new version of OSAS?

[marks]

You see, BB, the two greatest commands are the summation of the law,

You would put the greatest commandment within the lessor commandments, as if it is only a summary of them?

Not that to love God and Love others is a summation of the other commandments. While Love fulfills the Law, it is also transcendant to the Law.

Maybe think of it this way. With the Law, you light a lightbulb. With Love, you light the sun. You wouldn't say that the sun shines with all the light of that light bulb. It will light all the lightbulb lights, and so much more. Love is that way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is called taking one meaning to imply that something else written in another place , does not count .

No, that's not true.

But one passage will NEVER negate another, nor change it's meaning into something that's not written there. So when we find what appear to be contradictions, such as this, we need to consider more deeply how it is that both are true, and not in conflict, without changing one.

So in this case, we are looking at passages such as, "you have become a partaker of Christ if you hold your confidence stedfast to the end", and, "now we are children of God . . . when we see Him we will be like Him".

You are suggesting that we take the seeming conditional view of the Hebrews verse, "if you hold your confidence" to mean that we can cease to be a partaker of Christ if we fail to maintain our confidence, and that we should bring this understanding to 1 John, and where we read "we will be life Him, for we will see Him as He is", we would need to change this read,

1 John 3:2 KJV
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know (Not "know", maybe, "desire") that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him (IF we continue in faith); for we shall see him as he is.

We would have to strip the promise of it's certainty.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

His promises to us are how we partake of His nature. He has given us all we need, but will we believe Him? I suggest to be careful of doctrines and ideas which lead us to change what we read into something it doesn't say.

So what about the Hebrews verse? It tells us that those who were made partakers continue. If you don't continue, you didn't become a partaker. That's the simplicity of the verse. You have become a partaker if you continue in your confidence. If you don't, you have not.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh my gosh, BB. You really don't read the Bible for yourself, lol.

45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:45-46
​

Do we have to visit all those scriptures again that tell us love for God expressed in love for others is the sign that you are born again and will enter into the kingdom at the end of the age?

Once again.....don’t go with what you have “ heard” in well- meaning but confused “ churches” —— the “SIGN” that you are “ Born Again” is this.....You must pass “PAUL’s “ Test.....not yours that “sounds”good, but us not precisely Biblical....

Paul said we PROVE that “ we are in the Faith” by how we answer this—— Can you say with your mouth , “Jesus is Lord?......It is impossible for one to say that and mean it without having the Holy Spirit in Him.....Sorry if that is not “ stringent” enough for all of you Legalist out there that insist on the Repentance Of All sins before you die and/or the avoidance of all Willful Sins in your life that the Blood can’t handle ....Paul could have added these things to his “ test”— he didn’t .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

, but the righteous to eternal life.


The “Righteous “ got That way because their Faith allowed GOD to IMPUTE them with it.....They Rested in the Gospel ......The Jesus That gave the illustration that you referred to here is the “SAME JESUS “ that said if you simply Believe that He died for your sins and rose from the dead—- you will be Saved.....this side of the Cross , that’s all you need to do to get and Stay Saved—

Too many say that “ Jesus died for my sins” and don’t really think for a second that it is true....they “ mouth” it without even thinking about it because it is something that they have heard all of their lives....just like they “ mouth” the song “ Nothing But The Blood” ——- if they thought about it for just one second and recognized its implications—- they would run out if “ smelling salts” faster than somebody could say “Lucky Repentance !”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You realize you are debating with a man , BB , whom i personally witnessed calling the law DUNG .
DO you realize how blasphemous that is . He dont . The law was NOT FROM THE MIND OF MOSES , GOD GAVE IT .
Most folks dont even know what a legalist truly is . Instead if we do as did paul and others
and warn against sin , and warn and remind that we must continue in Christ , they call THAT LEGALISM .
SO that just made JESUS and the apostles ALL legalists . Talk about a delusion .

Paul thought that the “ keeping of the Law” was the Way to be “ Righteous” and Merit Heaven.....THAT was the way to be Justified ,according to his previous Super- Legalistic Mind- set....of course, all of that changed once he met Jesus.....too many in here have Paul’s old problem—- they have yet to meet Jesus.....they STILL think that they can be “ good enough” and Earn Heaven....

It was all of the “ religious” stuff that Paul called “Dung”......all I can say to that is “AMEN!”

