new version of OSAS?

[Addy]

@Ferris Bueller ... We are good you and I. We just don't agree on the issue of Salvation.
My sadness in these threads is that those who argue on the side of losing salvation... ALWAYS
throw in that Grace believers live in terrible states of sin and disobedience...AND that they promote
sinful living... This is cruel and incorrect.

I cannot help that the United Church has embraced homosexuality... that is not my fault... nor is it my belief.. therefore I would never attend such a church... I would stand against it...
I cannot help that Catholicism is perhaps the world's largest cult. I was brought up in it... and I walked away... I stand against it.
I cannot help that in North America... in the last 50 or so years... there has been a birthing of the most DECEPTIVE and EVIL doctrine
called Word of Faith/ Prosperity Gospel... So many Christians believe in these movements. I absolutely stand AGAINST them.

People are so worried about what other Christians are DOING.... that they have neglected to care for and GUARD their own hearts.

I live my life with absolute JOY... I know what sin is... I am not stupid... but I also know what a PROMISE is... and according to scripture... He is faithful to finish within me ( and all believers ) what He has begun.

The problem with this polar opposite view of salvation is that one is based on what HE HAS DONE... and the other is based on what we have done.... This is the heresy of it all...

I am FREE now... from all condemnation.... FRUIT comes as a NATURAL by-product of KNOWING GOD... and this seems to offend so many people.

I am not SIN focused like so many... I am GRACE focused... My heart is filled with AWE of who GOD IS... and I am thankful and grateful beyond words.

The bible is filled with promises to us... but false doctrine dares to try and remove them.

 

[Corlove13]

I just find it mind-boggling how these circular arguments go on and on... You have two camps of believers... Those who believe that salvation is secure and a done deal at the time of conversion... and those who believe you can lose your salvation at some point IF you decide to sin. This argument in my opinion is NOT one that ever gets resolution... It seems there are some who seem to feel COMFORT in thinking they play a part in KEEPING themselves saved. The same thing happens when Catholics try to defend their faith with protestants... NO ONE ever comes out with a change of mind or heart. Anyways... It is what it is.

It would not be mind boggling if people trusted Jesus and not the doctrine of osas.
IT IS Jesus Christ that is secure.

The Gospel Osas preach is Trust something Jesus did to secure heaven when they die.

They only see the word "saved" as meaning delivered to have heaven when they die.

They do not see that saved which means deliverence can be from more than 1 thing.

If you asked them where in the Bible does it say He saved us so that we can have heaven when we physically die....they cant show you...
Even that is part of it.

Because grace that brings salvation teaches us to deny worldly lust, that we would live soberly and righteously in this present world.

He came that we may have life...that begins now that never ends.
That is why I believe it is written that if you believe on Him you will never die.

We do communion not once but continually
We eat from Him to live. As the will of the Father was Jesus's meat. HE OBEYED THE FATHER AND THE FATHER WORKED IN HIM.

SO WE OBEY THE FATHER WHEN WE BELIEVE THE SON

BUT FOR ONE SECOND LETS LOOK AT THE TENSE OF BELIEVE.....IN THIS PASSAGE:


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live 49 even if he dies, 11:26 and the one who lives and believes in me will never die

5723 Tense - Present See 5774
Voice - Active See 5784
Mood - Participle See 5796
Count - 2549



So what is the Gospel Jesus and the disciples preached?

That the Kingdom was now available for anyone who put their Trust in Jesus.

So the disciples point out that it was Jesus after God's announcement that went about doing Miracles, Jesus who died for our sins,
It was Jesus who Rose from the dead for our justification, it was Jesus that was seen, it was Jesus at the right hand of the Father.

Therefore? TRUST JESUS....FOR in Him
You will find everything you need, including forgiveness.

It is Jesus that is the the beginning and end..
He is the author and finisher of our faith.

Not a doctrinal belief system of Osas.

So the reason they cannot see is because there beginning is Osas doctrine and their end is Osas Doctrine. So they filter all scriptues through that...and scared if they do not stick to that doctrine their not saved.

