Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[Ziggy]

We should observe everyday.

Psa 118:19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:
Psa 118:20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
Psa 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Are these not to be observed then? Are these any less superior to the two?

Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
Lev 19:14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Lev 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Didn't Jesus teach the same commandments?
All of them?

Isn't the breaking of these commandments what led Jesus to call out the hypocrites in those days?

The commandments haven't changed but the administration of them have.
Under Moses there was NO mercy or forgiveness.
Jesus came and brought the Truth of God's mercy and forgiveness.

Where would civilization be without a moral code of conduct?

Oh wait.. let's revisit 2020 and watch the riots and protests and anrchy and total disregard for life and property...
Let's just toss out the commandments God didn't really mean what he said..
It was just temporary...

Rioting is peaceful and praying is a sin.
That kind of thinking is turning the world upside down.

just my 2 cents
Hugs

 

[justbyfaith]

If the old ten were still in effect, the penalty for breaking them would still be in effect, which is death by stoning. The same body of law the ten commands were part of, has the death penalty for breaking them.

It should be clear that as concerning condemnation, believers are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

As concerning obedience, we are under the law "to Christ" (1 Corinthians 9:21)...the law of the LORD is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10; Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

So, they are still in effect, just not as concerning condemnation. We obey them not out of fear of condemnation but because we have the Holy Spirit and are motivated by love.

Note that Jesus said the love command IS A NEW COMMAND, not an old command restated, but a new command.

Yes, it is a new command in that it is related to how Jesus loved us, in dying on the Cross (see 1 John 3:16).

It is also an old command (1 John 2:7-8) that was even brought forward from the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18).

A new command in that it is given from a completely different perspective than was previously given; in relation to the Cross.

 

[Curtis]

So, they are still in effect, just not as concerning condemnation. We obey them not out of fear of condemnation but because we have the Holy Spirit and are motivated by love.

Absolutely wrong. Paul warned that if you keep any part of the old covenant law, you are required to keep ALL OF IT. All 613 parts of the law.

He also warned that if you go back to the law, you fall from Grace.
.

 

[Ziggy]

Paul said..

 

[justbyfaith]

Absolutely wrong. Paul warned that if you keep any part of the old covenant law, you are required to keep ALL OF IT. All 613 parts of the law.

He also warned that if you go back to the law, you fall from Grace.
.

No, that is referring to seeking to be justified by the law.

If you know that you have been justified through faith in Jesus Christ, and obey His commandments out of love for Him, this is not going to condemn you if you do not keep all of the commandments perfectly. You have been justified through faith in Jesus Christ; and the law, which came 430 years after, is not going to disannul the promise.

Jesus said, If you love me, obey my commandments;

And I would say to you that commandments obeyed out of love for the One who has redeemed you are not going to condemn you for being obeyed.

To say otherwise is backwards thinking.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, I have made my case for the idea that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.

 

[Curtis]

.

 

[Curtis]

No, that is referring to seeking to be justified by the law.

Since that’s the only reason the law was given or kept, my statement stands.

If you keep any part of it, you must keep all of it.

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION, that has been done away - which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives LIFE.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written andengraven in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth isglorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation, and has been done away, is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for homicide - being put to death by stoning:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with anotherman's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it isholy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.


You can't have one without the other.

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".


Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.


The ten commands ended when the old covenant ended, because the ten are called “the covenant on two tables of stone” in scripture - thus when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended with it - including the fourth command.


Deu 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, thatthe LORD gave me the two tables of stone, eventhe tables of the covenant.


Invariably some people will claim that the new covenant is simply the old covenant restated, but that argument won’t hold water.


Scripture says the new covenant is a BETTER covenant, founded on BETTER PROMISES - not the old one recycled.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, which was established upon better promises.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

The old covenant was deliberately faulty - it was harsh, and a yoke of bondage, to contrast trying to earn righteousness by works of the law (with its 613 rules that had to be kept down to the last jot and tittle), with righteousness by grace through faith in the new covenant.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When I preach what some call "Lucky Repentance" here, I preach not that we have to repent of every sin individually; but I preach that repentance is a change in direction...a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God.



