Proof that Jesus is God

[keithr]

ReChoired said: ↑

A total misunderstanding of Christianity, and the Bible. Christianity and the Bible teaches that humanity died, not divinity. No wonder you are in the error you are in.​

LOL. Another sad trinitarian Appeal to Dualism. Jesus died and that’s how you know he is not God.

Indeed. Not only that but:

Numbers 23:19 (WEB): God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. ...​

and

Malachi 3:6 (WEB): “For I, Yahweh, don’t change; ..."​

Jesus became a man, so he could not have been God, who never changes and is not a man. Jesus also referred to himself as the Son of Man, which again God would not do.

 

[keithr]

Jesus is more than the way the truth and the life, He is our Saviour (Act 16:31) and, wonder of wonders, He is: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6) While all the time, the omnipresent ONE GOD who humbled himself on earth for our sake.

Yes, Jesus will be referred to as a "mighty god", for he has great power ("mighty") and wisdom ("wonderful counselor"), he is the Prince of Peace and he will establish peace on the Earth, and he is the father of eternity (literal translation, not "eternal father") - through Jesus we will have eternal life. But he will not be referred to as the "almighty God", who is our heavenly Father, Yahweh.

Do you really think that God, Yahweh, could humble Himself? The definition of humble is "someone who knows they are not perfect; having or showing a consciousness of one's defects or shortcomings" (from Humble Meaning | Best 16 Definitions of Humble), or "having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience, etc." (from Definition of humble | Dictionary.com). Who would God humble Himself to? Jesus, on the other hand, humbled himself before God, his Father, and became God's servant, doing only what God told him to do, including sacrificing his own life.

In Acts 2 (WEB) Peter said:
22) “Men of Israel, hear these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by [through] him among you, even as you yourselves know,
23) him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and killed;
24) whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.
25) For David says concerning him, ‘I saw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved.
26) Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced. Moreover my flesh also will dwell in hope;
27) because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.
28) You made known to me the ways of life. You will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

[Peter quotes from Psalm 16, a prayer of David to Yahweh, and applies it to Jesus.]​

29) “Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

[i.e. David's body has seen decay.]​

30) Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31) he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul wasn’t left in Hades, and his flesh didn’t see decay.
32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.

[If God, Yahweh, raised up Jesus then Jesus cannot be God.]​

33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.

[Jesus, God's only begotten son, has been exalted by God. God can't exalt Himself!]​

34) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,
35) until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

[From Psalm 110:1 (WEB): Yahweh says to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.”]​

36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

 

[kcnalp]

Indeed. Not only that but:

Numbers 23:19 (WEB): God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. ...​

and

Malachi 3:6 (WEB): “For I, Yahweh, don’t change; ..."​

Jesus became a man, so he could not have been God, who never changes and is not a man. Jesus also referred to himself as the Son of Man, which again God would not do.

Emphasis on "that he should lie".

 

[Cooper]

Yes, Jesus will be referred to as a "mighty god", for he has great power ("mighty") and wisdom ("wonderful counselor"), he is the Prince of Peace and he will establish peace on the Earth, and he is the father of eternity (literal translation, not "eternal father") - through Jesus we will have eternal life. But he will not be referred to as the "almighty God", who is our heavenly Father, Yahweh.

Do you really think that God, Yahweh, could humble Himself? The definition of humble is "someone who knows they are not perfect; having or showing a consciousness of one's defects or shortcomings" (from Humble Meaning | Best 16 Definitions of Humble), or "having a feeling of insignificance, inferiority, subservience, etc." (from Definition of humble | Dictionary.com). Who would God humble Himself to? Jesus, on the other hand, humbled himself before God, his Father, and became God's servant, doing only what God told him to do, including sacrificing his own life.

In Acts 2 (WEB) Peter said:
22) “Men of Israel, hear these words! Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by [through] him among you, even as you yourselves know,
23) him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and killed;
24) whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.
You look at the flesh that was necessary for God to come among us, so that his fleshly body could pay the ransom for our sins. This is something a sheep of lamb cannot do, it needs a perfect sinless man.
25) For David says concerning him, ‘I saw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved.
26) Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced. Moreover my flesh also will dwell in hope;
27) because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.
28) You made known to me the ways of life. You will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

[Peter quotes from Psalm 16, a prayer of David to Yahweh, and applies it to Jesus.]​

29) “Brothers, I may tell you freely of the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

[i.e. David's body has seen decay.]​

30) Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,
31) he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that his soul wasn’t left in Hades, and his flesh didn’t see decay.
32) This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses.

