Bible alone

[CadyandZoe]

Sorry

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Contrary to Catholic teaching, which teaches that the church is built on Peter, Jesus actually meant to say that his church would be built on Peter's confession, i.e. "You are the Christ."

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Of course, but such men are gone now.

 

[theefaith]

So yeah Paul disagrees and directs you to God's Word to find out what God says about His Son. Absolutely shocking and flabberghasting that that could be where God puts His Words to us--in His Word--yet, there we have it. I guess we just have to receive it as an article of faith since it makes no sense that God's Word would be in His Word. Just by chance, do you know what "faith" is? It's when God says something and you believe it--hence the phrase "faith toward God" Hebrews 6.

Christ and his church are one
And Christ says the apostles are to teach the people matt 28:19

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[GracePeace]

Christ and his church are one
And Christ says the apostles are to teach the people matt 28:19

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All right, so go to the Scriptures to become wise in the faith. See ya.

 

[theefaith]

Contrary to Catholic teaching, which teaches that the church is built on Peter, Jesus actually meant to say that his church would be built on Peter's confession, i.e. "You are the Christ."

Of course, but such men are gone now.

apostles must remain until the end matt 28:19-20
Behold I am with you (the apostles) till the end
Christ and His church are one acts 9:4

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

peters confession?

Christ founded the church on Peter!
And the apostles!
Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

You CANNOT give the keys (authority) to a confession but to a person! Peter
Vs 19 unto thee (Peter) thou shalt bind (Peter) thou shalt loose (Peter)

Only the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors and those members of Christ by faith and baptism United with them, the communion of the saints
Jn 16:10 matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23
Jn 10:16

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The office of apostle that has the three fold office, to teach: to govern the church: and to sanctify by the sacraments or sacred oaths (promises) of the father! Acts 2:38-39 with ez 36:25-27 Heb 8:6

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

Jn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jn 9:5
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Matt 5:14
Ye (the apostles/ the church) are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(There is only one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!) matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 eph 2:20

Only Peter and the apostles and their successors have the teaching authority of Christ with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit! Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Fathers have care of their children, spiritual fathers care for our souls!

Pope, papa, father, yes spiritual father!

Isa 22 father

Christ is the head of the church!
Peter is appointed by Christ as the head of the church on earth!
Supreme pastor and teacher of the faithful!

 

[CadyandZoe]

apostles must remain until the end matt 28:19-20

Why? The Apostles did their work in the first century.

There are no successors. As I pointed out, any successors would need to meet the qualifications found in Acts 1. No man alive today can meet those qualifications. End of story.

 

[theefaith]

Why? The Apostles did their work in the first century.

There are no successors. As I pointed out, any successors would need to meet the qualifications found in Acts 1. No man alive today can meet those qualifications. End of story.

teach the nations, still needs to be done
The us was not a nation for 1800 yrs

disciples still need the grace of baptism to be saved Mk 16:16

the successors are bishops not required to meet that standard act 1:20

If something is not possible then it is not required

 

[CadyandZoe]

teach the nations, still needs to be done

We have the scriptures.

the successors are bishops not required to meet that standard act 1:20

You were talking about Apostles. Dude, take Zoe's advice. Give in to reality.

 

[theefaith]

We have the scriptures.
You were talking about Apostles. Dude, take Zoe's advice. Give in to reality.

without the church and the apostles authority you do not know what is and what is not scripture

the church and apostles have authority from Christ to teach Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4

the church existed before the New Testament
The church wrote and cannonized the Bible and the church alone has authority to teach and interpret scripture

divine revelation must be revealed and taught by the apostles without any error
Jn 16:13 Jn 8:32

the eunuch had scripture the spirit sent an apostle to teach Him

and Philip preached Jesus
How did the eunuch know about and desire baptism?

 

[theefaith]

Does not get any more real that Christ is king and has all authority Matt 28:18-20


What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!


Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

Authority of the Apostles

Jesus Christ even shares His role as just judge with the apostles!

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


Must be taught by the holy church by the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Acts 2:42

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

 

[Wrangler]

So what do you do for worship on Saturday?

