Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
And on the latter, you only affirmed what you say about the babes in Christ who dies as babes.

...who die in unbelief, because of their immaturity. Like the soil in the Parable of the soil that did not retain the word because it was the soil of an immature believer who checked out because of hardship. Make sure you understand the whole argument. Falling away seems to be linked to the immature in the Bible (i.e. the Galatians, the Parable of the Sower, the child who is stumbled....), not linked to the mature, obedient, fruitful believer.

And here again affirmed your take on the babes in Christ, the immature children of God. There goes the babes in Christ, the little children of God, who died deceived by false teachers in their immaturity, expects nothing from Christ comes that day, to be told “I never knew you”, “ depart from Me”, “ you who practice lawlessness”.

And again, the persistent miuse of the said parable.

Tong
R3343

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Paul said there was no law given that could give life. That is plain to me and requires no further explanation.

You would be right if there was no further explanation in scripture. But there is, and you are ignoring it.

With regards that statement of Paul concerning the law, there is no need to explain such a plain statement of truth. We could very well have this truth explain other scriptures that are not stated so plainly that needs the light of plain statement of truths like it.

So there is nothing to ignore, at least for me.

Tong
R3344

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That statement says nothing about man nor what man could or
could not do.

That's right. That information is given in other passages of scripture.

The thing is, what Paul stated there is a plain statement of truth concerning the given law, that there was no law given that could give life. Any Christian would have no difficulty understanding that.

If you ask yourself, was there a law given that could give life? The answer is simple, None. Period. Nothing could make that even more clear. Unless.....

Tong
R3345

 

[Corlove13]

Your “ one night stand “ analogy is too ridiculous to comment on....when you trust in Jesus to Save you —-which just might be something a little important —- God puts His Spirit in you and that is when your life gets “ changed” .... Christianity 101..... spare us with your obvious observations and lectures.....we ain't near as stupid as you think we are.....

It's ok to trust in Jesus to save you...
But according to Ephesian 1:13 Jesus is the Gospel ..........of your salvation. SO before you trust in Jesus "to Save you" you First must come to believe who He is...however the father gets you to.

For Jesus has say (word up) over everything in heaven and on earth.

He is the "Son of the living God" Peter answered
We know Jesus said he was blessed because the Father revealed that to Him.

So Regeneration comes before Justification...
And it's not possible to see how sanctification through the Spirit leads to experiencing eternal life now. If you only see Justification as Salvation.

You see your Status alone, and are trusting in your status........which will keep you from understanding being saved from your present acts of sin......Not the Penalty...but the real behavior.

Therefore your security is in your Status
Not the Knowing......meaning to live up to that status you been called.

Because if by the Grace through the Spirit you put away the deeds of the flesh...you shall "live." This is ungoing through out the journey here on earth.

Which means you can have heaven in you now.. So you don't have to wait until you die...

Which your view could not see.
But if you look at the old cov.....the Ark went where ever the people were.
God wants to be known, But He is Holy....

So he says be Holy as I am Holy....
Once saved always saved make sanctification optional to being saved Wholely ....And God want to save the whole being.....which includes your life here on earth.

1 Thess 5:23-24 says,“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Corlove13]

“ Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”..... God makes the first move.....Anybody can hear the Gospel and it is “Foolishness to those that Perish”.....like “ Lydia, the Seller Of purple” whose story is told in Acts—— God “ opened her heart “ so that she could go beyond just hearing the Gospel —— she Believed it.....

The starting point of Salvation is the Conviction Of Sin Given to blessed people by the Holy Spirit so that see they are sinners that need a Savior.....when one actually sees his Wretchedness before a Holy God and sees that He is helpless and hopeless and truly DESERViNG Of Hell —— THAT becomes the impetus to “ Turn to God ( saving repentance) with Faith in Jesus Christ .....like the Publican in Jesus story , all you have to do is cry out, ( with a Contrite Heart Given to you by the Holy Spirit) , “Lord Jesus, have Mercy on me , a Sinner....”

That prayer, said sincerely ,will get the job done.It will get you “ Justified”, as Jesus said......you are “ fit for Heaven” now.....Remember That it was God that started it all when He gifted you with a visit from the Holy Spirit That Convicted you Of Sin and gave you the same “ Contrite Heart” That the Publican had and had you “ Turn to God” ( Repentance) ...God gave the world a Promise That He will never break....” Turn to Me and I will turn to you”..... it’s that simple ....it worked for me...

I think I found something We can work on,.when you wrote:

God gave the world a Promise That He will never break....” Turn to Me and I will turn to you”..... it’s that simple ....it worked for me...

You are right in your saying that God is secure!
Therefore not Osas but [GSGAS ]God is secure God Always Secure. So after ones has been born they with the guidance of the Spirit, still need to stay on the course. For on that course one walks in His statutes.

