that which pleases God.

But to be more complete and accurate, the standard is Jesus Christ.

Tong
R3108

 

[Tong2020]

Yes He did, and He made it clear that some believe, but only for awhile, then FALL AWAY.

In Luke 8 Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus makes it clear that in the example of the seed sown on a rock, that it shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away - it’s indisputable.

The parable isn’t about the salvation of one, but about bearing fruit.

Tong
R3109

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<and if they should die with those unforgiven sins, they will end up in hell.>>>

Them ending up in hell, means they were not among those whom God predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.

God predestined that believers will be conformed to the image of His son - He did not predetermine or predestined who will believe.

At least you agree that God predestined the saved to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ. And what God had predestined, will certainly and definitely be accomplished. Would any of the saved then and any of the now saved, lose their salvation so that what God had predestined them to be would not happen to them? The answer is obviously No.

That is an indisputable truth concerning the saved. So, that being said, if in our reading of scriptures, that a certain passage seem to contradict that truth, sure enough, to take the said as to contradict said truth is a misreading of the passage.

Tong
R3110

 

[Tong2020]

To this point Hebrews 10:35-39
35Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37For,
“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

So, we see that "God's righteous one" needs "endurance", because if he does not "endure", but "shrinks back", he will not inherit the "promise", but God will destroy him--then we have a confirmation that there is a group of "My Righteous Ones" who do "shrink back", who do not "endure", and who are destroyed, after which the author provides (as in Hebrews 6:9, after having spoken of terrifying things also, "but I am convinced of better things for us, and things which accompany salvation") a word of encouragement "We are not of those 'righteous ones' who fail to 'endure' and 'shrink back' but we will continue in faith and be saved".

And it is God who makes one endure and stand.

Tong
R3111

 

[Corlove13]

And Christ had already come, even some 2000+ years ago.

Tong
R3103

Therefore you can look at it to get understanding about the New Cov. AS THE WRITERS ARE ALWAYS REFERENCING

 

[Corlove13]

Let’s consider these truths concerning the children of God, who now stand in the grace of God, saved by grace.

1. They have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.
2. They are not their own as they were bought at a price. They are Christ’s. They are God’s.
3. They were predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
4. They shall not be separated from the love of Christ.
5. They were predestined to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to God.
6. They have in Christ obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of God.

If one considers all those, how could one deny the assurance of their salvation, those who now stand in the grace of God, saved by grace? The above truths only shows that those who arrive at a conclusion that their salvation could be lost, are mistaken and errs in their understanding of certain passages.

Tong
R3099

One is either In Christ choosing to walk after the Spirit. Or .....what happens if a righteous person turns from His ways?

Ezekiel 18
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

1 Cor 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Tks for sharing.
From your own experience how were you Marked?

I don't know where to jump back into the discussion, lol.

I was marked the way all believers are marked....

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:13-14​

I was marked as God's possession with the Holy Spirit when I believed. It's the mark that will cause the destroying angel to 'pass over' me when God's wrath is released and He cleans up the mess satan has made of creation. The mark of the Spirit is a mark of ownership. Osas has made the seal to be be some kind of unbreakable wrapper that even God can't break, instead of what it is, an official seal of ownership. Yes, it's true that not just anybody can come along and not make you God's possession anymore. But that hardly means God won't dispossess you if you deny him. I mean, that's what the Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:12. But the important point here is that you get sealed by believing in God. And that you remain sealed by continuing in that belief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When one is born again/from above are they at the same time regenerated renewed and justified?

Yes.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Another words does new life make you automatically forgiven.

I know this is going to ruffle some Calvinist's feathers, lol, but you get new life when you are forgiven. When you receive that forgiveness by faith, believing.

 

[Corlove13]

It’s not a WHAT but a WHO. God makes one His child.


Righteousness of faith. Faith in Him is that which pleases God.

But to be more complete and accurate, the standard is Jesus Christ.

Tong
R3108

CHRIST JESUS IS THE END OF OUR FAITH BECAUSE HE FULFILLED THE LAW.

AND HE IS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.
HOWEVER WE ARE TO BE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST...
THEREFORE FULLFILL THE LAW...

THEREFORE MEETING THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENT[STANDARD] OF THE LAW.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

....for I know one is forgived of past sins......and if they fall short dont the need to be justified b4 God again?

No. John 13:10

Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

 

[Corlove13]

I don't know where to jump back into the discussion, lol.

I was marked the way all believers are marked....

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:13-14​

I was marked as God's possession with the Holy Spirit when I believed. It's the mark that will cause the destroying angel to 'pass over' me when God's wrath is released and He cleans up the mess satan has made of creation. The mark of the Spirit is a mark of ownership. Osas has made the seal to be be some kind of unbreakable wrapper that even God can't break, instead of what it is, an official seal of ownership. Yes, it's true that not just anybody can come along and not make you God's possession anymore. But that hardly means God won't dispossess you if you deny him. I mean, that's what the Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:12. But the important point here is that you get sealed by believing in God. And that you remain sealed by continuing in that belief.

Hi, and welcome back....
I don't know if I agree...


For if God's promise is The seal
Then shall He break His promise.

A house divided can not Stand

The mark is the Holy Spirit....
Even Jesus said it would be in them forever.

 

[Corlove13]

I know this is going to ruffle some Calvinist's feathers, lol, but you get new life when you are forgiven. When you receive that forgiveness by faith, believing.

I think I may agree here...but always room for more understanding

 

[Corlove13]

No. John 13:10

Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

Explain

 

[Corlove13]

Yes.

Here is a passage...dont quote me
The will of the father is that everyone that looks to the son and Believes will have life and be raised on the last Day...

 

[Corlove13]

No. John 13:10

Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

So you believe justification before God can only happen once?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For if God's promise is The seal
Then shall He break His promise.

His promise includes, 'if you forsake Him, He will forsake you'. Osas is just the argument over whether or not a true Christian can forsake Him. A curious question, but one that does not remove the necessity to continue to believe and trust in Him, just as the Bible tells us to do.