Why does it matter what I do on the Sabbath?

 

[ScottA]

Where does the Bible teach the doctrine of the Bible alone?

where does the Bible say what is and what is not scripture!

Where does the Bible say read for yourself and make your own doctrine or your own salvation?

The scriptures are not under the providence of men, but under God alone. Only in him can one convey or relay the Word of God, which is "foolishness" without the Spirit.
Point being: The Bible is not "alone."

 

[theefaith]

The scriptures are not under the providence of men, but under God alone. Only in him can one convey or relay the Word of God, which is "foolishness" without the Spirit.
Point being: The Bible is not "alone."

the church wrote the New Testament???

 

[theefaith]

Bible alone!

Where does the Bible say there is any authority to write scripture?

The word of God is not limited to scripture!


Christ is supreme!
Christ possesses all authority!

Scripture is not supreme, alone, or sufficient!

Christ and His church He founded on Peter, the apostles, and their successors are one!

Christ shares His teaching authority with His apostles!

The church must teach the truth!

Only Christ has authority to found a church, only Christ builds His one true church!

The apostles have the authority of Christ over all the church and all the kingdoms of the world!

Revealed by scripture? No

Luke 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness.

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The eunuch had scripture, but the spirit sent an angel to teach Him, to teach faith and baptism! Acts 8

Revealed!

Truth must be revealed by God and taught by the apostles thru holy mother church!

 

[ScottA]

Mother?

 

[theefaith]

Mother?

holy mother church
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[ScottA]

holy mother church
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Sorry, I should have asked "Why through the church?"

Peter did not hear through mother church, but from the Father. That, rather, is the way of Christ's church.

 

[theefaith]

Sorry, I should have asked "Why through the church?"

Peter did not hear through mother church, but from the Father. That, rather, is the way of Christ's church.

peter was an apostle
They received the faith and must teach us
Matt 28:19 acts 2:42 Lk 1:4 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[ScottA]

peter was an apostle
They received the faith and must teach us
Matt 28:19 acts 2:42 Lk 1:4 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Are you intending to claim that no one except the apostles has ever received the truth of God from the Holy Spirit?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well if he tells me to live by Enoch's prophecy, but doesn't himself, he's a hypocrite and his hypocrisy is enshrined in your perfect little book for all to see!

Again, this isn't about following the book, but only about following Enoch's prophecy, which was contained in the book. Authors sometimes imitated an author so as to present both what the author said and what they wanted to say in his name, as well. Jude wasn't telling Christians to follow the book of Enoch. Rather, he was saying what was traditionally attributable to Enoch, whether in the book of Enoch or not.

I'd like to make that point crystal clear. Not the book, but Enoch.

Enoch's prophecy could've been contained not just in the book of Enoch but elsewhere as well. The book of Enoch may have just made apparent what was already apparent elsewhere, that Enoch foretold a coming day of judgment. That we should follow, but not the book of Enoch. Following a *book* was *not* being said!

 

[GracePeace]

Again, this isn't about following the book, but only about following Enoch's prophecy, which was contained in the book. Authors sometimes imitated an author so as to present both what the author said and what they wanted to say in his name, as well. Jude wasn't telling Christians to follow the book of Enoch. Rather, he was saying what was traditionally attributable to Enoch, whether in the book of Enoch or not.

I'd like to make that point crystal clear. Not the book, but Enoch.

Enoch's prophecy could've been contained not just in the book of Enoch but elsewhere as well. The book of Enoch may have just made apparent what was already apparent elsewhere, that Enoch foretold a coming day of judgment. That we should follow, but not the book of Enoch. Following a *book* was *not* being said!

Actually, I was the one who made that point "crystal clear" not you.

Yes, so there is source material that isn't in the Bible that the writers considered authoritative and lived by and told others to live by--you want to minimize that point, again, so that you can follow men who were obviously already in error by exalting Mary, and that's your choice.

Basically : "I GOTTA preserve the Bible."
No real reason--even against reason--but OK. I guess.