Once Saved Always Saved

[Corlove13]

It is not about a "FAKE BELIEVER", and I said nothing about a "fake believer".

Observe the Disciples.
Observe ANY beginner FIRST Hearing about God, about Christ Jesus.
They don't hear "A" Sermon and hoot and holler....I believe, I believe.

There is a TIME for BABY's to hear an learn ABOUT EVERYTHING.

There is a TIME for Children, Young adults, Adults, to Hear AND Learn.......ABOUT God,
ABOUT Christ Jesus....they Believe, they Doubt, they Wonder, they Deny, they Believe.....don't you SEE?

Remember the Disciples?
Remember Judas?

Recognize the DIFFERENCE?
All of the Disciples questioned and wondered.
SO WHAT?
11 .... did the ONE THING THAT MATTERED...
......THEY CONTINUED HEARING.....
......THAT IS A MILESTONE.....

THEY BECAME SAVED....BECAUSE, dispite of their unsuredness....THEY CONTINUED Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing, Hearing, Believing......even WHEN THEY were "UNSURE"...!!!

Because they CONTINUED Believing....CONTINUED Following....CONTINUED
THEY BECAME ... CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO ....
MAKE A "HEARTFUL COMMITMENT" OF BELIEF to Jesus Himself.
ANOTHER MILESTONE....

Thereafter.....NEVER AGAIN DID THEY DOUBT.
Thereafter....THEY WERE KEPT IN BELIEF, BY THE POWER OF GOD.

A man who HAS NOT BECOME Converted...
IS WARNED to KEEP their BELIEF .... keep hearing, keep believing, keep hearing....

A man who IS Converted IS Kept IN BELIEF by the POWER OF GOD.

Why does Paul say:
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection?

 

[GracePeace]

It's not a middle school, below the belt attack on his adversaries.

In the context, though--I don't think it should be ignored--this was a repudiation of the false Gospel of circumcision ("If I still preach circumcision"). "If circumcision really is so helpful, cutting the entire thing off would be much better [both are bad]!"

In other words, Paul knows they're going to say "Cut the entire thing off?"--and he's saying that that is exactly how they should think about becoming circumcised as if it determined their standing before God (they should be aghast at circumcision, too).
Yes, Paul has Timothy circumcised, but it isn't for the purpose of saving Timothy, but, as the text is explicit, "because of the Jews in that area"--ie, this was what Paul admitted he did in 1 Corinthians 9:19-20, becoming as a Jew to win Jews, but not "because God told me if I don't I won't be acceptable".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So brother Teacher....

I'm learning from you and being inspired to deeper insights just as much as you (hopefully) are by me.

...can you shed light on the meaning of: if you confess your sins God is faithful and just to forgive you a d cleanse you of all unrighteousness?

I think this is talking about the saved person who sins. 1 John 2:1 in that passage shows us that.

Is their a condition there and does forgiveness happen right away?

I think there is a condition......you have to acknowledge your sin. That's when cleansing occurs. Not legal cleansing. That happened the moment you and I were born again, praise God. Your continuing faith in Christ/God immediately covers your legal guilt, perhaps before you even realized you've sinned. But then there is the matter of God addressing your situational guilt and how it ties God's hands in the matter of you being in close, felt fellowship with Him. You've become 'dirty' that way, and it shuts the Spirit of God down inside of you. Which, eventually, as our dear brother @GracePeace has pointed out, can lead to unbelief. At which point you then lose your legal justification and are lost. I'm of the opinion that's quite a hard road to hoe and you'd have to be pretty stubborn and resistant to get to that point, but scripture does seem to bear out the fact that it can happen. The deeper the word is rooted in a person, the less likely that's going to happen to them. That's what I get out of the Parable of the Sower.

 

[marks]

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Same response here.

Was the law ever was a source of salvation? If so, when? Please cite reference scriptures.

Additional response:

What does it mean that the law is not of faith?

Was there a law given which could have given life?

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Romans 3:19-20)

Let me asked the question....was the Law given to the Jews to keep by their flesh?

I don’t know what your meant by that.

However, my questions aren’t unclear. Would you answer them?

1. Was the law ever was a source of salvation?
2. What does it mean that the law is not of faith?
3. Was there a law given which could have given life?

