Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[kcnalp]

What about those who preach the law of God and obeys God.

Which "law of God" would that be?

And when are you going to stop avoiding questions and actually discuss the topic instead of throwing in deviations and detours?

I'm under the NT. How about you?

 

[kcnalp]

This isn't an answer to my post. It's a rabbit trail that means nothing.

See above.

 

[Brakelite]

Which "law of God" would that be?

I'm under the NT. How about you?

KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

KJV Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

What Commandments do you suppose would be literally kept (like the above literal adultery theft, murder laws) if you loved God with all your heart, soul, and mind?

 

[Curtis]

Sabbath day keepers don’t actually keep the sabbath as required - the law that the sabbath command is part of, requires stoning sabbath breakers to death.

Also it’s forbidden to have any fires in your habitation on the sabbath - meaning no cooking, no hot water heater, and no furnace when it’s 20 below zero in the winter.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.


Not to mention that a burnt sacrifice is an integral part of each sabbath day observance, meaning sacrifice of animals are required.

Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

And yes, fires at the altar for a burnt offering were okay, it’s in the home/habitation/tent that fires on the sabbath are forbidden.

So sabbath keepers don’t really keep the sabbath properly

What was that you were saying about being obedient to the law?

 

[Paul Christensen]

I'm sure most will immediately disagree, and rightly so. Jesus' fulfilling of the Spirit of the Law in us does not permit us to break the Letter of the Law.

Yes, the Letter of the Law is a killer, but to whom? To him who attempts to obtain salvation through observing it - which is impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV and Luke 17:10 KJV. But, to the Christian who keeps the Spirit of the Law forbidding lust - and by that will automatically be keeping the Letter of the Law forbidding the act of adultery - to him, it is not a killer, but a "Law of Liberty".

So, if the fact that Jesus is our truth, reward, and faithfulness does not permit us to lie, steal, or fornicate...why do so many claim that since Jesus is their spiritual rest, they may freely break the fourth commandment? To the contrary, if Jesus is indeed our inward Spiritual rest, we will demonstrate that by outward obedience to the fourth commandment, according to Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV. The only rest God ever took was literal rest from His work of creation on the seventh day; the only day upon which He rested, blessed it, and sanctified it. If He is indeed our spiritual rest, we ought to evidence that by literally resting on the seventh day Sabbath day. Need I remind anyone, it's not the fourth "suggestion", it's the Fourth Commandment, right or wrong?

John Calvin referred to the people who thought they could continue in willful sin, such as lying, stealing, and fornication, as fanatics.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So, those who work on weekends are sinning?

No.
Because the Sabbath Law doesn't apply to New Covenant believers.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Depends on the kind of work a man does on the Sabbath - routine or emergency. If his ox in in a ditch or if a man's health is in need of medical attention, no. But, one thing is for sure: you never read of one instance where Jesus could be found in the carpenter shop on the Sabbath. If we're doing routine work that can be done on any of the other six days upon which we are commanded to work, then we're breaking the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was an Old Covenant Jewish institution which was cancelled and made obsolete when the Temple curtain was ripped from top to bottom.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You obey the Law of Moses or you just pick out parts you like?

I don't follow the Law of Moses at all. I follow Christ in whom the whole Law has been fulfilled. Christ has become my Law, written on my heart, administered by the Holy Spirit within me.

 

[Paul Christensen]

And that would include the Sabbath commands. You can't just pick the parts you like.

Exodus 35:2 (NKJV)
2 Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

If you are stuck in Old Covenant Law then you might need to examine yourself to make sure that you are really in Christ. It seems to me that anyone trying to follow the Law in order to please God, Christ is of no advantage to them.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Did you know that Sabbath keeping IS commanded in the New Testament along with every other of the Ten Commandments?

Where does the New Testament say that? I don't see you quoting anything out of Paul's letters concerning it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So how many of your loved ones have you executed?

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers,
7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth,
8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.
10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

The Law also says that children who are disobedient to their parents should also be stoned to death. Whoops! There may not be many children surviving in our churches if that Law was enacted in these days!

