But you said his laws are to be followed.
So you're not following them either because of
A) They aren't binding (But I thought they were to be followed?)
B) You disobey the law and will go to hell
Which is it?
A Simple Question To The Forum About Getting Into The Kingdom Of God.
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But you said his laws are to be followed.
So you're not following them either because of
A) They aren't binding (But I thought they were to be followed?)
B) You disobey the law and will go to hell
Which is it?
Because Christ said the following,
"....He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
He also told us this,
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
If I were sinless, then maybe I would cast the first stone at all those mentioned above, but I am a sinner, a breaker of Gods laws, just as all of us. Jesus tells us to leave the sinners be. Let them dwell with the righteous and He will punish them at HIs coming.
This is why I do not follow these laws. I really do not know any other way to answer you! I've answered your question several times already.
Ecc, you can quote scripture all you want, but if you don't take the time or effort to put it into context, you're just wasting your time. You love to grasp any verse that has the word "law" or "commandment" in it and try to claim it backs your religious views. And make no mistake...your views are pure religion, not Christianity.
The New testament says all sorts of things, as I previously posted (I haven't missed the fact that you still haven't managed to comment on them...you haven't even tried to twist them to you ideas, which is commendable, since you just can't), but lets have a look at one passages that helps sum up Jesus' New Covenant thoughts in regards to the 10 commandments.
[Fulfilling the Law Through Love]
[8] Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. [9] For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(Romans 13:8-10 ESV)
How can you possibly miss that? Jesus, and then Paul writing this doesn't dismiss the 10 Commandments, but tells us that by truly loving God and others, we are fulfilling them. It's not to be a check list...we just need to love.
You asked a few posts ago:
Again, you seem to be under the HUGE misconception that it's something WE do to get into God's Kingdom. It's not, the only chance anyone ever has to see heaven, is Jesus. As I don't seem able to explain it to you so you understand it, please read a partial sermon below...it covers it spot on. The passage being preached on is Philippians 3.
"Religion believes that there is a list that if you obey, you’re a good person. If you don’t, you’re a bad person. The only difference is various people have various list.
Hard religion has a very specified list. Soft religion has a very general list, but on it is everything from don’t smoke, don’t drink, listen to certain kinds of music, read your Bible everyday, otherwise you’re going to hell – over to be nice to people, vote, recycle, obey the Golden Rule and just try to be treating of others as you would like to be treated. But both are still the same in that they’re trying to decide what goes on our resume. When we stand before God, or perhaps when we stand before our own conscience or we stand before others that we respect, whomever we consider ourselves to be standing before for judgment, we want to have something on our resume.
What Paul says is that religion is rubbish, because no matter whether it be soft or hard religion, it’s still an effort to include things on the list that you have done to make yourself a good person and acceptable in God’s sight.
Paul says, “We don’t need any of that. We need Jesus.” That he used to think that way until he understood Jesus. And he explains this in Chapter 3, verses 9 through 11 of Philippians. Here’s how Paul says it. He says, “I may gain Christ and be found in him,” – that’s in Jesus – “not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,” – from doing the things on the list – “but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith, that I may know him” – that’s Jesus – “and the power of his resurrection,” – he’s alive today – “and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.”
What Paul is saying is this – I’ll back up in scripture and tell you that you and I were created by a righteous God – Holy and pure and blameless and good – and we were made in his image and likeness to live righteous lives, and we have sinned, and the Bible says that now none of us is righteousness. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that furthermore, we still however want to be righteous and we want righteousness and that desire is a good desire. It’s good to desire righteousness, but the question is, how will you pursue it? Will you pursue it through religion or Jesus?
Paul says, “I used to pursue it through religion, and that’s rubbish, and then I learned about Jesus, and Jesus is everything.” That’s what he’s saying – that religious people are dogs and religion is rubbish, but Jesus is everything.