Tong
R3131

 

[Tong2020]

Yep, and another error the Calvinists make is in assuming that peoples' "soils" (hearts) cannot change from good to bad soil... which is refuted in Hebrews 3:12-13 which teaches if a believer is sinning it can harden their heart and turn it into a wicked heart of unbelief. Clearly, then, the "soils" aren't fixed.

The parable is not about getting oneself saved . It is also not about soils changing into another.

Tong
R3132

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is also not about soils changing into another.

Tong
R3132

You were never the 1st kind of soil? I was for many years. And you've never been the 2nd kind of soil? Been there, done that. I've also got time spent in the 3rd kind of soil.....regrettable years of my life that I wish I could do over.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The parable is not about getting oneself saved .

But it is about receiving the word of God and being saved.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What do you say was the parable about?

It's about fruitfulness. Bringing the Word of God to fruition. That's what Christianity is all about. You get saved and bring the word of God, in whatever measure you have received it, to fruition. That's God's plan and purpose (Titus 2:14). That's the predetermined plan of God. People would do good to get on board by having faith in God and becoming a part of it. That's what the gospel is all about.

That’s right. It is about fruit bearing and fruitfulness.

And that’s right again, you must first be saved before you can even bear fruit. And with that, we understand what the parable is telling us why one who is saved bears no fruit and bears much fruit.

So, it is a misuse of the parable of the sower, when used to support a teaching other than that.

Tong
R3133

 

[Tong2020]

Would you answer my questions?

Tong
R3124

@Corlove13

Please at least let me know if you will answer the following questions I’ve been asking you and I quote;

Let me ask, do you consider yourself to being in Christ? If yes, do you consider yourself predestined?

Let me ask, would you say you are being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ?

Thanks.

Tong
R3134

 

[Behold]

Sounds good : I'll leave it up to the readers to decide which message brought truth from Scripture.

Here,
lets let the readers see you explain this, as you seem to love to try to explain your theology.
Fair enough?

Just explain this..

Explain how the Blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved as your Eternal Security.

 

[Tong2020]

Many thought keeping the law through their flesh was the source.....And it would have been true if they were Jesus.

But they did not have His Spirit yet to uphold what was Spiritual.

So it is no longer the source...because it was said to be weakened by the flesh[thier natural abilities]

So the Law is no longer the source by the flesh [in the sense they thought it was given for]
Because Jesus became the Source [way] of/to rightness.

Rightness is still the standard/the Law
But one was shown that it could not be upheld from man's flesh [natural abilities]

That indeed is why we are given the Spirit.

Pardon, but I just can’t quite understand. There is this “keeping the law through their flesh”, “law as source of salvation” and “law no longer source of the flesh” which I really do not know what you meant by those. Anyway, no need to explain further. I’ll leave it at that.

Instead let us talk about what scriptures calls the righteousness of faith and the law of righteousness.

Would you tell me what is the law of righteousness that scriptures refer to and the righteousness of faith, in your reading of scriptures?

Tong
R3135

 

[amigo de christo]

If you understood what the essence of being 'born again' meant you'd know it can indeed be stopped and is not irreversible.

Should i leave us with a reminder from paul and from Christ .
Remember the church of ephesus . That was where timothy was .
Now when writing to timothy paul made sure to include this .
That some of the widows have left off the faith they had at first .
Just as GOD told that same church ye have left off the love you had at first . REPENT OR ELSE .
As far as that goes most folks dont even know what it means to DENY the faith . They think its lip only
but i assure us we deny the faith , we deny Christ when we are hearers but not doers .
Just as paul also reminded them , But if any provides NOT for his own and specially for those of his own household
HE has DENIED THE FAITH and is WORSE than an Infidel . Worse . Yeah , for it had been better not to have known
the way of righteousness than after knowing it to abandon it . Just as peter too said .
Folks wanna hear many things . As for me , I am sticking to the BIBLE and to CHRIST .

 

[Tong2020]

Yep, and the unfruitful, unproductive Ephesians 5:11 are condemned to hell/outer darkness Matthew 25:25.

This is what I am concerned about. When one takes and teaches unfruitfulness as rewarded with condemnation to hell.

Tong
R3136

 

[Curtis]

Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn. And whatever you do, even denying Jesus we remain his children and he never stops loving us and welcoming us back when we see the error of our ways.

Yet children can be disinherited and fail to inherit anything from their family.

