new version of OSAS?

[BloodBought 1953]

Lol, God as my witness.......

You are so predictable. You are supremely arrogant. Beyond remedy, I think. I knew you'd take credit if I decided to leave, lol.

Lol....ultimately, God will get the Credit....I’d like to think I played a small part....I don't really care—-JUST LEAVE already! How long are you going to “ milk” this? Other Springboards are eager to take your place ....

 

[michaelvpardo]

In your post 547
Your words are: Sanctification is a life long process, just as salvation is, but it is the work of God and it is impossible for God to fail. Paul expressed his confidence as such:

But it is us living in the right relationship with God..
So on one hand....you say it's the work of God.....but here you fail to mention any part we play?

Right relationship with God is established when we believe the gospel and receive the Spirit of adoption.
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” Roman's 8:15
We receive His Spirit by faith and through the asking, but even that is His work. When Peter laid the foundation of the church with his great confession, what did Jesus say?
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17
We can't take credit for our confession of faith in the person of Christ, that confession issues from God's witness on Earth, the Holy Spirit.
Good works issue from God through us as the scripture says, they don't contribute to our salvation, but are a result of our salvation. If God doesn't do them, they aren't good.
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phillipians 2:12-13
The verse plainly says that God gives us the will to do His good pleasure and does His good pleasure through us. We can't take credit for our "good works." God does all the work, so God gets all the glory, we're really just tabernacles for His Spirit if we indeed know Him, but the tabernacle has 2 occupants, His Spirit and our spirit. We can do His will in obedience or do our will. When our will aligns with His will, we can ask Him for anything and receive His desire. That's what it means to be one with Christ as He is One with the Father. We receive the presence of God not just with us, but in us and find unity through the Holy Spirit.
That's the troubling thing with this website. There's very little unity, which shouldn't be the case if we all drank from the same spiritual well. I can tell by reading the posts of some that they have the Witness in them, but others seem devoid of His Spirit. However, we're not supposed to judge before the time of judgment and it takes time to mature. It also takes time to renew our mind through the word. We're born into a world that is carnal and consequently with a carnal mind. We grow in the world, we perceive as the world perceives, we think as the world thinks. The world tries to conform us to its character, but we need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Even that is the work of the Holy Spirit and through His word. All we can do is cooperate or rebel and grieve Him. However, even our cooperation is His work because He works in us to will and to do for His good pleasure. We're obviously not automatons, but God is zealous for His word and His testimony. God is deeply committed to us, primarily because He's committed to Himself.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself. 2 Timothy 2:11-13
These verses are things which the carnal mind can't comprehend, but can be received by the spiritual mind. The epistles weren't written for the world, but for the church.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Supremely arrogant.

I no longer consider you a saved brother.

...and that is your Misfortune......

If “ you”, a Perverter of the Gospel, think that ol’ BB is Unsaved, that just gives me more certainty that I “ am” Saved......

I think you are a Believer That has “ fallen from Grace”—— no different from ALL of the Catholics and 90% of the Protestants............you are a victim of a lifetime of hearing, “ why, of course Jesus Saves! B U T !” It’s “ Jesus Saves.Period.”———“Nothing But The Blood”

You never conjured up the Faith to “ enter into His Rest”..... just like the Hebrews in the Sinai Dessert

I think you are a Saved man, you just live- out a Faith Walk That is beggarly......one that lacks the Total Assurance and Joy that I experience daily..... I have lived both sides .....working by Adding to the Gospel vs. Resting in the Finished Work Of The Cross ....I can compare the two.....you can’t ....you criticize the True Walk Of Faith that escapes you.....Your Faith is weak, you don’t understand why , and you lack the Total Assuredness That God so much wants His Children to Believe In....

Having said all of this....I am certain you pass Pauls Test....you Believe Jesus was the Son Of God and you Believe in His Resurrection....that's enough to get you in....You are a Saved man....Rejoice in That and pray that God give you the Wisdom and the Faith to REST in what He did for you at the Cross....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Is that why you are not saved?

I am a saved, born again Christian.

A saved born again person cannot stop believing, that's an impossibility; because he is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

The saved, Spirit sealed Galatians stopped believing in the sufficiency of Christ for justification and went back to observance of the old covenant Festival cycle and to a different gospel. And some of the saved Corinthians stopped believing in a risen Christ. And we know it was saved people who did that because Paul said their faith has been in vain if it's true that Christ has not risen from the dead. They started believing in a different Christ, a different gospel than Paul had preached to them and which they received by which they were saved.

But if you want to believe you'll never stop believing, that's fine. I'm not going to take that away from you. You may very well never stop believing. But to project your experience onto other believers would be a mistake. Not all believers are as mature as you might be. Jesus gave various reasons why some people do not retain the word of God in them. Which, according to the Parable of the Sower, is likely to happen in those in whom the word of God is not deeply entrenched.

Just as there is no such a thing as a "carnal" Christian!

Paul talks about 'carnal' Christians here.......

I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 1 Corinthians 3:1-4​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And that is a picture of one who either did not really have understanding of who Jesus is, or of one who have not truly made up his mind regarding Jesus Christ.