[If God, Yahweh, raised up Jesus then Jesus cannot be God.]​

33) Being therefore exalted by the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this, which you now see and hear.

[Jesus, God's only begotten son, has been exalted by God. God can't exalt Himself!]​

34) For David didn’t ascend into the heavens, but he says himself, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit by my right hand,
35) until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

[From Psalm 110:1 (WEB): Yahweh says to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.”]​

36) “Let all the house of Israel therefore know certainly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

You are looking at the flesh that was necessary for God to come among us. Also important was that the perfect man had to pay the penalty for the sins of mankind, this is something no other can do, neither can a sheep or lamb. So God had to become flesh to provide a way of escape for our sins. The Jewish scapegoat was ineffectual.

So do not mock the flesh, but thank the Father in Him, who is God with us for all that He has done on our behalf.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Indeed. Not only that but:

Numbers 23:19 (WEB): God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. ...​

and

Malachi 3:6 (WEB): “For I, Yahweh, don’t change; ..."​

Jesus became a man, so he could not have been God, who never changes and is not a man. Jesus also referred to himself as the Son of Man, which again God would not do.

I look forward to an intelligent rebuttal from the advocates of duality. But I won’t hold my breath.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes, Jesus will be referred to as a "mighty god", f

Says Kingdom Hall? lol

 

[Cooper]

I look forward to an intelligent rebuttal from the advocates of duality. But I won’t hold my breath.

Read about the birth of Jesus and who he really is.
.

 

[ReChoired]

Nope. Just a man died. Not sure how you reach concepts died when only a man died. It's so odd.

I was referring to the nature. Yet consider:

2Co_5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

 

[ReChoired]

If the plural "our" in GE 1:26 is important, the singular pronoun "me" in the 1C must be even more important

No, both are equally important. The "our/we" etc refer to multiple persons, while the "me" refers to one of those persons. It is really simple when one does not deny the plurality of persons present. It's like saying, "Our forum is filled with heretics, but they do not affect me." Did you see the plurality and singularity amongst the equality of human beings/persons being referred to?

 

[Wrangler]

Read about the birth of Jesus and who he really is.
.

Jesus is the Son of God. This proves he is not God.

Hunter is the son of Joe Biden. This proves Hunter is not Joe Biden.

 

[ReChoired]

Dualism. Rejected out of hand.

I know you reject it "out of hand", because that is your foundational bias, your predetermined and incorrectly taught a priori, that cannot be demonstrated from scripture, though I have demonstrated my position, quite clearly, of which you are not even going to attempt to address, and thus it is easier for you to simply 'hand wave' it away and pretend they do not exist.

 

[ReChoired]

Jesus is the Son of God. This proves he is not God.

No, it proves the Son is not the Father, for you swap definitional terms, and are unequal in your assertion. In other words you use a proper name in comparison with a nature/position. That is incorrect comparison. I can rightly say that the Son is not the Father. I can even say that Jesus is not the Ancient of Days. I cannot say that the Son of the Father, who has the eternal nature of Deity, does not share the eternal nature of Deity with His Father. Father and Son are of the same nature. This is part of what makes the relationship of Father and Son, even as I share the nature of my earthly father (in the nature of mankind; humanity).

Hunter is the son of Joe Biden. This proves Hunter is not Joe Biden.

Yes, but that comparison is not as the comparison above that you just made. It's called a bait and switch tactic. In this representation, you used 2 names. In the first comparison you did not do this.

 

[Wrangler]

No, both are equally important.

No, both are not equally important. One is dicta - that you are reading into - while the other is a command.

For instance, If I say I’ll be home at sunset (that may be 6PM to 9 PM on a given night). However, if the command is for you to make dinner by 5 PM, that is more important because you have the burden to act on the command, not the dicta comment regarding sunset arrival.

 

[Wrangler]

I know you reject it "out of hand", because that is your foundational bias

Logic is my foundational basis, along with definitions and language usage. Contradictions do not exist in reality. Dualism is accepting contradictions as a means to defend flawed doctrine.

God is unchanging but Jesus became flesh. To a dualist, when Scripture reads that God is unchanging, it means both changing and unchanging.

 

[Wrangler]

No, it proves the Son is not the Father,

Wrong. Absolutely we wrong. Language usage. Definition. Logic.

Sons are not their own Fathers.

 

[ReChoired]

Sons are not their own Fathers.