 

[Corlove13]

YEP.... and YEP.... Somehow... the promise of HIS FINISHED WORK seems to offend so many... and I can't figure out why... OUTRAGEOUS GRACE.... GRACE that is ALL about HIM... ALL from HIM.... ALL because of HIM... GRACE that saves the most wretched of sinners and invites the sick and dirty to FEAST at the BANQUET TABLE.... GRACE that COVERS ALL SIN.... It is a CRIME that this AMAZING GIFT gets insulted and mocked by those who THINK they have any part in "helping" and "adding to" the BLOOD of CHRIST.

Because what is Finished, we also need to walk in. GAL 5:16
We are reconciled by His death, that we might be saved by His life. [Roman's 5:10]

So one must see that God wants to save the Body, Soul, and Spirit. 1 Thes 5;23

On reconciliation [read EPHESIANS 2] and asked what was the unmerited favor(grace) that saved. And you will find that we were quicken to life where as we were dead in sin....a dead person cannot make themselves alive.

But now that one is Given His Spirit....that's not the end.....We are given His Spirit to "live" by it. Grow up. [2 Peter 3:18] And in that the transformation of the mind, our character changes that what we do and say match up with our new heart. Romans 12:2

This is how we uphold the Law [romans 3:31]

And in John 14 we find the outcome that
the father and son come and make their abode with us.

So in my Opinion as Abraham was told to walk before God Blameless and He would make a Covenant with him, (Gen 17:1)
we too having been given the Spirit Can walk by the Spirit and we will not fullfill the lust of the flesh. (GAL 5:16)

This above, to me is how we enter the Covenant blessings.
“Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham… . So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith” Gal 3;1-9


So basically we must walk in His finished work. For you know what you have when you walk in it because God has got your back. He is able to make you stand.

Think about what Abraham might have learned as he failed in the flesh? He may have learned that God had his back, God's love, which is why he could continue. It's from faith to faith. So when one exercises the little faith they have their faith grows.

Here might be a couple of examples.

A boy is given 100 dollars to do the neighbor's lawn up front. Yet 3 days go by and he has yet to begin. Can He begin to spend that money with a good conscience? No! 8 days later he still has not started to do the lawn. Can he spend it now with a good conscience? No!
But now after 2 weeks He begins to mow the Lawn He feels good because he can see what he can buy with the right conscience. And now on day 2 he is finished and knows that what He has received He reaps the benifits of. His conscience is assured.

The second analogy is:
A student receive his reward for running a race that he has yet to begin. As he start to run he can own up to what he received. Another words you know what you have when you live up to it..knowing that God made provisions if you were to fall to help you on your way.

Now,
ETERNAL LIFE IS TO KNOW THE FATHER AND THE SON....

Know comes from same word as Adam knew Eve. It is an intimate relationship.

So think about pressing unward toward the mark, Jesus Christ. When we live out His life that is given through relying and depending on Him.
Then will we not reap that same relationship He had with His father?

Jesus said He always did what was pleasing to the father John 8:29

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

So then we can uphold the Law through faith
It is a way we please God. Walking in His statutes
Romans 3:31
Duet 5:29
Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children forever!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Once again.....don’t go with what you have “ heard” in well- meaning but confused “ churches” —— the “SIGN” that you are “ Born Again” is this.....You must pass “PAUL’s “ Test.....not yours that “sounds”good, but us not precisely Biblical....

Paul said we PROVE that “ we are in the Faith” by how we answer this—— Can you say with your mouth , “Jesus is Lord?......It is impossible for one to say that and mean it without having the Holy Spirit in Him.....Sorry if that is not “ stringent” enough for all of you Legalist out there that insist on the Repentance Of All sins before you die and/or the avoidance of all Willful Sins in your life that the Blood can’t handle ....Paul could have added these things to his “ test”— he didn’t .

What John said is good enough for us 'legalists'.....

...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil

By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

1 John 3:7-10

​

Which is why Jesus can judge between the sheep and the goats by what they did, not by what they claim with their mouth.....

...whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 25:45-46

​

Paul could have added these things to his “ test”— he didn’t .

Actually, he did add that to his test. He said the faith that justifies all by itself is the faith that expresses itself in love......

the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6
​

'Do nothing' faith doesn't justify. Faith 'expressing itself through love' does.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You would put the greatest commandment within the lessor commandments, as if it is only a summary of them?

Not that to love God and Love others is a summation of the other commandments. While Love fulfills the Law, it is also transcendant to the Law.

Maybe think of it this way. With the Law, you light a lightbulb. With Love, you light the sun. You wouldn't say that the sun shines with all the light of that light bulb. It will light all the lightbulb lights, and so much more. Love is that way.

Much love!