That is a lie....the-more I point out the Depravity Of your “ Lucky Repentance” perverted “Gospel” , the more you change it....how will you change it next week? What you are saying now is not even CLOSE to what you were saying only a few months ago.....You were wrong and can’t admit it , and you are still wrong , proven by your “ Forgiveness Of Sin due to your Law-Keeping abilities”..... you are simply a mess with a brain full of Religious Mush....

 

[justbyfaith]

Since that’s the only reason the law was given or kept, my statement stands.

No, the commandments of the LORD are kept because of love for Jesus Christ (John 14:15)...not only to justify one's self. If a man is already justified through faith in Christ, his keeping of the law is not an attempt at justification but an outpouring of love that he has towards the Lord over having redeemed him.

If you keep any part of it, you must keep all of it.

That cannot be true; because there is no law that will condemn a man who bears the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23); and therefore those who bear the fruit of the Spirit become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom.

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

If I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).

So, the fact that I do not murder does not necessarily mean that I will be utterly condemned if I lust after a woman in my heart, thus committing adultery on my wife. There is forgiveness in the blood of Christ.

If you follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion, I must break all of the commandments consistently or else I will not be forgiven. Because if I obey any of them at any point, I am required to obey all of them or else I am condemned.

Most assuredly I say to you, God is not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness (Psalms 5:4).

The reason the Decalogue (Ten Commands) are no longer in effect, but have ended, is found in 2 Corinthians chapter three, wherein we find that the Ten Commands are: the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION, that has been done away - which is contrasted with the new covenant (testament) of the spirit, that gives LIFE.

You have misunderstood that passage and have not taken into account the rest of holy scripture.

For the New Covenant has within it the concept that the law is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10; Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written andengraven in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation beglory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY wasglorious, much more that which remaineth isglorious.

The ministration of righteousness has to do with our placing our faith in Jesus Christ; by which we obtain the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:14). When we have the Holy Spirit we bear the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

So, there is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

If I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4)...that is the ministry of righteousness.

The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation, and has been done away, is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.

When we come under the ministry of the Holy Spirit we begin to be obedient to those laws whose penalty was death by stoning and not because of the penalty; which has been done away for those who have placed their faith in Christ. Because the Holy Spirit dwells in my heart and through the Holy Spirit the love of God (Romans 5:5), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect,

That is simply untrue.

As concerning condemnation, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and have been delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

As concerning obedience, we are "under the law to Christ" (1 Corinthians 9:21)...the law of the LORD has been written on the hearts and in the minds of every New Covenant believer (Hebrews 8:8-10; Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

Imagine you were doing a ride along with a police officer, and you see that he ignores traffic law violations: speeding, running red lights, reckless driving, drunk driving, etc.


During the conversation you have with the officer, he says, "yes, I believe in the traffic laws. I keep those laws, myself - I just don't enforce them".

In the kingdom, no one is any longer a police officer but everyone is a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom; and therefore there is no need for a police force.

Sabbath day keepers, and Ten Commandment keepers are saying, those commands are still in effect and we keep them, but we don't enforce the law, as is required BY the law.

Now there is an enforcing of the law for believers if they disobey it. It happens through preaching; as the Holy Spirit convicts people of sin and righteousness and judgment.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, which was established upon better promises.


And says if the old one was faultless, there’d be no need for a new covenant.


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

The old covenant was deliberately faulty - it was harsh, and a yoke of bondage, to contrast trying to earn righteousness by works of the law (with its 613 rules that had to be kept down to the last jot and tittle), with righteousness by grace through faith in the new covenant.

The law of the LORD is given as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24)...it shows men that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20) and has the power to convert the soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

It is also perfect according to the last verse that I referenced.

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

So, the law of the LORD and the Old Covenant are not one and the same entity...

As a matter of fact, if you continue reading where you left off, you will find that the law is written on the hearts and in the minds of those who believe in the New Covenant...