That is what I said, "No, it proves the Son is not the Father,"

 

[ReChoired]

God is unchanging

Deals with unchanging in character, consider the context:

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Additionally, Jesus still retained the divine nature (nature of Deity), even when He took upon Himself the nature of mankind (Phil. 2).

You can also consider that God 'repents' in several places.

Gen_6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen_6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Jdg_2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them.

1Sa_15:11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

1Ch_21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Exo_32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

1Sa_15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

2Sa_24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Psa_106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

Jer 15:6 Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

Jer_26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.

Joe_2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

Amo_7:3 The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.

Amo_7:6 The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD.

Jon_3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

God has options from Justice/Judgment to Mercy.

 

[ReChoired]

Emphasis on "that he should lie".

I know, simple to read the continuing context of the verse, huh, and not merely stop short of understanding at the comma as several here do?

This text (cited out of context by Arians, Muslims, Atheists, etc):

Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

The text does not say that God did not take upon Himself the nature of mankind at any point. Philippians 2, etc as shown showed that the Son (Deity) did so.

What that text clearly states, as you brought out very simply, and plainly, is that God does not lie as mankind does. For scripture is clear that God does not lie (which deals with character again, which goes right back to the verses, Malachi 3:6; Psalms 102:27; Hebrews 1:12, 13:8):

Heb_6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

That refers to Deity. Deity cannot lie. Humanity can (possible to, not that they need to) lie (and all except Jesus have lied).

Now, of those who deny Jesus as Deity can find me one place in scripture (KJB) where Jesus lied.

 

[ReChoired]

No, both are not equally important. One is dicta - that you are reading into - while the other is a command.

For instance, If I say I’ll be home at sunset (that may be 6PM to 9 PM on a given night). However, if the command is for you to make dinner by 5 PM, that is more important because you have the burden to act on the command, not the dicta comment regarding sunset arrival.

Please explain how I am 'reading into' the word "us/we" as a plurality of persons, or 'reading into' the word "me" as a singularity of person? The words "us/we" are inherently plurality of persons. It's as simple as a common dictionary. The same goes for "me".

Secondarily, you are making an assertion that one is more 'important' than the other by subjective reasoning.

For instance, I (as an adult) can say to my younger brother or sister, "I will be home by 'such and such' time ...", and the younger child can issue a command for me to be home at a specified time, but I am free to relegate that order to of little value being that I am the one in the responsible position. In this way, this subjectivity reverses your subjectivity.

You stated that logic was your foundation? Doesn't seem so to me, but rather subjectivism is. Yet, no matter the case, Scripture (KJB) is my foundation, not frail human logic (foolish wisdom of this world). Instead, God's word supercedes in all matters of faith and practice over and above my logic, or feelings or flesh.

I suggest you change your foundation to the true one, "Thus saith the LORD".

I can also assume that others reading this thread see the rabbit trail that those who deny Jesus as Deity always travel down once they cannot address proper scriptural evidence of Jesus' eternal nature as Deity. It just goes from one sad thing to another, further and further from scripture.

 

[Cooper]

Nope. Just a man died. Not sure how you reach concepts died when only a man died. It's so odd.

You would be well advised to read up on blasphemy.
.

 

[ReChoired]

JW, Arians, Muslims, etc all claim that Jesus is a created being, rather than Deity. Yet, they do not realize the very serious problem they create for themselves in so believing and teaching. They deny their own salvation in so doing, consider:

The Bible says:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus claimed to be the "I am" (Jesus JEHOVAH (LORD) the eternal Person/Being of the Son, not the Person/Being of the Father (JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days)) , and to those who do not believe this shall remain and die in their sins.

Why?

Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Isa_63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

Jesus, the Son of the Father, Deity, took all the sins of the whole world upon Himself, and bare it "alone". Only Deity could ever do such a thing. Alone. It takes almighty power to do that. It takes someone not below, or beneath the Law.

All creation finds its origins in Christ Jesus (The Son, by command of the Father), which is why He could take the sins of all mankind upon Himself. No created being, no matter how exalted, could ever do what He did. Created beings are amenable (under obligation) to God's law, but it is written of the Son, that He was equal with the Law, the very "fellow" of the Father:

Numbers 19:2 - "... without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:"

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Zec_13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

A created being cannot offer up their life as a ransom, for their life is not their own to offer, but is borrowed from The Eternal Life (Deity), and neither could they a single person offer up their life for more than their own life (single).

Pro_22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

Act_17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

However, the Son of the Father could, for all creation came from Him (John 1:1-3; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; Hebrew 1:1-3, etc).