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Corlove13

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Uh huh. That is the Lord God "WITH" and "IN" a person. That person IS Converted.
The key is first having life.....the second part looks like justification

For look at Gal 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

So now we are at Justification
And will asked How is Justified by the faith ofChrist?....brb
 

Wrangler

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So then this part, are you saying this is not true in every case? If someone is the son of God, that Maybe they WON'T be like Jesus?

No. You are falsely equating believers with unbelievers (who once believed). You have to ask yourself why does Hebrews talk about the sin that has no atoning sacrifice?
 

GracePeace

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More eisegesis on your part in order to preserve your biased doctrine. In regards to the parable of the unforgiving servant, the picture illustrates God's total forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. In Matthew 18:28, where the servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant such a small debt of a hundred denarii is presented as a repulsive hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. Even though in this parable the master was moved with compassion to forgive this servant despite the condition of his wicked heart, that is not how it works with our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. The Lord isn't going to ultimately forgive unmerciful, unforgiving, wicked hearts no matter how much we beg and plead, then take it back and He also doesn’t order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the debt either. (vs. 25) We could fall to our knees all we want asking the Lord to be patient with us and we will pay back our enormous sin debt (vs. 26) but it's too huge to pay back, so that isn't going to work either.

Forgiveness of the huge debt was taken back by the master in the parable, who did not infallibly know that his servant had a wicked heart until it was later exposed, yet he was willing to show mercy and forgiveness just as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is willing to show mercy and forgiveness and the huge debt of the wicked servant was forgiven of his huge debt until his unforgiving nature was discovered. His master in this parable was a man who did not infallibly know his wicked servant's heart (unlike the Lord, Jesus Christ who infallibly knows our hearts) and did not realize that his servant was wicked until his heart was exposed by refusing to forgive his fellow servant in such a small matter. (vvs. 32-34)

Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean they were saved. The children of Israel were referred to as "the Lord’s servants," but they were not all saved.

In Leviticus 25:55, we read - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

In Isaiah 43:10, we read - You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servant, whom I have chosen..

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.
More eisegesis on your part in order to preserve your biased doctrine. In regards to the parable of the unforgiving servant, the picture illustrates God's total forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. In Matthew 18:28, where the servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant such a small debt of a hundred denarii is presented as a repulsive hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. Even though in this parable the master was moved with compassion to forgive this servant despite the condition of his wicked heart, that is not how it works with our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. The Lord isn't going to ultimately forgive unmerciful, unforgiving, wicked hearts no matter how much we beg and plead, then take it back and He also doesn’t order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the debt either. (vs. 25) We could fall to our knees all we want asking the Lord to be patient with us and we will pay back our enormous sin debt (vs. 26) but it's too huge to pay back, so that isn't going to work either.

Forgiveness of the huge debt was taken back by the master in the parable, who did not infallibly know that his servant had a wicked heart until it was later exposed, yet he was willing to show mercy and forgiveness just as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is willing to show mercy and forgiveness and the huge debt of the wicked servant was forgiven of his huge debt until his unforgiving nature was discovered. His master in this parable was a man who did not infallibly know his wicked servant's heart (unlike the Lord, Jesus Christ who infallibly knows our hearts) and did not realize that his servant was wicked until his heart was exposed by refusing to forgive his fellow servant in such a small matter. (vvs. 32-34)

Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not fully embraced God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean they were saved. The children of Israel were referred to as "the Lord’s servants," but they were not all saved.
1. No, actually, this is just "begging the question" on your part--and is an example of your own commitment to "preconceived beliefs". I take God at His Word when He says people will be blotted out of His Book--this is an example of it.
How do people get forgiven? By faith. Now, if you want to wave the fact that the guy was forgiven away, because it is inconvenient for your perspective (and it is), anyone could just wave any point of the parable that you think makes you point (none of them actually do) away. "Don't take that point seriously, take this point seriously." What a joke. I take it all seriously.
i. Don't try this pearl-clutching anachronistic attack on Jesus--the fact that the man was going to have his wife and children be put into servitude to pay debts was not unheard of. There were provisions for it in Torah. The reason you would raise this point is nothing but your abject ignorance your hope you can play on other peoples' ignorance and emotions. Pathetic. That was what was done to people back then. That was the consequence in the world back then.
ii. Whether the aforementioned parabolic consequence actually corresponds to something or not can be discussed, but Jesus doesn't tell this parable for no reason, He really does have a point to make--there are people God forgives, who must therefore have been of faith, and who are therefore inscribed in His Book, but who do thereafter disqualify themselves because of their sinfulness, and who are therefore blotted out Exodus 32:32-33, Psalm 69:28, Revelation 3:1-5.
Now, is it my fault that you are not prepared, and that you do not have a place in your (practically useful, yes, but just realistically wanting) "theology" for this eventuality taught in God's Word? No, I'm not here as your babysitter. My approach to Scripture does make room for this.
iii. If you want to say this is me trying to read my "preconceived beliefs" into Scripture, exactly when did I form those beliefs that you take issue? Before when? In between when I was informed by one Scripture and another? When I read stuff like Exodus 32:32-33, Psalm 89:16, Revelation 3:1-5 and believed those passages, and when I went and read the other verses like Matthew 18 and saw that God's Word was integrated and consistent? Is that what you mean by "preconceived"? I formed an opinion by reading God's Word? What in my approach exactly are you taking issue with? Just that it doesn't conform with your traditions instead of God's Word. Take God seriously!

2. "None of God's servants are wicked"? Oh, OK, it seems like your only problem is a very small problem that is easy to solve : you haven't read the Scriptures. In 1 Corinthians, the entire Church is condemned for boasting about a man having his father's wife. Is a man having his father's wicked? How about approving of that sin and boasting about that sin? Doesn't Romans 1 condemn approving sinful behavior? Are you really trying to deny that Christians sin? What are you saying? James condemns Christians as "adulterers and adulteresses" (married to God, but unfaithful to God) so what are you saying? Do you even think before typing?

3. "Israel was supposed to have been His servants, but not all of them were saved".
i. Actually, all of the Jews who came out of Egypt were "saved by the blood of the Lamb" yet "with most of them God was not pleased" and they fell under God's wrath in the wilderness and never inherited the promise--this happened to them to teach us, as a warning so that we will not do as they did and suffer the same consequences. That's in 1 Corinthians 10.
ii. So, you think this actually proves your point? LOL
God had gotten a People for Himself; a bunch of those people disqualified themselves by sinning Deuteronomy 32:5, Deuteronomy 32:21--and God had said "the one who has sinned against Me I will blot out of My book".
I recognize this as being my point.
God has gotten for Himself a different people today Deuteronomy 32:21, Hosea 1:9-10, Matthew 21:43, and the same dynamics remain--"the same yesterday, today, and forever".

So, yeah, as it has been said, "0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0."
You have proven nothing.
 

GracePeace

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While I am not understanding the middle passage nor go to a Church of Christ...

Let me give a couple of passages for you to consider what they could be saying.
Gal 2:16 kjv
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Galatians 2:16 "faith of Jesus Christ" needs to be understood as "faithfulness of Jesus Christ".
 
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marks

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Because they are only words to you....
And what is THAT supposed to mean? Well, that part I think I get.

Sure.

But what I was asking about, I just don't like to make guesses about imprecise language.

Like this . . . "to know God is behind you because He uphold you" To know God is behind you? ?

Anyway, your choice, accept my statement that I don't quite see the particular point you are trying to make here, and be a little more expressive, perhaps, or make rude statements to avoid that. You could just not reply. That's always an option.

If you find you just feel compelled to denigrate others, that's something to think about.

Much love!
 

Corlove13

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I don't think anyone here is talking about "lip service". Nor not taking responsibility for doing in our lives as God desires.

But we have very different ideas of what being born again means, I think.

Much love!
How would they know if it weren't merely head knowledge...if they believe the hea
It does not matter who judges. If there is only lip service faith it is dead.
It's like the passage :

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

Corlove13

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And what is THAT supposed to mean? Well, that part I think I get.

Sure.

