Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[GracePeace]

No. What I'm saying is that such considerations shouldn't even be on the discussion table. They are ridiculous, and you knew that but you brought it up anyway as some sort of lame throw away accusation against Sabbath keepers because you have nothing more intelligent to add to the conversation. Harping on about the law of Moses is merely a constant straw man that acts as a distraction. The real issue is one you are avoiding. The Commandments of God.

Interesting : Paul denies circumcision (contained in the Law) is a Commandment of God 1 Corinthians 7:19.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Are you saying we should obey Moses or not? Don't just pick the parts you like.

You are right that if a person wants to follow Moses he has to follow every single law, right down to the last jot and tittle. Just one infraction under Moses brings condemnation and death. Just one angry or lustful thought will be a breach of the law, resulting in death. I think that following Moses' law would be too greater task to successfully achieve. Therefore I think you would be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think you can comply with every single law without fault.

So, if you can't (if you are honest with yourself), wouldn't you be making yourself a hypocrite if you are requiring others to do what is impossible for yourself?

I'm not being disrespectful to you, but just wanting you to think realistically. So, if we can't follow Moses' law perfectly, what do you think would be the alternative?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Then we agree. I'm not under the Law of Moses, period.

Good to hear. I should have read this post instead of the previous one!

 

[kcnalp]

You are right that if a person wants to follow Moses he has to follow every single law, right down to the last jot and tittle. Just one infraction under Moses brings condemnation and death. Just one angry or lustful thought will be a breach of the law, resulting in death. I think that following Moses' law would be too greater task to successfully achieve. Therefore I think you would be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land if you think you can comply with every single law without fault.

So, if you can't (if you are honest with yourself), wouldn't you be making yourself a hypocrite if you are requiring others to do what is impossible for yourself?

I'm not being disrespectful to you, but just wanting you to think realistically.

The New Covenant that Jesus provided with His Blood, obviously.

Galatians 3:24-25 (NKJV)
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I'm sure most will immediately disagree, and rightly so. Jesus' fulfilling of the Spirit of the Law in us does not permit us to break the Letter of the Law.

Yes, the Letter of the Law is a killer, but to whom? To him who attempts to obtain salvation through observing it - which is impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV and Luke 17:10 KJV. But, to the Christian who keeps the Spirit of the Law forbidding lust - and by that will automatically be keeping the Letter of the Law forbidding the act of adultery - to him, it is not a killer, but a "Law of Liberty".

So, if the fact that Jesus is our truth, reward, and faithfulness does not permit us to lie, steal, or fornicate...why do so many claim that since Jesus is their spiritual rest, they may freely break the fourth commandment? To the contrary, if Jesus is indeed our inward Spiritual rest, we will demonstrate that by outward obedience to the fourth commandment, according to Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV. The only rest God ever took was literal rest from His work of creation on the seventh day; the only day upon which He rested, blessed it, and sanctified it. If He is indeed our spiritual rest, we ought to evidence that by literally resting on the seventh day Sabbath day. Need I remind anyone, it's not the fourth "suggestion", it's the Fourth Commandment, right or wrong?

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
Col. 2:16, 17
Besides, do we really know what day it is? Is this the Sabbath? It could be that the calendars - ALL OF THEM ARE OFF. The Hebrews added an extra 30 day month to their calendar, making adjustments. So what they were keeping as a Sabbath, was shifted two days later when they added Adar I. ??
We are not even sure of Christ's Bday. Some say Sept 11, 3 BCE. Some say it was in October. But we replaced a pagan day to celebrate it - could be that day _ on Dec. 25. Can we be sure the exact dates of the Resurrection? The Sabbath was created for man, a day of rest. Man wasn't created for the Sabbath.

Spiritually we are in Christ, in His rest, in eternity, where hours, days and years are insignificant!

 

[Phoneman777]

The Ten are part of the Mosaic Law.

It's not ok. I've read the NT.

What if I could show you that they existed BEFORE the Mosaic Law and that God Himself said they would exist for all eternity?

A) Would you change your mind?

B) Or, would you still insist they were done away with at the Cross?

 

[Phoneman777]

John Calvin referred to the people who thought they could continue in willful sin, such as lying, stealing, and fornication, as fanatics.

Today, it seems the more you advocate for it, the more you are deemed qualified in church leadership.

 

[Phoneman777]

The Sabbath was an Old Covenant Jewish institution which was cancelled and made obsolete when the Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom.

That is what many are led to believe, but the truth is that the seventh day blessed Sabbath rest goes all the way back to the beginning.

The law that men rest on the Sabbath existed BEFORE the Old Covenant was even proposed, let alone ratified.

And, in the New Heaven and Earth, we're going to be keeping it.

So, the idea that for some reason God suspended its observance for the period between the two Advents is really a figment of evangelical imagination.

 

[Phoneman777]

Where does the New Testament say that? I don't see you quoting anything out of Paul's letters concerning it.

Hebrews 12:3-4 Peshitta version correctly translates the verse to read, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath..."

Not to mention, Jesus expected Christians to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath day, as well as many times the Sabbath was mentioned in NT in connection with Christian worship.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ah I see mr perfect is going to try to spread his heresy in this chatroom now,

wonderfully, guess he could not get enough in the other one

 

[Phoneman777]

1. Yeah, the same Book says the Law was a shadow of things to come Hebrews 10:1--it's obviously talking about what the Sabbath "type" corresponds to--but as far as the keeping of the literal day, Paul says he worries for people who observe "days" Galatians 4:20. We're not under Law Romans 6:14.