Now in saying this, what he is doing is he is telling us how to be righteous. And almost every religion exists to tell you how to be righteous. I’ll give you some examples. Buddhism says to be righteous, you cease all desires. Confucianism says to be righteous, you pursue education, reflection and live a moral life. Hinduism says that you detach yourself from your separated ego and live in unity with the divine. Judaism says that you obey God’s law. That’s what Paul was articulating. The New Age says that you should see yourself as connected to the whole of divine oneness and live in concert with all of creation. Taoism says you should align yourself with the Tao and literally go with the flow. And Islamism says that you should live a moral life. Do good deeds. You will stand before Allah in the end, and if your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds and Allah so wills it, then you will be declared righteous.
Every single religious answer, both soft and hard, tells us that on our resume for our righteousness should be what we have done. And Paul says, “No, all we need is the name of Jesus Christ. We need to trust in who he is. We need to trust in what he has done. He is the source and means of our righteousness.”
This is amazing. This changes everything. This is why to some degree I’ve become very frustrated when people love Christianity in the category of world religions. What we believe is very different, because in our understanding, we don’t save ourselves. God saves us. We are not righteous until Jesus makes us righteous. This is what we mean when we use words like “grace” – that ours is grace and theirs is works; that ours is gift righteousness and theirs is works righteousness and self-righteousness and religious righteousness, which Paul says is rubbish.
You and I are sinners. We’re unrighteous and unholy, and we all die because sin results in death and we stand before God for judgment. And the question is, how could God declare us righteous and allow us into his Eternal Kingdom of Heaven, because we are unrighteous? God wouldn’t be just if he said that we were righteous. He would cease to be good and holy if he just lied and said that we were good people. And in explaining how this issue of justification occurs, Paul says that God is able to both maintain his justice, along with his holiness and righteousness and goodness, and love us and forgive us and declare us to be righteous, and allow us entrance into his Eternal Kingdom.
See this is the problem with religion. I’ll tell you the real problem with both hard and soft religion. It does not believe that God demands perfection. God demands perfection. Jesus says that we are to be perfect because God is perfect. We are not perfect. And when we stand before God as condemned sinners, there is no way we could plead our goodness and our works and our morality, because anything seemingly good we’ve done is just what we were supposed to do anyways, and you don’t get credit for that which was expected. So how can we as sinners, unrighteous, stand before a holy, righteous and just God and be declared righteous and given permission to live forever with him?
Paul says it this way in verse 9. “To be found in him,” – that is in Jesus – “not having a righteousness of my own” – not having any religion. He says that “I don’t intend to stand before God and talk about my religion and my righteousness and show him my resume and all the good things I did and all the bad things that I did not do.”
“Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law,” – obeying all the rules – “because I’ve already broken them and I’m a sinner” – “but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.” Paul says that in trusting in Jesus, having faith in Jesus, believing in Jesus completely, not adding to Jesus – baptism, speaking in tongues – any other thing that may even be good, but is not necessary for salvation and pollutes the finished work and complete work of Jesus. Paul is saying, “I trust Jesus, and when I stand before God the Father at the end of the day when I am judged at the end of time, I will tell God the Father,” Paul is saying, “I’m a sinner. I’m unrighteous. I broke your laws. I did what I was not supposed to do. I did not do what I was supposed to do. Furthermore, even in my heart, I was self-righteous and proud. My motives were mixed. I obeyed not even the spirit of the law, but Jesus lived a perfect life in my place. He’s God come from heaven and he did live the life that I have not lived – the perfect life. He died the death that I should have died and he paid the penalty for all my sin and he rose for my salvation. And so Heavenly Father, my answer is Jesus. My answer is Jesus. I have two words on my resume, Father, Jesus Christ. That’s all. That’s all.”
This is a sermon by Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church.
I truly hope you read this and take it to heart Ecc, because you are following religion, not Jesus. You are trying to put your own works in place of Jesus works. God will see all your deeds as filthy....only Jesus can save you, and you spend your time diminishing His work.
So these laws are not binding, correct?
Binding being, will we be judged and condemned to hell for following or not following them?