Paul said the Galatians were known by God, but they did not know him. They were saved, but they were immature. And that is the kind of people Jesus talked about when he referred to the word being cast out of a believer's heart. He didn't talk about that possibility in the kind of believer in whom the word is firmly rooted and bearing fruit. And I think that illustrates the importance of believers moving on to maturity in a doing of the word and away from the immaturity of just having knowledge about the gospel, as joyful as that may be.

Therefore, let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity... Hebrews 6:1​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did they stop believing in Jesus as the Messiah? If in your view, they did, please show in scriptures that they did.

They deserted the Holy Spirit and turned to a different gospel.....

6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! Galatians 1:6-8​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, be careful not to misuse said passage.

Tong
R3412

I'm not misusing it. The Holy Spirit makes a person different than what they were without His presence. You should know this from your own experience with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If they were born again and were saved, and stopped believing as you contend, what happened to them in so doing?

Paul told them they have no inheritance. Because sons born of the old covenant, the slave woman, do not share in the inheritance with the sons born of the new covenant, the free woman.....

“Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Galatians 4:30​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did they die when they did, and were saved no longer, or what?

Paul said they made Jesus of no effect to them in justification. People who aren't justified in Christ aren't going to be saved when Jesus comes back. But just the fact that God sent Paul back to them to bring them back to Christ shows us God did not forsake them instantly. But, surely, if they rejected Paul's plea to come back they died severed from Christ and won't enter into the inheritance when Jesus comes back. Contrary to the new Osas teaching, unbelievers don't get to enter into the kingdom at the end of the age.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did they stop believing in Jesus as the Messiah? If in your view, they did, please show in scriptures that they did.

They deserted the Holy Spirit and turned to a different gospel.....

6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! Galatians 1:6-8​

Did they stop believing in Jesus as the Messiah?

Tong
R3416

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So then, those who did not continue were not really believers but unbelievers, right?

Tong
R3410

Some never really believed, some did but stopped. Like the Galatians, and the Corinthians.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did they stop believing in Jesus as the Messiah?

Tong
R3416

Yes, like the Corinthians they were led astray to a different Jesus. In their case, a Jesus who did not/could not justify a person apart from their works, the way Abraham was justified. I know there is a virulent distaste for the OT in the church today but Paul uses the offspring of Sarah and the offspring of Hagar to illustrate the fate of these two distinct children of Abraham. Only one of them is in line for the inheritance, even though they are children of Abraham. The inheritance simply doesn't go to the child born in the line of Hagar (the old covenant).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

May I ask, do you work out your salvation?

By what Paul means by that, yes, I do work out my salvation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Right relationship with God is established when we believe the gospel and receive the Spirit of adoption.
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” Roman's 8:15
We receive His Spirit by faith and through the asking, but even that is His work. When Peter laid the foundation of the church with his great confession, what did Jesus say?
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17
We can't take credit for our confession of faith in the person of Christ, that confession issues from God's witness on Earth, the Holy Spirit.
Good works issue from God through us as the scripture says, they don't contribute to our salvation, but are a result of our salvation. If God doesn't do them, they aren't good.
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phillipians 2:12-13
The verse plainly says that God gives us the will to do His good pleasure and does His good pleasure through us. We can't take credit for our "good works." God does all the work, so God gets all the glory, we're really just tabernacles for His Spirit if we indeed know Him, but the tabernacle has 2 occupants, His Spirit and our spirit. We can do His will in obedience or do our will. When our will aligns with His will, we can ask Him for anything and receive His desire. That's what it means to be one with Christ as He is One with the Father. We receive the presence of God not just with us, but in us and find unity through the Holy Spirit.
That's the troubling thing with this website. There's very little unity, which shouldn't be the case if we all drank from the same spiritual well. I can tell by reading the posts of some that they have the Witness in them, but others seem devoid of His Spirit. However, we're not supposed to judge before the time of judgment and it takes time to mature. It also takes time to renew our mind through the word. We're born into a world that is carnal and consequently with a carnal mind. We grow in the world, we perceive as the world perceives, we think as the world thinks. The world tries to conform us to its character, but we need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Even that is the work of the Holy Spirit and through His word. All we can do is cooperate or rebel and grieve Him. However, even our cooperation is His work because He works in us to will and to do for His good pleasure. We're obviously not automatons, but God is zealous for His word and His testimony. God is deeply committed to us, primarily because He's committed to Himself.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself. 2 Timothy 2:11-13
These verses are things which the carnal mind can't comprehend, but can be received by the spiritual mind. The epistles weren't written for the world, but for the church.

This is so excellent!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Does doing good works or doing God’s commandments in the likes of those found in the law of Moses get you saved or gets you to remain saved, since you were already saved?

The works of the law of Moses do not make me righteous before God and eligible for the inheritance, nor do they keep me righteous and eligible for the inheritance. That happens solely through faith in God's promise of a Son and how He inherits the blessing on our behalf.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Again, be careful not to misuse said passage.

