Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Yes....while the Promise to Abraham was I'm guessing 400 years before the Law. GOD CHOSE A PEOPLE AND MADE A COVENANT WITH THEM.....
AND WHAT DID THEY FIND?

3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Therefore the law was no longer the source of salvation[rightness] but it is the path or course of righness.

Because Jesus became the source of Salvation..

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Tong
R3123

 

[Corlove13]

Yes....while the Promise to Abraham was I'm guessing 400 years before the Law. GOD CHOSE A PEOPLE AND MADE A COVENANT WITH THEM.....
AND WHAT DID THEY FIND?

3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Therefore the law was no longer the source of salvation[rightness] but it is the path or course of righness. [Nor was it ever intended to be in my view]

Because Jesus became the source of Salvation..

Flesh is said to be[what man can do in their natural ability]

 

[Corlove13]

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Tong
R3123

I edited ...just b4...you wrote that so go back and read it....

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That does not take away the point that what God had predestined will certainly and definitely happen.

Let me ask, do you consider yourself to being in Christ? If yes, do you consider yourself predestined?

Let me ask, would you say you are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ?

For one in Christ who walks "s" after the Spirit

Would you answer my questions?

Tong
R3124

 

[Corlove13]

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Tong
R3123

It was what they thought that mattered

 

[GracePeace]

No. John 13:10

Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean.

I wonder about not needing justification again... because Romans 14:23 does teach you're condemned (opposite of justified) if you sin as a Christian.

 

[GracePeace]

Hi, and welcome back....
I don't know if I agree...


For if God's promise is The seal
Then shall He break His promise.

A house divided can not Stand

The mark is the Holy Spirit....
Even Jesus said it would be in them forever.

He gives the Spirit to be with the Church forever, but members of the Church are not fixed (just as, with the OT, members could be removed from and added to Israel).

 

[GracePeace]

Therefore you can look at it to get understanding about the New Cov. AS THE WRITERS ARE ALWAYS REFERENCING

It's painfully obvious; it takes an alien theological system to obstinately refuse to believe God about it.

Perfect example: 1 Corinthians 10:1-11
The Jews were saved (just like us), and were baptized (just like us), and partook of communion (just like us), nevertheless they fell under God's wrath and never inherited the Promise (as Hebrews 10:36-39 says) because they persisted in sin (just as will happen to us if we persist in sin). These things were written down TO TEACH US WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO US SO THAT WE DON'T DO WHAT THEY DID AND END UP LIKE THEM UNDER GOD'S WRATH AND NOT INHERITING THE PROMISE.

Calvinist response : "No, because they weren't really saved."

Scripturally anemic, ignorant, obstinacy. "I will preserve my theological system--who cares what I do to God's Word!"

 

[Tong2020]

I edited ...just b4...you wrote that so go back and read it....

Same response here.

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Additional response:

What does it mean that the law is not of faith?

Was there a law given which could have given life?

Tong
R3125

 

[GracePeace]

He gives the Spirit to be with the Church forever, but members of the Church are not fixed (just as, with the OT, members could be removed from and added to Israel).

Examples:

"Cut off from his people" : Exodus 30:33, Exodus 30:38, Exodus 31:14
Then people may also join themselves to Israel--eg, Ruth, the great great grandmother of King David, who was a Moabitess.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

It was what they thought that mattered

What I gather from your response is that it was not. So, why did you say “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome” in answer to my question “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”

Please explain.

Tong
R3126

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I wonder about not needing justification again... because Romans 14:23 does teach you're condemned (opposite of justified) if you sin as a Christian.

As long as were talking about a believer here, the believer is already legally justified in the eyes of God (Hebrews 10:14). As long as he is believing, the blood of Christ covers his sin in the legal sense the instant it occurs (Hebrews 7:25). So we're talking about a Christian here, not the Christian who turns back in unbelief. He no longer has the blood of Christ to keep him legally justified before the Father (Hebrews 10:26). So condemnation doesn't always have to mean eternal damnation in the scriptures. As a believing Christian, you can be guilty of committing a sin and be condemned, without it meaning you are condemned to hell. That can only happen to the Christian whose sin is the result of turning away from Christ in a decision to not trust in, or care about the forgiveness of God he has received in Christ, anymore.

 

[Taken]

Yes, everyone who believes will have life and be raised on the last day. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing. If you stop believing (assuming that's possible) you are no longer among the 'everyone who believes' to which the promise applies. That's why we're told to keep believing.

* Belief, "by a mans own WILL-POWER"...
CAN come and go.
* Scriptural Reference Examples: Jesus' own Chosen Disciples...:
* Under their "OWN" WILL-Power... Believed, Doubted, Denied.
* It IS ANY MAN, "STILL" operating;
* Under "their OWN WILL-Power...who is Being TAUGHT "TO KEEP BELIEVING"!!

