new version of OSAS?

[marks]

endure to the end is Jesus giving hope to those in great tribulation if they just hold out to the end their physical lives will be saved. Those words have nothing to do with eternal salvation

Citing that passage in relation to justification and rebirth demonstrate to me a poor understanding of what justification and rebirth are, as well as a failure to understand the context of the passage.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Where is this in scripture>

Fact is , JESUS said if a man continues NOT IN ME , HE is cast out .

John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Of course John 15 has these words, the branch that does not live in me is cast out from being a branch. But those who say such things as that the reborn may be cast out, they are assuming this "branch that does not live in me" actually was living in Jesus, but then no longer lived in Him.

Quite the assumption to make! And especially when it goes against so much plainly stated Scripture.

Much love!

 

[Corlove13]

You are mistaken, I was not taught OSAS as my gospel because I was raised and confirmed a Catholic (at the age of 13). I never even heard the gospel in a Roman Catholic church, just readings from the gospels and sermons about how we should behave. I was "saved" through the ministry of a faithful coworker who patiently and over many weeks answered my questions about scripture that my carnal mind was unable to reconcile to other scripture (the supposed biblical contradictions). He was able to reconcile every one of those verses to the body of scripture. Then one day I ran into a street preacher who shared the gospel with me and prayed with me. Though I prayed, I did not receive the Lord because I still didn't understand the simplicity of the gospel or the significance of Isaiah chapter 53 (though I knew from my childhood and my very first reading of scripture that the passage was about our Lord. At that time I was so young and ignorant of biblical history that I thought the entire bible was written at one time and by the same author. I loved the book of Isaiah and I was always anxious to read more about Jesus. My concept of our guarantee of salvation came from scripture reading and with the confirmation of sound biblical teachers on Christian radio (and they certainly all aren't sound in their doctrine, but the witness in me found agreement with some as He is able to recognize Himself). I read and reread scripture cover to cover for three years and wore out my cheap copy of a king James bible in the process (the pages separated from the binder and the book literally fell apart.) Since then I've read many translations, the New King James being my favorite. After those 3 years of just reading (and seeing Jesus revealed in the old Testament) I came under conviction that I should be attending a fellowship, so my former wife and I started visiting local churches and attending worship services. During that period of time the Lord kept pointing out a small Baptist church just a few blocks from our house, so I decided to attend a service there and we stayed for a number of years. We both were baptized and made our confession before the congregation at that church though we never became members, and eventually moved on to another congregation in South Belmar where there was more room and opportunity for involvement in ministry, which had become our earnest desire.
I didn't stop reading scripture after 3 years but continued with daily reading and focused more on studying individual books (I'd had a dream that my copy of the JPS Tanaach had water poured over it and that the books became separated which I believed came from the Lord, and I ministered to a number of Jews from the Tanaach and their own HafTorah. I even was granted the opportunity to pray with a lovely old Jewish lady, by the name of Dorothy Cohen, who was a resident at the nursing home where my wife was volunteering. She was a concentration camp survivor but held no bitterness toward God and was delighted to hear the Jewish scriptures and have them explained (Jewish tradition in some places in Europe didn't allow women to sit under the teaching of rabbis and what was explained to them only came from their husbands or fathers.)
Sorry to get so far off topic, but I value personal testimony far more than the opinions of students of the scripture. Our understanding of scripture changes over time because the Holy Spirit teaches us it's meaning over time and applies it to our lives. There's only one true interpretation of scripture but diverse applications of it made by the Holy Spirit to our lives. It isn't possible for the Holy Spirit to misuse scripture, but it's His prerogative to apply it to us in any manner that He chooses in order to sanctify us. That's where many people get in trouble. They simply confuse applications to their lives with the original interpretation and why wouldn't someone do that when it's God using His word to convict of sin and convince us of truth. I'll confess that in my study my mind arrived at many Cultic notions that I'd heard from various cults from passages that I didn't yet understand, but God was faithful to show me the error of my carnal thinking and to dismiss such ideas as error.
I trust what He teaches me, it's my own derived conclusions that deserve scrutiny, but I only offer those as opinion or speculation, and only when they remain in agreement with scripture and the doctrine which leads to salvation.

You arrived at your conclusion from radio...and then joined a Baptist church...
Both must have taught osas...

Most people do not interpretate on a blank slate. Many I am sure filter through Some doctrine they have heard.

Maybe an example...is learning in Math

15 people got the right answer because they used the right foundation...