2. Still no answer to my argument I see

The Sabbath wasn't a "Type" in the OT in the sense that it would one day meet its "AntiType" and disappear...it was a MEMORIAL - to creation.

 

[Phoneman777]

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
Col. 2:16, 17
Besides, do we really know what day it is? Is this the Sabbath? It could be that the calendars - ALL OF THEM ARE OFF. The Hebrews added an extra 30 day month to their calendar, making adjustments. So what they were keeping as a Sabbath, was shifted two days later when they added Adar I. ??
We are not even sure of Christ's Bday. Some say Sept 11, 3 BCE. Some say it was in October. But we replaced a pagan day to celebrate it - could be that day _ on Dec. 25. Can we be sure the exact dates of the Resurrection? The Sabbath was created for man, a day of rest. Man wasn't created for the Sabbath.

Spiritually we are in Christ, in His rest, in eternity, where hours, days and years are insignificant!

Everything in that verse refers to the YEARLY sabbaths, the Feast Days of the Mosaic Law which ended at the Cross...there's nothing in that list that has to do with the Ten Commandments which will exist for all eternity, according to God Himself.


We know which day the Sabbath is : the 7th.

If they got is messed up, it was straightened out by the time of Abraham...and if it got messed up again, it was straightened out by Jesus...and the Naval Observatory said a few decades ago that the "weekly cycle has not been disrupted" going all the way back to at least then..

Would God really give us a commandment - one that existed BEFORE anyone even got to Mount Sinai - and then have us not know how or when to obey it?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hebrews 12:3-4 Peshitta version correctly translates the verse to read, "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath..."

Not to mention, Jesus expected Christians to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath day, as well as many times the Sabbath was mentioned in NT in connection with Christian worship.

Hebrews 12:3-4 says nothing of the sort! It says:
3 For consider him that hath endured such gainsaying of sinners against himself, that ye wax not weary, fainting in your souls.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:

Maybe you need to read your Bible a little more carefully so that you don't end up quoting the wrong reference. I think you've shot yourself in the foot here!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Everything in that verse refers to the YEARLY sabbaths, the Feast Days of the Mosaic Law which ended at the Cross...there's nothing in that list that has to do with the Ten Commandments which will exist for all eternity, according to God Himself.

It was sent to the Christians in Colassia (and the Gentile world) after the cross.

If they got is messed up, it was straightened out by the time of Abraham...and if it got messed up again, it was straightened out by Jesus...and the Naval Observatory said a few decades ago that the "weekly cycle has not been disrupted" going all the way back to at least then..

I would think that since Christ it has been correct. Why aren't they sure about the year of His death
I'm okay with 32 AD, but I'm not sure.

Would God really give us a commandment - one that existed BEFORE anyone even got to Mount Sinai - and then have us not know how or when to obey it?

Was the Sabbath commandment repeated in the New Testament. I thoufhr that was the only one not repeated.
Jesus reminded them that He was Lord of the Sabbath and many would not find His rest. He is our Sabbath rest. We rest in Him.

 

[kcnalp]

If OSAS is true then we can do ANYTHING and never lose our salvation.

 

[kcnalp]

It was sent to the Christians in Colassia (and the Gentile world) after the cross.

I would think that since Christ it has been correct. Why aren't they sure about the year of His death
I'm okay with 32 AD, but I'm not sure.


Was the Sabbath commandment repeated in the New Testament. I thoufhr that was the only one not repeated.
Jesus reminded them that He was Lord of the Sabbath and many would not find His rest. He is our Sabbath rest. We rest in Him.

There were more than one Sabbath command. Execute those who work on weekends.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hebrews 12:3-4 says nothing of the sort! It says:
3 For consider him that hath endured such gainsaying of sinners against himself, that ye wax not weary, fainting in your souls.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:

Maybe you need to read your Bible a little more carefully so that you don't end up quoting the wrong reference. I think you've shot yourself in the foot here!

Ooops, my bad....I meant Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV.

 

[Phoneman777]

There were more than one Sabbath command. Execute those who work on weekends.

If we were still under a theocracy, none of us would be left.

You'd think that those who break the Sabbath would be appreciative that we aren't under it, but no...it makes them all the more emboldened to defy God until the day comes when they'll beg for the opportunity to obey, but will get no such thing, just like the Antediluvians banged on the Ark door in vain.

 

[Phoneman777]

It was sent to the Christians in Colassia (and the Gentile world) after the cross.

I would think that since Christ it has been correct. Why aren't they sure about the year of His death
I'm okay with 32 AD, but I'm not sure.


Was the Sabbath commandment repeated in the New Testament. I thoufhr that was the only one not repeated.
Jesus reminded them that He was Lord of the Sabbath and many would not find His rest. He is our Sabbath rest. We rest in Him.

It was repeated in Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV. Look up the Peshatta Version's rendering of that verse.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello: @Phoneman777
I believe that I can do whatever I personally want to.

We all still will mess up though do we continue to live in sin however is the question?

According to Romans 6:1; Paul ask a very important question which his response to it is God Forbid!; The important message is about how our heart is renewed, and our mind is renewed, and we are given a spirit to live by ; dying to our former ways - hate, greed, lust, - though they are attached to us; we die to those thoughts and actions; and we can not say the thoughts completely go away cause we still have a mind/will/emotion and live in a material world though by if we walk by the spirit we will have ; love, joy, peace, patience, forgiveness, mercy because of the spirit of Christ/holy spirit with-in us living.