But it is not a OSAS doctrine to believe....rather one is to put their confidence in the living God, Jesus.



Not put there trust in something He did to secure heaven when they physically died.

Look at Ephesian 2 with me..this something I just seen.
And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near, 2:18 so that 33 through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
So here why are people given the Spirit?
Is it to have access to the father.

And why do we need access to the father...from scripture...this is up for discussion for anyone reading..please present scripture references.

 

[marks]

It's all very true. That's why we are told to keep believing. You can't have anything you don't believe in.

Of course, you sidestep the point of the post.

But no matter. You've said it's all true. So then you agree . . . those who are raised with Christ now, all of them, every last one, will be revealed with Him in glory when He is revealed, none lost, no, not one.

But I know that's not what you mean, making your statement disengenuous, and therefore false, deceiving. Dishonest.

Say it's not so!

Much love!

 

[Addy]

@Corlove13 ... I am a defender of GRACE... My faith is simple... and I don't usually argue with others about it.

The forums are filled with people's opinions about all kinds of things... I am not interested in arguing about what I or others believe.
It has been a habit of mine to "pop in " occasionally and make a few comments... @Ferris Bueller and I sometimes have brief conversations.

Other than that... I make my observations and then move on... This topic is one that I agonized over for almost 20 years... It is not something I now desire to dwell upon. I am SECURE in my salvation... and I believe the promises that were given me and every BELIEVER out there.

I have enough trouble keeping my own life in order... It's not my job to judge where OTHER believers are at.

So... please forgive me for not addressing the post you addressed me in. Have a lovely day.

 

[marks]

The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Romans 13:10​

I think you mean Romans 10:9.

We could talk about the semantical difference in saying, is summed up in, or, is the summation of, these are a little different, regardless, so long as you realize . . . Love outshines the Law like the sun to a Christmast tree light. The Law was given for the ungodly. If you hold to the Law, what are you saying for yourself?

Much love!

 

[marks]

People should not even be thinking that God's grace allows them to live a licentious life. What a farce.

This is the lie of OSAS and that is what Satan wants us to believe.
.

I think the real farce is attributing this to those who are secure in the promises of God.

Much love!

 

[Tetha]

@Corlove13 ... I am a defender of GRACE... My faith is simple... and I don't usually argue with others about it.

The forums are filled with people's opinions about all kinds of things... I am not interested in arguing about what I or others believe.
It has been a habit of mine to "pop in " occasionally and make a few comments... @Ferris Bueller and I sometimes have brief conversations.

Other than that... I make my observations and then move on... This topic is one that I agonized over for almost 20 years... It is not something I now desire to dwell upon. I am SECURE in my salvation... and I believe the promises that were given me and every BELIEVER out there.

I have enough trouble keeping my own life in order... It's not my job to judge where OTHER believers are at.

So... please forgive me for not addressing the post you addressed me in. Have a lovely day.

I have been reading the posts on this forum for a time now and this is the clearest to reality that I’ve read. Not dwelling there. That, speaks volumes. Awesome post.
Just an observer.

 

[marks]

This is how we uphold the Law [romans 3:31]

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

If the Law was made for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, why do you hold to it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have been reading the posts on this forum for a time now and this is the clearest to reality that I’ve read. Not dwelling there. That, speaks volumes. Awesome post.
Just an observer.

I thought so too!

Much love!

 

[Addy]

I suffered so much agony in my search for the REAL JESUS... and so... I feel that I owe it to the new believer to STRESS the Gospel of GRACE.
It is this gospel of GRACE that saves... heals and restores. It is a PURE GOSPEL. Welcome to the forums @Tetha.... and you are Canadian... We are growing in numbers.

 

[Corlove13]

@Addy Thank for response that was nice.
And I am fine with you not arguing or responding. BUT I TOO STRESS THE GOSPEL OF GRACE WHICH IS Jesus.

And I come on to respond to any post that I believe other readers are thinking too...So don't get offended if I respond...