And the other 10 started with the wrong foundation and got the wrong answer.

When there is a pattern...of people saying we do nothing and God does it all....

Then usually the problem has started with..the foundation.

When one sees Justification as the totality of Salvation.......

Many then seem to be blinded by the role that His resurrection plays...

They say well He died for my sins and I am going to heaven...yet leave Him in the grave.
As though His resurrected life has nothing to do with salvation.

But He saved us so that He may destroy the works of the devil in this life we now live.[by His Life]
That we live soberly and righteous in this present world. Therefore in the psalms you see that Just as Christ abided under the wings of His father we will too if we obey Jesus's teachings.....The protection and blessings are not outside of His grace. That's why He was on Israel about returning to Him.....

 

[mailmandan]

Tereo- to attend to carefully, obey

Are you implying that you perfectly obey all of God‘s Commandments 100% of the time?

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

 

[Corlove13]

Of course John 15 has these words, the branch that does not live in me is cast out from being a branch. But those who say such things as that the reborn may be cast out, they are assuming this "branch that does not live in me" actually was living in Jesus, but then no longer lived in Him.

Quite the assumption to make! And especially when it goes against so much plainly stated Scripture.

Much love!

Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

If I remain in my house....I am already in my house........if they remain in Jesus (me) they are in Him.....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You realize you've agreed to not call into questions someone's salvation if they are calling themself Christian.

I do it for you, fair's fair.

Much love!

Not until they give me a compelling reason not to consider them a fellow born again believer. When you see the savage wolf hiding behind sheep's clothing and they don't respond according to the Spirit when you call them out for sinning against you, Jesus says to consider that person an unbeliever.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I predict it's just to come back under a different name and try again.

Much love!

No, I've shared with another poster that I want to devote my time to another interest I have.

 

[Corlove13]

Are you implying that you perfectly obey all of God‘s Commandments 100% of the time?

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

I am saying that "Tereo" means carefully attend to, obey.....as I looked it up too....

But sense you asked, you do know that love fullfills the Law...?

And you do know:

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. JOHN 14:23[/QUOTE]

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That’s right, works can not make one righteous in God’s sight. So there is no works that the Christian does that will make him righteous in God’s sight nor is there any work that he does that will keep himself righteous in God’s sight.

Tong
R3424

Yes. But just because good works don't earn you a place in the kingdom of righteousness that doesn't mean evil works won't keep you out. For the believing Christian his evil works do not keep him out because they are instantly covered and atoned for the moment they commit them. But they will not retain that privilege if they stop believing in the blood of Christ to do that for them and they fall back to another gospel, or no gospel at all. Of course, you're now going to say that's impossible. Real believers can't and won't do that. Hey, I'm fine if you want to believe that. At least you know that Christians have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. And I think you agree that because they believe they will not live in sin either. These are both tenants of the original Osas teaching from the 1500's, which many in the church have now rejected in favor of the new Osas. The only real fundamental disagreement I have with the original Osas is the belief that real Christians are not capable of rejecting the gospel by which they were saved. The Galatians did. And so did some of the Corinthians.

 

[marks]

Not until they give me a compelling reason not to consider them a fellow born again believer.

Bucking against authority?

You agreed when you joined the site.

Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Do you think this should devolve even lower?

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, I've shared with another poster that I want to devote my time to another interest I have.

I'm figuring you feel like you've run through your cycle, so, give it a rest, and then come back in a different persona. Hopefully you will choose a more cheesy avatar!

Much love!

 

[Corlove13]

Yes. But just because good works don't earn you a place in the kingdom of righteousness that doesn't mean evil works won't keep you out. For the believing Christian his evil works do not keep him out because they are instantly covered and atoned for the moment they commit them. But they will not retain that privilege if they stop believing in the blood of Christ to do that for them and they fall back to another gospel, or no gospel at all. Of course, you're now going to say that's impossible. Real believers can't and won't do that. Hey, I'm fine if you want to believe that. At least you know that Christians have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. And I think you agree that because they believe they will not live in sin either. These are both tenants of the original Osas teaching from the 1500's, which many in the church have now rejected in favor of the new Osas. The only real fundamental disagreement I have with the original Osas is the belief that real Christians are not capable of going back to unbelief. The Galatians did.

HEY FB...I have some questions would you explain: How is one after being born believe the blood cleanses?..are you saying that it is automatically applied without repentance? And are you saying if they repented that the blood is immediately applied? Please help me understand your stance here...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

endure to the end is Jesus giving hope to those in great tribulation if they just hold out to the end their physical lives will be saved. Those words have nothing to do with eternal salvation

We know that's not true from Revelation 2:10-11. Do you see why?