Now read all the scriptures that speak of the inheritance of the saints, including inheriting everlasting life, inheriting the kingdom of Christ - then the warning by Paul to the brethren that no one committing the sins that he lists, shall inherit the kingdom.

And when the prodigal son realized the error of his ways, and repented and returned to his father, the father said of the errant son: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN.

Obviously the son didn’t die physically and resurrect - how then was he dead?

He was DEAD IN HIS SINS:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

He was a son, but he was A DEAD SON, dead in his sins, and on his way to hell, until he returned in repentance.

Being a son doesn’t guarantee an inheritance.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the Blood of Jesus that saved you

Every time an Osaser sees the word 'saved' they've already defined the word as 'irreversibly saved', so every verse they see that talks about a Christian being saved they use as proof that you can't lose your salvation. That's called 'circular reasoning'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is what I am concerned about. When one takes and teaches unfruitfulness as rewarded with condemnation to hell.

Tong
R3136

Unfruitful 'believers' are condemned to hell because, ultimately, unfruitfulness is the sign of unbelief.

...land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. Hebrews 6:8​

That's why the Bible exhorts us to make our calling and election sure by doing something that believers do. If you can't do what believers do then you'll be able to see that you need to get saved. And if you are saved, the exhortation to 'do' will spur you on toward the 'love and good deeds' that believers do and which gives them assurance they belong to the truth and ready to meet Christ when he returns.

So, in regard to true believers.....

...we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, so that what you hope for may be fully realized. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Hebrews 6:9-12
​

As you can see, this is not a passage about the continual doing of works to earn salvation, as most in the church instantly interpret 'works' to mean. It's about the continuation of faith to inherit salvation (vs.12). The faith that justifies and saves a person is the faith that works (Galatians 5:6b).

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is also not about soils changing into another.

You were never the 1st kind of soil? I was for many years. And you've never been the 2nd kind of soil? Been there, done that. I've also got time spent in the 3rd kind of soil.....regrettable years of my life that I wish I could do over.

Just because you see yourself progressing and changing, and could identify with the soils used in the parable makes the parable to be about that.

You said it yourself, the parable is about fruitfulness. That’s it.

Tong
R3137

 

[Behold]

Every time an Osaser sees the word 'saved' they've already defined the word as 'irreversibly saved',

The only Osaser, is you.
You have the obsession with it.
I'm on this Forum, for not quite a year, and i never talk about that phrase, unless one of YOU< comes to me with it.
Why dont i ever bring it up?
Because its meaningless to a real believer, and only worries a self saver, a legalist, like you.

So, legalist, you have a carnal compulsion to talk about what you don't even understand.
You dont even understand the definition of this : OSAS.

Here is the Definition. "Once you are born again, you are always born again". "Once you are saved by the blood of Jesus, the blood of Jesus always keeps you saved".

See those? You are fighting that with your deception.

Listen, you were taught by a deceiver, that OSAS, is trying to prove that Grace is a license to sin.
And who is that Deceiver?
Its the Devil....its his OWN.
He created this idea of OSAS, in the time of JUDE and PAUL, that they were teaching Grace as (KJV) "Licentiousness".
They talk about this....both of them.
Now he has you doing it, thinking you are right.

Here is what the devil did to you.
He got you caught up in the BELIEF that you can lose your salvation, because he stole your faith in Christ to keep you saved.
You dont have that faith in Christ, you only have faith in faith.
You prove this over and over, as all you do here, is try to argue For the loss of Salvation.
And to defend that, to argue for that..... is to deny The Blood Atonement.
See, when you teach that salvation can be lost, you are teaching the error that Eternal Life, is not eternal,.... and YOU are proclaiming that YOU have more power to get rid of your salvation, then God has the Power of Christ's Blood to Keep you saved.

You are literally proclaiming that you have more power then the Blood of Jesus.

Thats some intense self righteousness you've choosen to keep, as God knows i have dealt with you about your self saving issue for more than 6 months.

You need to think .

 

[Behold]

Unfruitful 'believers' are condemned to hell because, ultimately, unfruitfulness is the sign of unbelief.
.

You keep quoting the legalist's manifesto.

Notice that it has no CROSS in it..>No GRACE in it...>No BLOOD of JESUS IN IT".

That You ferris bueller.
You're the legalist, who can't wait to post more about works, because you can't post anything about the blood of Jesus, unless you twist that also into some self saving heresy.