Psalms 91:1
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will remain secure and rest in the shadow of the Almighty [whose power no enemy can withstand].

Here it says "no enemy can withstand"...so this shows they were saved from present circumstances on earth.

Therefore one must remain to be secure.

For all We need to do Is look back on the Journey of Israel to learn from. Why didn't many enter the promise land; Only Joshua and Caleb?

They believed that God would help them.
For Israel were all called out under the rule of God, BUT ONLY 2 ENTERED.

Hebrews
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[kcnalp]

Do you think Jesus promoted “ Nonsense?”.....He was the First to Teach and Preach OSAS .....how nice it is to be on God’s Side..” All Those That Believe In Me ALREADY HAVE Eternal Life , and they can NEVER come under Condemnation”

One single verse From Jesus blasts ALL of you Confused , ignorant NOSAS adherents to smithereens....
Not one of you weak, bottle- fed milk drinkers ever address this verse....and for very good reason....you CANT......unless you can’t understand Plain English....

You like to pick and choose the verses that fit YOUR OSAS doctrine.

Written to Christians:
Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Scripture reveals that perhaps “ The Law” ain't all that great—- it had “ its” problems too



Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Do all these things mean the law is bad, or just bad for you?

 

[Corlove13]

Scripture reveals that perhaps “ The Law” ain't all that great—- it had “ its” problems too



Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. MATTHEW 15:17

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple

Roman's 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

ASV
Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

BSB
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh, BB, did you forget we went over this already?


We have gone over “EVERYTHING” already......multiple times.....it’s really time to move on....we are just wasting valuable computer ink at this point....

Let’s move on to more meaningful things like going to Hell because you got a tattoo ....lol....

 

[Corlove13]

What I understand is what scriptures says concerning that.

Paul said there was no law given that could give life. That is plain to me and requires no further explanation. That statement says nothing about man nor what man could or
could not do. It simply tells us what it plainly states regarding the law that was given through Moses to Israel.

Tong
R3340

But let me give you a passage that shows why natural man could not do it then:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Do all these things mean the law is bad, or just bad for you?

The Law is GREAT......if you know how to use it.....just like Paul said...

If one tries to use it for their Justification....they got BIG problems . “ By The Works Of The Law, no man will be Justified”

The Law was given to show that you can’t keep it.....it was given to “ shut you up” and turn to The Savior.....Legalist, Religionists and Tares still haven’t learned to “ Shut Up” when it comes to making claims that obedience to the Law can Save a person...

The Law was “ weak and useless” in the sense that had “No POWER” to Save anybody.....that missing POWER is in the Gospel .Go with the Gospel .Rest in the Gospel. Simply Believing it will do something the Law was never intended to do—-Save you.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What I understand is what scriptures says concerning that.

Paul said there was no law given that could give life. That is plain to me and requires no further explanation. That statement says nothing about man nor what man could or
could not do. It simply tells us what it plainly states regarding the law that was given through Moses to Israel.

But let me give you a passage that shows why natural man could not do it then:

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3

The purpose of the law was not so man may be justified through it. We can read scriptures concerning the purpose of the law. So we don’t expect that regarding the law. God is wise.

Tong
R3346

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

What does turning away from believing and trusting Him look like, after one has trusted Him to save them?
We trusted Him to save us alive just like Israel did when they stepped out under the towering wall of water.
Then they did not continue in that trust when it came to temporal provisions.
We turn away in that same exact way, worrying about the economy, money, how we will pay the rent, how we don’t have a million dollars saved for retirement.
We make the same mistake they did, but we have found a way to cheat death and we declare that God will not cut us off for unbelief as He did with Israel. And out of the other side of our mouth we declare that God never changes...

what kind of strange blindness is that?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh, BB, did you forget we went over this already?

"...make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:5-9
​

We are to have the attributes of the Spirit in increasing measure, BB. That is how you make your calling and election sure and know that you have God's grace in salvation. Assurance of salvation comes from how you act, not from believing that you can never lose your salvation. What assurance does believing you can never lose your salvation give if you don't even have the assurance that you're even saved in the first place?

All of those additions? I have them. And they keep increasing .Without even trying. Never.

If Assurance comes from the way we “ act” or in other words- “ Perform” .....how we ever know when our Performance is “ good enough” ....there is ZERO Assurance in that

Christ’s “ Performance” was so great , I hardly take the time to look at my own....HIS Performance and my TRUST in that Performance is what Saves me....not mine or anybody else’s pitiful attempts for Perfection....

I “DO” the required things because I don’t try .....I let God do it .....I let God do His Work THROUGH me.....”

You wanna know what True Faith is ? “ Letting go and letting God” Try it sometime if you have the Faith to do it—— the results will be much better and as I say, you don’t even have to try.....