I'm not misusing it. The Holy Spirit makes a person different than what they were without His presence. You should know this from your own experience with the Holy Spirit.

<<<The Holy Spirit makes a person different than what they were without His presence.>>>
Perhaps, but we should not interpret the reference to God changing Saul's heart to mean that at this time Saul experienced personal salvation or being born from above.

Tong
R3417

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If they were born again and were saved, and stopped believing as you contend, what happened to them in so doing?

Paul told them they have no inheritance. Because sons born of the old covenant, the slave woman, do not share in the inheritance with the sons born of the new covenant, the free woman.....

“Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Galatians 4:30​

Paul is saying that to those who desire to be under the law, for them to consider.

Let me again ask, if they were born again and were saved, and stopped believing as you contend, what happened to them in so doing? Did they become unsaved? Did they revert back to their previous state of being dead and ceased to have been born from above, ceased to be born of God? Did the Holy Spirit leave them and not dwell in them anymore?

Tong
R3418

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did they die when they did, and were saved no longer, or what?

Paul said they made Jesus of no effect to them in justification. People who aren't justified in Christ aren't going to be saved when Jesus comes back. But just the fact that God sent Paul back to them to bring them back to Christ shows us God did not forsake them instantly. But, surely, if they rejected Paul's plea to come back they died severed from Christ and won't enter into the inheritance when Jesus comes back. Contrary to the new Osas teaching, unbelievers don't get to enter into the kingdom at the end of the age.

So, if you contend they were true believers and were truly born from above, then they were justified by Christ then. And when as you contend they fell away, Christ took back His justification of them? And so, you are suggesting that they were made as they were before they were born from above, that is, dead. Is that right? So, that would mean they would have to be born from above yet again if they were to be saved, right? Well,…

Tong
R3419

 

[Corlove13]

I've said that repeatedly but you're answering something in your own mind, not my statements. Obviously the topic troubles you as it does all holders to works oriented notions of salvation.
How much is enough?

I do not believe one earns salvation....
And not all works are to earn salvation.

And I do not mind being called works orientated...Because I know...I was not quickened together with Christ and reconciled to God based on my works to earn..but based on His work...His death that paid the penalty for sins.

But now that you been made alive, how are you saved by His life?.....

It's about having a clear conscience before God right? How do you suppose this Happens? If something is bothering you, you correct it. JESU

Right relationship with God is established when we believe the gospel and receive the Spirit of adoption.
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” Roman's 8:15
We receive His Spirit by faith and through the asking, but even that is His work. When Peter laid the foundation of the church with his great confession, what did Jesus say?
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 16:17
We can't take credit for our confession of faith in the person of Christ, that confession issues from God's witness on Earth, the Holy Spirit.
Good works issue from God through us as the scripture says, they don't contribute to our salvation, but are a result of our salvation. If God doesn't do them, they aren't good.
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phillipians 2:12-13
The verse plainly says that God gives us the will to do His good pleasure and does His good pleasure through us. We can't take credit for our "good works." God does all the work, so God gets all the glory, we're really just tabernacles for His Spirit if we indeed know Him, but the tabernacle has 2 occupants, His Spirit and our spirit. We can do His will in obedience or do our will. When our will aligns with His will, we can ask Him for anything and receive His desire. That's what it means to be one with Christ as He is One with the Father. We receive the presence of God not just with us, but in us and find unity through the Holy Spirit.
That's the troubling thing with this website. There's very little unity, which shouldn't be the case if we all drank from the same spiritual well. I can tell by reading the posts of some that they have the Witness in them, but others seem devoid of His Spirit. However, we're not supposed to judge before the time of judgment and it takes time to mature. It also takes time to renew our mind through the word. We're born into a world that is carnal and consequently with a carnal mind. We grow in the world, we perceive as the world perceives, we think as the world thinks. The world tries to conform us to its character, but we need to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. Even that is the work of the Holy Spirit and through His word. All we can do is cooperate or rebel and grieve Him. However, even our cooperation is His work because He works in us to will and to do for His good pleasure. We're obviously not automatons, but God is zealous for His word and His testimony. God is deeply committed to us, primarily because He's committed to Himself.

11 This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
12 If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
13 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself. 2 Timothy 2:11-13
These verses are things which the carnal mind can't comprehend, but can be received by the spiritual mind. The epistles weren't written for the world, but for the church.

Let me do one of your numbers: point is because you were taught Osas as your Gospel
and not To trust Jesus for who he is...you can not come to see that you are an active participant in Sanctification. Living in right relationship with is diff from receiving a status. I am speaking about how we relate to God. [Jesus did what was pleasing to His Father, he obeyed His every word]

Otherwise we would not be told to make are call and elect sure.....OR to work out our salvation.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[mailmandan]

So, if you contend they were true believers and were truly born from above, then they were justified by Christ then. And when as you contend they fell away, Christ took back His justification of them? And so, you are suggesting that they were made as they were before they were born from above, that is, dead. Is that right? So, that would mean they would have to be born from above yet again if they were to be saved, right? Well,…

Tong
R3419

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.