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[justbyfaith]

When I preach what some call "Lucky Repentance" here, I preach not that we have to repent of every sin individually; but I preach that repentance is a change in direction...a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God.



That is a lie....the-more I point out the Depravity Of your “ Lucky Repentance” perverted “Gospel” , the more you change it....how will you change it next week? What you are saying now is not even CLOSE to what you were saying only a few months ago.....You were wrong and can’t admit it , and you are still wrong , proven by your “ Forgiveness Of Sin due to your Law-Keeping abilities”..... you are simply a mess with a brain full of Religious Mush....

I do have much of the Bible memorized and it is true that I have not created a perfect systematic theology in all the verses that run through my mind...however, I am getting closer to a theology that never contradicts itself.

You are also persecuting me over things that I have said in the past by taking those words out of context and trying to make them sound like they are not biblical.

Such a thing can only produce a one-sided theology that caters to a single side of the coin of what is taught by the Bible. People have accused the Bible of contradicting itself and there are certain Bible teachers who, in preaching two sides of the same coin, appear to contradict themselves or may, in preaching a specific truth, appear to contradict what we know to be sound doctrine.

However, upon closer examination, it will be found that the Bible teaches the truth that is being presented and that we will find greater insight into the whole of the Bible's teaching when we begin to reconcile those truths that appear to contradict each other.

I hope that you will remember that it was the child of the flesh who persecuted the child of promise...and it is also that way today (Galatians 4:29).

Most certainly, those who walk after the Spirit rather than after the flesh (who are children of promise), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

And if I am preaching something different than what I was preaching a few months ago, is that not by definition admitting that what I preached a few months ago was wrong?

But if there is a reconciliation between what I used to preach and what I am preaching now, then there is a continuity in what I am preaching.

 

[TheslightestID]

Salvation is not about our performance, not of any kind. Salvation is of the Lord.

Looks to me like you are wrong. The following says we must do good and not do evil or be condemned to hell, and contrary to what you claim, that is all about performance. Or are you stating Jesus is incorrect?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

 

[TheslightestID]

No, the commandments of the LORD are kept because of love for Jesus Christ (John 14:15)...not only to justify one's self. If a man is already justified through faith in Christ, his keeping of the law is not an attempt at justification but an outpouring of love that he has towards the Lord over having redeemed him.

No, the commandments are kept as part of the "faith" you speak of as well. Faith without works is dead.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That scripture is the bible teaching against what you claim, because even back then there were heresies being taught, heresies that reduduced the term "faith" to little more than an empty word.

 

[mailmandan]

Looks to me like you are wrong. The following says we must do good and not do evil or be condemned to hell, and contrary to what you claim, that is all about performance. Or are you stating Jesus is incorrect?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Believers must do good or will do good? The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis or means of obtaining salvation, but is the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as we also in Romans 2:6-10. Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil. We must not confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..

Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"

Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"

 

[TheslightestID]

Believers must do good or will do good? The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis or means of obtaining salvation, but is the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.

Yet that is not the explanation Jesus gave us. Your explanation is of men, but Jesus not only put it differently, but was very clear.

 

[TheslightestID]

What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..

And he who believes, has faith, real faith, or faith that includes the action of works, not dead faith.

 

[mailmandan]

Yet that is not the explanation Jesus gave us. Your explanation is of men, but Jesus not only put it differently, but was very clear.

Jesus was very clear as I already explained in post #354.

 

[mailmandan]

And he who believes, has faith, real faith, or faith that includes the action of works, not dead faith.

So faith "includes" works? So what you are basically saying is that faith "is" works. I figured you taught salvation by works, which explains a lot.

 

[TheslightestID]

Jesus was very clear as I already explained in post #354.

Yet , Jesus's expkanation is still not tne same as yours...he states clearly we must do good...period.

 

[mailmandan]

No, the commandments are kept as part of the "faith" you speak of as well. Faith without works is dead.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That scripture is the bible teaching against what you claim, because even back then there were heresies being taught, heresies that reduduced the term "faith" to little more than an empty word.

So faith "is" keeping the commandments? How do you define "keep"? Faith without works is dead does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims (key word) they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.