The admonishments given by James and Paul do not HAVE to happen.....but they WILL happen if you just practice Faith and let the Holy Spirit hang around long enough....Paul said we continue our Christian Walk the Same way we started it—- FAITH. “ From Faith to Faith”. I do “ MY” job—practice Faith, and GOD does “ HIS” job.....TRANSFORMING ( not me changing myself) me into the Image Of His Son....all this thing’s mentioned are included in this Transformation....” The man who finds life will find it by Trusting God”..... from start to finish, it’s FAITH .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Do all these things mean the law is bad, or just bad for you?

The Law is Bad for me and you and for everyone —— because all it can do is show us our wretchedness .Its “ Bad News”.It shows us we are headed for Hell because we can’t keep it....

The “ Good News” is that there is a “ loop- hole” in having to keep the Law perfectly in order to be Saved.....it’s called “ Grace”...... get it by Resting in the Gospel .You can find that in 1 Cor15:1-4....

A wise man will take the Law and try to obey it because it is God’s “ Instruction Book” on how to live a blessed life.....it is great in that sense.....as great as it is....it won’t Save you.....only Faith in Christ , who kept the Law “ for” you , can accomplish that....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If Assurance comes from the way we “ act” or in other words- “ Perform” .....how we ever know when our Performance is “ good enough” ....there is ZERO Assurance in that

BB, it isn't about being good enough. It's about being different today than you were yesterday. Growth. Increase. That's what confirms your calling and election. It's right there in 2 Peter 1:5-11.

I'm at work and can't spend time reading everything, but I will later.

 

[Corlove13]

.

 

[Corlove13]

The purpose of the law was not so man may be justified through it. We can read scriptures concerning the purpose of the law. So we don’t expect that regarding the law. God is wise.

Tong
R3346

The purpose of the law was not so man may be justified through it. We can read scriptures concerning the purpose of the law. So we don’t expect that regarding the law. God is wise.

Tong
R3346

As our discussion was way back.
The purpose was to lead us to Christ.
Where we are Justifed by faith.

So.......if Jesus fullfilled the Law and He is the Son of God the first fruit.
Then,Things are done only through Him...

So we too uphold the law through faith

 

[Charlie24]

What does turning away from believing and trusting Him look like, after one has trusted Him to save them?
We trusted Him to save us alive just like Israel did when they stepped out under the towering wall of water.
Then they did not continue in that trust when it came to temporal provisions.
We turn away in that same exact way, worrying about the economy, money, how we will pay the rent, how we don’t have a million dollars saved for retirement.
We make the same mistake they did, but we have found a way to cheat death and we declare that God will not cut us off for unbelief as He did with Israel. And out of the other side of our mouth we declare that God never changes...

what kind of strange blindness is that?

As I've said many times, one must understand the difference in the backslider and the blasphemer.

The backslider is still saved and subject to the chastisement of God.

The blasphemer has walked from Christ, no longer believing, as illustrated in the OP.

 

[Corlove13]

All of those additions? I have them. And they keep increasing .Without even trying. Never.

If Assurance comes from the way we “ act” or in other words- “ Perform” .....how we ever know when our Performance is “ good enough” ....there is ZERO Assurance in that

Christ’s “ Performance” was so great , I hardly take the time to look at my own....HIS Performance and my TRUST in that Performance is what Saves me....not mine or anybody else’s pitiful attempts for Perfection....

I “DO” the required things because I don’t try .....I let God do it .....I let God do His Work THROUGH me.....”

You wanna know what True Faith is ? “ Letting go and letting God” Try it sometime if you have the Faith to do it—— the results will be much better and as I say, you don’t even have to try.....

The admonishments given by James and Paul do not HAVE to happen.....but they WILL happen if you just practice Faith and let the Holy Spirit hang around long enough....Paul said we continue our Christian Walk the Same way we started it—- FAITH. “ From Faith to Faith”. I do “ MY” job—practice Faith, and GOD does “ HIS” job.....TRANSFORMING ( not me changing myself) me into the Image Of His Son....all this thing’s mentioned are included in this Transformation....” The man who finds life will find it by Trusting God”..... from start to finish, it’s FAITH .

BB"-If Assurance comes from the way we “ act” or in other words- “ Perform” .....how we ever know when our Performance is “ good enough” ....there is ZERO Assurance in that"

Faith works...........by Love
And assurance does come by a Faith that works



Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

So what is the Cause- Keeping His Words...
What is the outcome- The Father and Son make abode.

Next...................
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

What is the cause-mortifying the deeds of the flesh.
What is the result- you shall live

Next......................

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin
John 1:7

Cause of action-walk in the light
Outcome- the blood of Jesus cleanses

Next............

1 John 3

18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence: 20Even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things.

What in cause of action- love in action and truth
What is the out come- assures our hearts in His pressence