Christians Must Serve by the Law
- Thread starter GracePeace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I never heard anyone ever say the word under means condemned by. So again not sure if your argument
All right.
Per the OP, there're some proponents of Law (ie, "Judaizers) who'll argue that. I wasn't sure if you were one of them at first, but then drew it out to make the point.
Who was trying to steal Israel's identity and blessings? It might work better to just cite the parts of the OP you disagree with so that we're on the same page.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You do like to troll.
The point of the OP is in line with Jesus saying he has not come to abolish the law. As one church put it, Jesus commands us to fulfill the law IN A SPIRIT OF LOVE.
It’s not that it is OK to now murder, it is that you have accepted through faith divinity within you and no longer struggle to sin. Due to Jesus sacrifice, we get to live with the Spirit of God, in keeping and fulfilling the law, not by our power or will but his.
We are no longer under the law on our own power. Through Grace we live to a higher covenant, right action and right attitude; law and love.
Never forget the purpose of the law was never punitive but protective. I honor my parents, not because I will be punished if I don’t, but ought of love for Christ and them.
Not to be contrary, but...
1. My main intent was really was to argue against the idea that ANY Christians were under Law; I respond to the objection that "You think you can just live in sin!?" by clarifying that Grace makes us righteous.
2. I thought the Law really was punitive not only protective. "Why was the Law given? Because of transgression." "The Law is good if it is used properly. Knowing that the Law was not given for the righteous but for the unrighteous--for man slayers, etc,." "The Law came in to increase the transgression." "Sin will not have mastery over you because you are not under Law" for "the strength of sin is the Law." "The Law produces wrath." "Whoever is under the Law is under a curse."
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Great points!
Regarding point 1; too many Christians do not reflect Grace. Certainly, they do not reflect humility and love. One of the best ways to show this is how the violate the law. The law was needed when we were immature.
IMO, Jesus' command to love, though a higher command, is also more subjective. The law is more objective. I've heard too many Christians couch their graceless actions in loving terms. (They are not so much lying to us but themselves.) So, the law still has great value to the Spiritually immature.
Regarding point 2; that the law is analogous to protective commands is your mother telling you as a child not to touch a hot stove. By violating her command, you have committed 2 sins. First, you obviously disobeyed the command. More importantly, is that you failed to honor her before hand. Therefore, the consequences are 2-fold. 1st, you finger is burned. 2nd, your butt is burned for going against her to begin with.
Now that you are an adult, you know better than touch a hot stove and are no longer subordinate to your mother's commands. Although you do not live under her roof and her rules, you nonetheless act as she previously directed.
Thank God for Jesus that we do not have to live under the law, without the saving grace of the Holy Spirit of God.
These are legitimate points for discussion, but really open up and stray too far from the topic of debate--ie, whether or not Christians are to serve by Law.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The Law is not nullified by faith, but established by faith Romans 3:31; we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law when we are under Grace Romans 8:4.
Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
The Gentile was never under the Law.
Romans 2
9...the Jew first and also the Greek, 10...the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality.
12For all who have sinned without the law [Gentiles] will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law [Jews] will be judged by the law. ... 14 ...Gentiles, who do not have the law...
1 Corinthians 9
20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without the Law [Gentiles], I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Sin. Serve. Not the same.
If we keep to the subject of sin, what does living under Grace mean with respect to acceptable actions as they pertain to the 10 Commandments?
My Bible Study leader is fond of saying it is all about God's glory. Lying is generally bad but if it advances God's glory it is to be praised. The midwives in Moses time and Rahab during the Conquest of Canaan are 2 examples of violating the 10 commandments, in terms of the letter but not the Spirit of the law. Thoughts?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
What I'd said was a response to your purport that "Jesus already fulfilled the Law"--in fact, "we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law" when we are under Grace--Galatians 3 isn't relevant, it agrees with me because it teaches we're not under Law just as I do.
Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Grace is when God writes His laws on our hearts, and James calls this "the law of liberty"--you're free to do as God works in you to will and do.
This makes us fulfill the 10 Commandments... but 7th Day Sabbath regarded the old creation whereas we are a new creation, and sometimes you may "dishonor" you parents if it brings shame and dishonor on them for you to follow Christ.
Paul "lied" in a sense to pretend he was a Jew in order to win Jews 1 Corinthians 9:19-22. Jesus said to be shrewd like serpents but harmless like doves.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I think it is more that we should not violate the law as a general rule. The exception is when the letter violates the Spirit, such as lying to protect innocent lives.
Similar threads