But what I was asking about, I just don't like to make guesses about imprecise language.

Like this . . . "to know God is behind you because He uphold you" To know God is behind you? ?

Anyway, your choice, accept my statement that I don't quite see the particular point you are trying to make here, and be a little more expressive, perhaps, or make rude statements to avoid that. You could just not reply. That's always an option.

If you find you just feel compelled to denigrate others, that's something to think about.

Much love!
I wasn't trying to be rude.....but a person can explain words intellectually, but not have been in the words they speak.......And no offense by that......... but the word comes alive as we live it out....
 

marks

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Romans 6:12
The Voice

12 Don’t invite that insufferable tyrant of sin back into your mortal body so you won’t become obedient to its destructive desires.

Did you want to look through the passage in context from a translation? Or just pick out a verse from a paraphrase?

Romans 6:9-18 KJV
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I'm curious, what does this mean to you, "being then made from from sin". What does that involve? It appears a few times in this chapter, though not always translated from the same word.

Much love!
 
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Ferris Bueller

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We are exhorted to do a lot of things, ferris bueller

1. work out our salvation
2. present our bodies a living sacrifice
3. prove that we be in the faith
4. go into all the world
5. study to show yourself approved.

and many more "exhortations".

and if you do none of this, you are still born again., still saved.....if you are born again.

Jesus said...>"you MUST be born again"....and He never again said we "must" do anything, as regarding being reconciled to God, and staying that way.

Try to realize that God never said....>"now, i'll save you, but after that here is the TO DO LIST, and if you dont do it, plan on the lake of fire".

So, if you can ever see this and start believing RIGHT, you wont be offensive to the Cross regarding your words.
It's sad that you don't actually know what the works gospel is, and what it is not.
 

marks

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No. You are falsely equating believers with unbelievers (who once believed). You have to ask yourself why does Hebrews talk about the sin that has no atoning sacrifice?
OK so to be clear, you are of the mind that this passage is NOT TRUE as written?

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

And this one?

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

So then, even though this SAYS that if you are risen with Christ, that you will appear with Him in glory, that's not necessarily true, so if you are one whom becomes unborn due to unbelief or disobedience, then you won't actually appear with Him, even though you had been died and risen in Him? Born again?

Is that your view?

Much love!
 
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Corlove13

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I don't really know what you mean there.

Much love!
Mark -The surety of our salvation is what gives us the faith to overcome our flesh in this world.


Nope the last part is experiential, it's what is happening in Christ along the journey as We obey.....to know God is behind you because He uphold you as you walk by faith.....

This is our assurance
 

Wrangler

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It's like the passage :

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

As Ferris pointed out earlier, this is milk, not solid food.
 
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marks

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It does not matter who judges. If there is only lip service faith it is dead.
That's true, dead faith is dead faith. But I'm talking about a reborn child of God, and you seem certain that God would judge them as "not believing enough" or "not being obedient enough", but none of us are the judge, none of us know, and God has give assurances.

Much love!
 

Corlove13

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Did you want to look through the passage in context from a translation? Or just pick out a verse from a paraphrase?

Romans 6:9-18 KJV
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I'm curious, what does this mean to you, "being then made from from sin". What does that involve? It appears a few times in this chapter, though not always translated from the same word.

Much love!
Now what does it mean to bring the body into submission.....one must walk by the Spirit
 

Ferris Bueller

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I Disagree.

So You Tell me "WHY" the "CONVERTED" are exhorted "TO KEEP BELIEVING"...
Lol, I can see how that sounds so irrational to you. It sounds irrational to you because you already have it fixed in your mind that 'believing' and 'converted' mean 'forever believing and converted'. And that you're literally incapable of seeing those words any other way.

The saved, believing, converted Christian is exhorted to keep believing so they do not lose the benefit of so great a High Priest and Sacrifice....

Therefore, since we have a great high priest...let us hold firmly to what we profess. Hebrews 4:14

The reason to keep believing is right there! Since we have such a great high priest hold fast to your confession of so great a high priest! This is so outside of the paradigm of the Osas mindset that they can not see these plain words right under their noses in the Bible.
 
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