You too have a blessed day!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Love outshines the Law like the sun to a Christmast tree light. The Law was given for the ungodly. If you hold to the Law, what are you saying for yourself?

Don't you even realize that 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the law? Leviticus 19:18

The person who upholds the law (Romans 3:31) is saying much about themselves! That they know and see God (1 John 3:6).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So then you agree . . . those who are raised with Christ now, all of them, every last one, will be revealed with Him in glory when He is revealed, none lost, no, not one.

Every believing person has the promise of being raised with Christ. Christ will lose no believing person. Not one. People who never trusted Christ, or who have stopped trusting in him are outside of the believing people to whom the promises of God were made.

 

[Tetha]

I suffered so much agony in my search for the REAL JESUS... and so... I feel that I owe it to the new believer to STRESS the Gospel of GRACE.
It is this gospel of GRACE that saves... heals and restores. It is a PURE GOSPEL. Welcome to the forums @Tetha.... and you are Canadian... We are growing in numbers.

Grace alone is a great place to dwell if Christ finds delight in you. Healing and restoration seems as guaranteed with the sanctified in the sanctifier. Thanks, I didn’t know we were a minority

 

[marks]

Every believing person has the promise of being raised with Christ. Christ will lose no believing person. Not one. People who never trusted Christ, or who have stopped trusting in him are outside of the believing people to whom the promises of God were made.

Once again . . .

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

If this . . . then that.

No additional conditions.

Now, go ahead and make your additions to the text so you can agree with your revised version, I imagine something like, "If ye then be risen with Christ, and if ye continue believing, seek those things . . ." (not the actual Word of God)

After all, how could you possibly agree with what God actually said?

You're words are, the promise of being raised with Christ. Here, God speaks in terms of that we have been raised with Christ. The same is true in Ephesians 2, that we've been raised with Him. Ditto in Romans 6.

You defer to the future what God says happens here and now. Would you like that for yourself? To be raised with Christ to new life now?

Much love!

 

[Corlove13]

I like how Willard in an interview states:

We are not only saved by grace, we are paralyzed by it. We have lost any coherent view of how spiritual growth occurs. Our churches are dominated by a consumer religion that has nothing to do with spiritual growth. But within those churches, there’s a huge number of people who are hungry for spiritual growth.

Dallas Willard ARTICLES

 

[marks]

Don't you even realize that 'love your neighbor as yourself' is the law? Leviticus 19:18

The person who upholds the law (Romans 3:31) is saying much about themselves! That they know and see God (1 John 3:6).

Sidestepping. We are both smarter than that, so why stoop down?

We have a new commandment from Christ, to love as He loved, which is not the Law of Moses, which was to love others as you love yourself. Now, we are to love others not as we love, even ourselves, but as He loves.

The Law, love others as you love yourself, that's the best the ungodly and sinner can do. Loving others as Jesus loves is something only the reborn can do.

Jesus is the Lord of the redeemed. The Law was made for the ungodly and sinners.

Do you not believe that is true?

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

I can't believe this heresy from hell is still trying to lead people down the path to hell!
Repent!

 

[Corlove13]

I like how Willard in an interview states:

We are not only saved by grace, we are paralyzed by it. We have lost any coherent view of how spiritual growth occurs. Our churches are dominated by a consumer religion that has nothing to do with spiritual growth. But within those churches, there’s a huge number of people who are hungry for spiritual growth.

Dallas Willard ARTICLES

In that same article He says:

We have been taught that grace means "you can do nothing to be saved." Such thinking has been extended to "you can do nothing to have spiritual growth." So spiritual transformation occurs, according to this thinking, in one of two ways – inspiration or information. Inspiration means that in one golden moment, one great experience, you will be transformed. I don’t want to criticize experience. I have had many wonderful experiences with God, but they don’t transform you. The other view, information, is the means whereby you pour truth into your head and suddenly you are transformed. Inspiration isn’t going to do it and information isn’t going to do it. The only way human character is transformed with grace is by discipline and activity.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Law was made for the ungodly and sinners.

Do you not believe that is true?

For what that actually means, yes, I believe that.