The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Romans 13:10​

 

[Addy]

116 pages of debate.... Who has changed their mind? LOL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The one who has been raised with Christ, having died with Him, WILL appear with Jesus in glory. It seems you do not think this is true.
But it is, as all of God's Word is True.

It's all very true. That's why we are told to keep believing. You can't have anything you don't believe in.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

116 pages of debate.... Who has changed their mind? LOL

Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 2 Timothy 4:2​

There are more people not posting here than there are posting. The seed sown into them is like seed sown out of season. Meaning you didn't intend to plant it because by all appearances it seems like not the time and place to plant. But some of that seed will find fertile ground and come to fruition. And the worker will receive his reward at the resurrection.

 

[Addy]

There are more people not posting here than there are posting. The seed sown into them is like seed sown out of season. Meaning you didn't intend to plant it because by all appearances it seems like not the time and place to plant. But some of that seed will find fertile ground and come to fruition. And the worker will receive his reward at the resurrection.

I just find it mind-boggling how these circular arguments go on and on... You have two camps of believers... Those who believe that salvation is secure and a done deal at the time of conversion... and those who believe you can lose your salvation at some point IF you decide to sin. This argument in my opinion is NOT one that ever gets resolution... It seems there are some who seem to feel COMFORT in thinking they play a part in KEEPING themselves saved. The same thing happens when Catholics try to defend their faith with protestants... NO ONE ever comes out with a change of mind or heart. Anyways... It is what it is.

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul thought that the “ keeping of the Law” was the Way to be “ Righteous” and Merit Heaven.....THAT was the way to be Justified ,according to his previous Super- Legalistic Mind- set....of course, all of that changed once he met Jesus.....too many in here have Paul’s old problem—- they have yet to meet Jesus.....they STILL think that they can be “ good enough” and Earn Heaven....

It was all of the “ religious” stuff that Paul called “Dung”......all I can say to that is “AMEN!”

Yes it was all the religious zeal , the pride of self righteousness and etc that paul counted as dung . But never the law itself . That he called holy just and good . No man can be justified by the law . By the law comes the knowledge of sin . It tells us what is evil etc .
And since all have sinned there is no way one can justify themselves at all by the law . ONLY by the shed blood of Christ can one ever
be justified .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those who believe that salvation is secure and a done deal at the time of conversion.

That would be me. Salvation is secure. So secure and so great that you and I would do well to keep trusting in it like the Bible tells us to do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

... and those who believe you can lose your salvation at some point IF you decide to sin.

If you mean 'go back to unbelief', yes, you lose the promise of eternal life if you go back to your old life of sin in unbelief....

...let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25​

 

[Addy]

That would be me. Salvation is secure. So secure and so great that you and I would do well to keep trusting in it like the Bible tells us to do.

I am also secure in my salvation... however... you have added the condition to it... in a very sneaky way... LOL
It's all good.... I have learned much in my time here.... First and foremost is that I am only responsible for what I believe... and how I live my life.

Perhaps some people like these types of discussions and see them as helpful... I don't... and it makes me sad that Christianity is so mis-represented.... Anyways... I'm out .... Have a beautiful day Ferris...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

NO ONE ever comes out with a change of mind or heart. Anyways.

I think you're right, most don't change their mind. Doctrinal pride is a very serious problem among Christians. But I did in fact get off the fence about Osas when I read the scriptures and saw the plain warnings about what will happen if you stop believing, and seeing how the verses that Osas uses to defend Osas don't have to only mean what they say they mean.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I am also secure in my salvation... however... you have added the condition to it... in a very sneaky way... LOL

I don't think John was being sneaky when he said we remain in the son and the Father IF the word remains in us.

 

[Cooper]

116 pages of debate.... Who has changed their mind? LOL

People should not even be thinking that God's grace allows them to live a licentious life. What a farce.

This is the lie of OSAS and that is what Satan wants us to believe.
.

 

[Cooper]

I just find it mind-boggling how these circular arguments go on and on... You have two camps of believers... Those who believe that salvation is secure and a done deal at the time of conversion... and those who believe you can lose your salvation at some point IF you decide to sin. This argument in my opinion is NOT one that ever gets resolution... It seems there are some who seem to feel COMFORT in thinking they play a part in KEEPING themselves saved. The same thing happens when Catholics try to defend their faith with protestants... NO ONE ever comes out with a change of mind or heart. Anyways... It is what it is.

We all sin from time to time and God will forgive us our trespasses. It is not about that, but rather about the lost sheep who deliberately and knowingly leaves the Good Shepherd and joins up with the goats, i.e. the backslider, the one who turns their back on God.

I doubt there is anyone here who will do that, everyone is so very committed and firm in their faith.
.