Proof that Jesus is God
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No, it is not. The trinity is not in the Bible because the entire Bible was written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.
What this means is any verse that you suppose supports trinitarianism can easily be justifiably interpreted another way.
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John 10:17 (CJB)
17 “This is why the Father loves me: because I lay down my life — in order to take it up again!
John 10:17 (CSBBible)
17 This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life so that I may take it up again.
John 10:17 (CEB)
17 "This is why the Father loves me: I give up my life so that I can take it up again.
John 10:17 (DRV)
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
John 10:17 (NCV)
17 The Father loves me because I give my life so that I can take it back again.
John 10:17 (NIV)
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again.
John 10:17 (NRSV)
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.
John 10:17 (GW)
17 The Father loves me because I give my life in order to take it back again.
John 10:17 (ICB)
17 The Father loves me because I give my life. I give my life so that I can take it back again.
John 10:17 (MLB)
17 “For this reason My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life in order that I may take it up again.
John 10:17 (NET1)
17 This is why the Father loves me[43] — because I lay down my life,[44] so that I may take it back again.
John 10:17 (NIV2011)
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
John 10:17 (AMP)
17 For this [reason] the Father loves Me, because I lay down My [own] life—to take it back again.
John 10:17 (HCSB)
17 This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
John 10:17 (MOFF)
17 This is why my Father loves me, because I lay down my life to take it up again.
John 10:17 (NJB)
17 The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again.
John 10:17 (NLT2)
17 “The Father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again.
John 10:17 (MSG)
17 This is why the Father loves me: because I freely lay down my life. And so I am free to take it up again.
"Let me ask you this; if Jesus were God, why is God and Jesus referred to as separate beings so many times? For instance, why does the resurrected Jesus say he has not yet gone to his God in John 20:17? Why does Jesus say his Father is the only true God in John 17:3. The simple answer is Jesus' God is the only God."
You can't even get past John 1 The Word was God and became flesh.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Wow! I guess your point is that the majority of trinitarian-translated Bibles render statements in the text in a trinitarian-supporting manner!
What a revelation! Who would ever have guessed it?
The truth is that no trinitarian-translated Bible should have chosen a non-trinitarian rendering.
“I have the right [exousia] to lay it down, and I have the right [exousia] to receive [lambano] it back again; this charge I have received [lambano] from my Father.” - New English Bible (NEB); REB; The Emphasized Bible; Weymouth; Young’s Concise Critical Bible Commentary.
Such a rendering, of course, is in line with the Father alone actually raising up the dead Jesus as so many scriptures plainly state.
The very trinitarian New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible tells us that exousia can mean several different things including “authority,” “right,” and “power.” It further shows us that the equally trinitarian New American Standard Bible (NASB) translates exousia as “authority” 65 times, as “right” 11 times, and as “power” only 11 times.
As the trinitarian New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology tells us, Jesus
“has the exousia to give his life and to take it again (Jn 10:18) .... Those who receive him and believe in his name are given exousia to become children of God (Jn 1:12).” - p. 610, Vol. 2, 1986.
John 1:12 is translated, “are given the right [exousia] or authority to become children of God” in the following trinitarian Bibles: NASB, ASV, NIV, NKJV, MKJV, LITV, AT, GNB, TEV, CEV, NEB, REB, CBW, BBE, LB, GodsWord, Holman NT, ISV NT, and the translations by trinitarians Young, Moffatt, Rotherham, and William Barclay.
Also, lambano most frequently means “receive.” The trinitarian New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible tells us that lambano can mean several different things including “receive,” “accept,” and “take.” It further shows us that the equally trinitarian New American Standard Bible (NASB) translates lambano as “receive” 132 times and all others (including 109 “take”s) only 122 times. Even when translated as “take” in the NASB (and other translations) lambano can often still be in the sense of receiving something that has been offered to those who are worthy - see Rev. 5:9; 10:8, 9; 22:17.
As the trinitarian New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology tells us,
“lambano means to receive (in the more passive sense): e.g. a bite, money, alms. It is important with theological objects: eternal life (Mk.10:30)”. And, “ lambano is theologically significant in its meaning of receive. It corresponds with God’s giving (didomai): God gives - man receives. (i) Jesus himself LIVES by RECEIVING: he has received his commission, the Spirit, power (Jn 10:18; Acts 2:33; Rev. 2:28 [2:27 in most Bibles]). He is the gift of God and lives by receiving.” - p. 748, vol . 3, 1986.
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tigger 2
Well-Known Member
kcnalp wrote: "You can't even get past John 1 The Word was God and became flesh."
........................
I have presented over and over the honest truth of John 1:1c and you and your fellows have shrugged it off by (usually) ignoring or simply saying some general insult. None of you seem to care enough to actually examine even one of the steps presented in these personal studies. Nor do I ever expect anyone to honestly and carefully examine any part of any one my John 1:1c. studies.
But I do think it is an answer in itself when you simply use personal attack or ignore or deride them without even studying them.
Examining the Trinity
Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity
Examining the Trinity: DEFinite John 1:1c
Examining the Trinity: QUAL ("Qualitative" John 1:1c)
........................
I have presented over and over the honest truth of John 1:1c and you and your fellows have shrugged it off by (usually) ignoring or simply saying some general insult. None of you seem to care enough to actually examine even one of the steps presented in these personal studies. Nor do I ever expect anyone to honestly and carefully examine any part of any one my John 1:1c. studies.
But I do think it is an answer in itself when you simply use personal attack or ignore or deride them without even studying them.
Examining the Trinity
Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity
Examining the Trinity: DEFinite John 1:1c
Examining the Trinity: QUAL ("Qualitative" John 1:1c)
Quote my "insult".
Do you really think I'm interested in your JW links?
John 1 The Word was God and became flesh!
Yep still there.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Do you even understand the term "personal studies"? These are my personal studies with little or no reference to WT information. (Originally I had a beginning comment which stated that I was purposely avoiding evidence presented by the WT and, instead using mostly trinitarian scholars and grammarians to explain why I used certain methods in my original studies. I see that we have left it off in many of our blog studies.)
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tigger 2
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Again, not an answer to the question. Obviously, you do not want to even defend any evidence that does not support your opinion.
This conversation is over.
Stop playing the victim.
Gen 1:26 God said let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness.
Father and Son!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Tacit destruction of the existence of the trinity; only Father and Son. Or monotheist God to billions of heavenly beings.
Either way, this one verse cannot supersede the 10,000 times God is referred to using singular pronouns.
I am embarrassed for your desperate attempts to support the trinity from unitarian texts.
I didn't say "only". Do you remember the title of this topic?
Proof that Jesus is God
Your JW opinion noted and rejected.
You're embarrassed that I provide Scripture that you can't refute? Hmm.
Isaiah 48:16-17 (NKJV)
16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me." 17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God,
Amen Jesus, You are God!
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No.
I am embarrassed for you in ignoring Scripture that you cannot refute.
I personally believe that Jesus is God but he is not the Father. I believe Father is God but he is not the Son. I believe that the Holy Spirit is God....He has all the attributes of the Father pre-cross and the Son, post-cross. They are one God
I'm giving Scripture. Have at it.
"a Child is born"
"a Son"
"Mighty God"
Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
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