10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm figuring you feel like you've run through your cycle, so, give it a rest, and then come back in a different persona. Hopefully you will choose a more cheesy avatar!

Much love!

Ah, yes. The real you shining through, again, lol.
No, I'm not coming back under a different name in this forum. There's no need to do that. I'll just stop talking to you instead. That's what I've decided. But I may close my account if I go with through with some personal plans I have had for myself for quite a while now. And, yes, you may consider that the answer to your righteous prayers to God to remove me from the forum, lol.

 

[marks]

Jesus says to consider that person an unbeliever.

Really? Where?

Or did He say to let them be to you as a gentile or publican?

Now, Peter had some rather severe words for false teachers.

2 Peter 2:12 LITV
12) But these as unreasoning natural beasts, having been born for capture and corruption, speaking evil in that of which they are ignorant, they shall utterly perish in their corruption,

Much love!

 

[marks]

We know that's not true from Revelation 2:10-11. Do you see why?

10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.​

Different statement, different context, does not give license to re-imagine the Olivette Discourse, where Jesus told the Jews it would be the worst time ever, and everyone would die it He didn't put a stop to it. And He told them, if they endure to the end, they would be saved, as He will come and put a stop to it, and rescue those who survive.

He was not making a soteriological statement of rebirth in the new covenant. He was giving a prophetic narrative to Jews regarding the end of the age.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

I am saying that "Tereo" means carefully attend to, obey.....as I looked it up too....

You still did not answer my question. Are you implying that means sinless, perfect obedience to all of God’s Commandments 100% of the time? Do you teach sinless perfection?

 

[michaelvpardo]

You arrived at your conclusion from radio...and then joined a Baptist church...
Both must have taught osas...

Most people do not interpretate on a blank slate. Many I am sure filter through Some doctrine they have heard.

Maybe an example...is learning in Math

15 people got the right answer because they used the right foundation...

And the other 10 started with the wrong foundation and got the wrong answer.

When there is a pattern...of people saying we do nothing and God does it all....

Then usually the problem has started with..the foundation.

When one sees Justification as the totality of Salvation.......

Many then seem to be blinded by the role that His resurrection plays...

They say well He died for my sins and I am going to heaven...yet leave Him in the grave.
As though His resurrected life has nothing to do with salvation.

But He saved us so that He may destroy the works of the devil in this life we now live.[by His Life]
That we live soberly and righteous in this present world. Therefore in the psalms you see that Just as Christ abided under the wings of His father we will too if we obey Jesus's teachings.....The protection and blessings are not outside of His grace. That's why He was on Israel about returning to Him.....

No, I arrived at truth, taught by the Spirit of truth, and only confirmed my understanding by comparison to others alive in the Spirit. You can do the same. Just believe in your heart that Jesus is the only begotten son of God, that His sacrifice was sufficient propitiation for all sin, and that He rose again from the dead, sealing His personal testimony to ascend into heaven, and you're covered. Then if you ask the Father for His Spirit, without doubting His promises, you will certainly receive Him and be taught by Him. If you want proof texts I'm always happy to share scripture with those willing to receive it (but sadly many aren't but only want to be justified in their error.)
As an addendum, I began reading scripture around the time of my first communion in the RCC, possibly a few years before it because I wanted to know and to be like Jesus. That's the foundation of my faith, not RCC dogma, but scripture. However, I encountered all the same issues in understanding scripture by all the religious wannabes because I was not born again through the gospel until I was 39 years old and until that time it was impossible for me to grasp spiritual meaning, because my spirit was not yet renewed in Him and my mind was entirely carnal. Anyone can learn to parrot established doctrines or church dogma taught to them, but only those born of His Spirit can be taught by God, and we are.

 

[marks]

Ah, yes. The real you shining through, again, lol.

I'm just giving my observations, again, after much time spent on these forums.

As for the rest, I've already seen too much blatant misrepresentation of others from you, there is no reason for me to think you would not misrepresent yourself. It seems to be your style. Just my opinion, of course!

Much love!

 

[Corlove13]

You still did not answer my question. Are you implying that means sinless, perfect obedience to all of God’s Commandments 100% of the time? Do you teach sinless perfection?

I mentioned nothing about sinless perfection
But obeying Jesus teachings, what u you practice is who we are becoming.