I don't need a slew of verses taken out of context thrown at me. I want your simple answer, unless that's too hard for you.
"and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment." before God...
Do you know what the literal translation is? Menstrual garments. Bloody tampons, if you will.
If you think that's disgusting and nasty: Isaiah made his point. Our righteous deeds, if they do not stem from faith in Christ, are like giving God a used bloody tampon- and being proud of it. How foolish.
Why is it you never comment on the OTHER verse Jesus gave us?
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Jesus tells us to leave the sinners be. Let them dwell with the righteous and He will punish them at HIs coming.
This is also an option Jesus left us with....and yet you continue to try to force me to say why it is I am not killing homosexuals, adulterers and the like.
Christ took it out of our hands and said just leave it up to him.
But the one thing you continue to overlook is the fact that there will still be LAWBREAKERS upon His return. Who do you think the tares are?
How can Jesus punish anyone if there are no laws to be broken, no obligation of laws to be kept?
Just as Paul said,
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
This ONE verse let's us know Paul speaks of MORE than one law in his writings.
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You have a nasty habit of being unable to address questions.
Are the laws binding, yes-or no?
Yes: They are binding. If you don't follow them, it's sin, and will net you a ticket to hell.
No: They are not binding. If you don't follow them, it's not sin.
Are the laws binding, yes-or no?
Yes: They are binding. If you don't follow them, it's sin, and will net you a ticket to hell.
No: They are not binding. If you don't follow them, it's not sin.
You are being funny right?
Yes! God's laws are binding! If you continue to break them your fate will be the lake of fire!
Now if you could go back and give me just ONE "yes or no" answer to the many questions I have presented that would be great!!
Will you "Man-up"?
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Yes tex....you must be young. Do your parents know you are on their computer?
God's word says that it is NOT mandatory that we kill all those that break His laws!
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Jesus tells us to leave the sinners be. Let them dwell with the righteous and He will punish them at His coming.
If you cannot see that or understand that in the above verse, you are truly...."As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
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Really? God's word actually says you do:
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
Unless, of course, this command has been made obsolete.
How can the commandment be obsolete? The verse, in and of itself, tells us the commandment still stands! The very fact that the Lord is going to have the tares burned let's us know laws were broken and the punishment for continuing to break those laws is the second death.
Jesus only said that, for now, to let those that continue to break His law (tares), grow up with the righteous (wheat) and He will render judgement when He returns!
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Like this:
Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
[sup]13 [/sup]In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.
Does this command say you must put them to death or does it say it's optional, Eccl?
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
Yeah, I do find it nasty...just gross. And that's why its such a great way to describe how God views the works of men!!
I have heard this before, and I must confess, it does pop into my head every time Ecc tries to convince his 'audience' that all his wonderful following of various (he's not even consistant) laws is going to better his chances of getting into heaven. Like you said...bloody tampon.
I had a dog once that puked, and then ate it again. Gag worthy. I don't think God will have a problem with His gag reflex, but basically that's what the bible tells us of men and their efforts. Gag worthy. Without Jesus, we're all lost and facing a God who cannot stand our unclean efforts. Only when viewed through the perfect life of Christ will we hear "well done good and faithful servant."
Get it right....... God's KINGDOM......NOT heaven! No one is going to heaven.....the throne of God!
Didn't you know that?
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Answer the question.
Does this command say you must put them to death or does it say it's optional, Eccl?
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
Does this command say you must put them to death or does it say it's optional, Eccl?
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
It's not me saying it is optional, Jesus tells us it is optional, tex!
Matt.13
[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Jesus tells us while gathering the tares, we may make a mistake and gather some wheat also, and that would be wrong!
So what is HIs advice, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
This part of judgement Christ has taken out of our hands. He tells us He will separate the good from the evil at His coming!
Like I said.....if you do not understand what this means, go ask your parents to explain it to you, then return!
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If the one that gave the command, says it's an option, then it's an option!
Jesus is the one that gave it to man in the first place!
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