 

[Paul Christensen]

You got memo saying the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross, but the one I'm talking about says the Ten Commandments are eternal according to Psalms 111:7-8 KJV.

Let me know when it's going to be OK to steal, sleep with the neighbor's wife, worship Satan, etc.

For those who take Calvin seriously, which many of the OSAS people do, if they read Calvin they would see that Calvin says that people who think they can freely sin after receiving Christ, are fanatics and he would firmly correct such people.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I've never heard of anyone who preaches the Law of Moses who obeys Moses.

Anyone who tries to follow all the requirements of the Law will end up frustrated and discouraged, because there are so many commands, that one could end up chasing his tail for the rest of his life, and then find out at the judgment that he spent his life barking up the wrong tree!

 

[Brakelite]

Sabbath day keepers don’t actually keep the sabbath as required - the law that the sabbath command is part of, requires stoning sabbath breakers to death.

Mmmm. Interesting. So we don't as Christians worship the true God as we should either? That is keep the first two Commandments? Because the law of Moses says to stone those who suggest we serve other gods.

KJV Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

I could suggest that the gods of this modern world are as powerful and distracting as any of the old. Like sport. Rock music. Hollywood. Should we stone actors, athletes, and musicians in order to correctly worship God and be not found guilty of idolatry? Aren't they, and their fans who are sometimes in our own household, enticing is away from God into idolatry?

 

[GracePeace]

Yes it is...Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta:

"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath..."

Now do a word study on the chapter and discover that every place the word "rest" appears it's the Greek "Kataposis", BUT IN VERSE 9 THE WORD IS "SABBATISMOS" which refers to the weekly Sabbath and is why Lamsa correctly translated it as such.

So, now you know

1. Yeah, the same Book says the Law was a shadow of things to come Hebrews 10:1--it's obviously talking about what the Sabbath "type" corresponds to--but as far as the keeping of the literal day, Paul says he worries for people who observe "days" Galatians 4:20. We're not under Law Romans 6:14.

2. Still no answer to my argument I see

New Creation, New Rest, New Sabbath : no matter how the New Sabbath is defined, no one can be obligated to observe the old which is irrelevant. Did you never wonder why Sabbath-keeping was never commanded in the New Testament?

 

[kcnalp]

KJV Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

KJV Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

What Commandments do you suppose would be literally kept (like the above literal adultery theft, murder laws) if you loved God with all your heart, soul, and mind?

Please clarify. Are you saying we should obey Moses who said to kill your own family if they sin? Please don't sit on the fence.

 

[kcnalp]

No.
Because the Sabbath Law doesn't apply to New Covenant believers.

Are you saying we should obey Moses or not? Don't just pick the parts you like.

 

[kcnalp]

I don't follow the Law of Moses at all. I follow Christ in whom the whole Law has been fulfilled. Christ has become my Law, written on my heart, administered by the Holy Spirit within me.

Then we agree. I'm not under the Law of Moses, period.

 

[Brakelite]

Please clarify. Are you saying we should obey Moses who said to kill your own family if they sin? Please don't sit on the fence.

No. What I'm saying is that such considerations shouldn't even be on the discussion table. They are ridiculous, and you knew that but you brought it up anyway as some sort of lame throw away accusation against Sabbath keepers because you have nothing more intelligent to add to the conversation. Harping on about the law of Moses is merely a constant straw man that acts as a distraction. The real issue is one you are avoiding. The Commandments of God.

 

[kcnalp]

No. What I'm saying is that such considerations shouldn't even be on the discussion table. They are ridiculous, and you knew that but you brought it up anyway as some sort of lame throw away accusation against Sabbath keepers because you have nothing more intelligent to add to the conversation. Harping on about the law of Moses is merely a constant straw man that acts as a distraction. The real issue is one you are avoiding. The Commandments of God.

Have you read Galatians? It's a very serious matter. Anyone who says we are to obey Moses may be in serious trouble.

Galatians 3:10 (NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;