^^^^ THAT ^^^^ WARNING TO "KEEP BELIEVING"...DOES NOT APPLY TO A MAN WHO is "UNDER GODS POWER"

* ANY MAN, "UNDER GODS POWER", HAS the Spirit of God "IN HIM". GODS Spirit / Power, KEEPS that man IN BELIEF, IN FAITH-FULLNESS.......... FOREVER


God Bless,
Taken

 

[GracePeace]

10 commandments, walking by the Spirit

"If you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh."

Now, Paul says "no covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in God's Kingdom"

So, all of these gross sins (perhaps not including unintentional sins) are acts of idolatry--service to an idol, a demon. "How can you say a Christian can commit idolatry?" Did Israel not do it, though they were God's people, and were they not then punished by God permitting foreign powers to rule over them? Those who are regularly doing these things are not abiding in Christ but departing from Christ and going into darkness to find idols to do these things. They're not abiding.

If we are walking in the Light, however, there is no cause for stumbling in us--stumbling for ourselves or others--because the Spirit mortifies the flesh, and we do not commit idolatry. The "power" and intent of the devil is never anything but to kill steal and destroy men by tempting and causing men to live after the flesh. So if you're walking in faith, he can't touch you "and the evil one touchest him not".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

* It IS ANY MAN, "STILL" operating;
* Under "their OWN WILL-Power...who is Being TAUGHT "TO KEEP BELIEVING"!!

^^^^ THAT ^^^^ WARNING TO "KEEP BELIEVING"...DOES NOT APPLY TO A MAN WHO is "UNDER GODS POWER"

Why would God exhort the fake believer to keep doing his fake believing?

 

[GracePeace]

As long as were talking about a believer here, the believer is already legally justified in the eyes of God (Hebrews 10:14). As long as he is believing, the blood of Christ covers his sin in the legal sense the instant it occurs. So we're talking about a Christian here, not the Christian who turns back in unbelief. He no longer has the blood of Christ to keep him legally justified before the Father. So condemnation doesn't always have to mean eternal damnation in the scriptures. As a believing Christian, you can be guilty of committing a sin and be condemned, without it meaning you are condemned to hell. That can only happen to the Christian whose sin is the result of turning away from Christ in a decision to not trust in, or care about the forgiveness of God he has received in Christ, anymore.

The issue I'm having is with the apparent understanding of the word "justification" you have.

I don't just assume that "justification" means "you went from unsaved to saved".

If you're "condemned" for sinning as a Christian then wouldn't you need "justification" to remedy that as a Christian? "He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness"? Isn't that a "justification"? That's the same thing He did to bring us from "unsaved" to "saved".

 

[marks]

Scripturally anemic, ignorant, obstinacy. "I will preserve my theological system--who cares what I do to God's Word!"

I'm hoping for better things from you than this sort of thing.

Still hoping!

It's painfully obvious; it takes an alien theological system to obstinately refuse to believe God about it.

Projecting motivations of rebellion against God because someone has a different point of view?

?

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, everyone who believes will have life and be raised on the last day. That's why we are exhorted to keep believing. If you stop believing (assuming that's possible) you are no longer among the 'everyone who believes' to which the promise applies. That's why we're told to keep believing.

Among many other passages Hebrews 10:36-39 proves we can stop believing.

 

[Tong2020]

It's painfully obvious; it takes an alien theological system to obstinately refuse to believe God about it.

Perfect example: 1 Corinthians 10:1-11
The Jews were saved (just like us), and were baptized (just like us), and partook of communion (just like us), nevertheless they fell under God's wrath and never inherited the Promise (as Hebrews 10:36-39 says) because they persisted in sin (just as will happen to us if we persist in sin). These things were written down TO TEACH US WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO US SO THAT WE DON'T DO WHAT THEY DID AND END UP LIKE THEM UNDER GOD'S WRATH AND NOT INHERITING THE PROMISE.

Calvinist response : "No, because they weren't really saved."

Scripturally anemic, ignorant, obstinacy. "I will preserve my theological system--who cares what I do to God's Word!"

The issue is not whether the OT teach lessons or not. Rather what shed light to what, the OT to the NT or the NT to the OT. I contend that it is the latter, for the simple reason that Jesus Christ is the light and the OT are but shadows.

Tong
R3127

 

[Corlove13]

It was what they thought that mattered

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Romans 3:19-20)

What I gather from your response is that it was not. So, why did you say “As to the source of salvation, but not the outcome” in answer to my question “Do you believe that the law is not of faith?”

Please explain.

Tong
R3126

Same response here.

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Additional response:

What does it mean that the law is not of faith?

Was there a law given which could have given life?

Tong
R3125

Let me asked the question....was the Law given to the Jews to keep by their flesh?