Scriptures that trinitarians Don't Want You to Know About - #5, Book of Acts

[Wrangler]

the truth is not something but somebody

Unresponsive to the point of Trinitarians desperately trying to justify their doctrine by equating a WHAT (word) with a WHO.

 

[post]

This thread is about how the Book of Acts undermines trinitarianism. Don't try to change the subject.

this forum is about Christianity.
don't try to change the subject: the subject is Christ; it is always about Christ

 

[post]

This shows trinitarianism does not bring out the fruit of the Spirit.

no, this shows you have not read John 8:24, and your version of 'fruit' is to welcome blasphemy with open arms into your bed.
it is clear: you believe that Christ is I AM or you die in your sins.
John 8:24 are the words of Jesus; take it up with Him.

oh but you only have one book in your bible, because you're here to deny God, right?
well let me be your servant:

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
(Acts 20:28)​

the church of WHO?
bought with WHOSE BLOOD?

Christ is God.
a good shepherd gives no quarter to wolves.

[/endthread]

 

[post]

Trinitarians falsely equate being worshipped as proof of God. It is not. David was worshipped and that did not make him God.

David was not worshipped. what are you, a JW??

have a look at Revelation 19:10 & 22:9

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I trust you realize you are NOT sticking to what is in the Bible here but constructing some kind of synthesis - for the purposes of supporting an doctrine that is NOT explictly taught in the Bible. Otherwise, you'd simply quote that one verse.

Sure @Wrangler I do prefer we stick to
Scripture so here are the references

I trust you realize you are NOT sticking to what is in the Bible here but constructing some kind of synthesis - for the purposes of supporting an doctrine that is NOT explictly taught in the Bible. Otherwise, you'd simply quote that one verse.

Sure @Wrangler I totally agree it is more unifying effective and universal to stick with Scripture

Here are the Commandments by Scripture
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22:36-40 - King James Version
Matthew 23:36-40
And
JOHN 13:34

Bible Gateway passage: John 13:34 - New King James Version

 

[Emily Nghiem]

no, this shows you have not read John 8:24, and your version of 'fruit' is to welcome blasphemy with open arms into your bed.
it is clear: you believe that Christ is I AM or you die in your sins.
John 8:24 are the words of Jesus; take it up with Him.

oh but you only have one book in your bible, because you're here to deny God, right?
well let me be your servant:

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
(Acts 20:28)​

the church of WHO?
bought with WHOSE BLOOD?

Christ is God.
a good shepherd gives no quarter to wolves.

[/endthread]

Dear @post
If you are framing Jesus Christ from God's perspective, yes, the Son and the Father are One ( John 10:29-30 ).

When we talk about Jesus and God from our human perspective,
God the Father sent/created Jesus.
But nowhere in the Bible does it ever say
Jesus the Son created God the Father.
These roles are distinct, not interchangeable.

By the same passage where Jesus declared
He and the Father are One
John 10:29-30
Jesus also says none are greater than the Father who is greater than all.

These two statements are not in conflict.
Jesus stated both within the same context, both are true at the same time.

We just see it and say it different ways, depending on CONTEXT,
because our human perception is finite
and frames things one angle at a time.

 

[Wrangler]

no, this shows you have not read John 8:24, and your version of 'fruit' is to welcome blasphemy with open arms into your bed.

Friend. The trinity is not in the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

Christ is God.

The Bible does not say this. You just replace the word of God with your own tradition.

 

[Wrangler]

If you are framing Jesus Christ from God's perspective, yes, the Son and the Father are One

We and God are also one. John 17:22. Doesn't make us God any more than Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

David was not worshipped.

David was worshipped. The Hebrew word is worship. Just not all trinitarian translations honestly translate words that undermine their doctrine - and substitute it with prostrate, bow, etc.

Bethsabee bowed herself, and worshipped the king.
1 Kings 1:16 (DRA, JUB, WYC)

 

[Wrangler]

Sure @Wrangler I totally agree it is more unifying effective and universal to stick with Scripture

Here are the Commandments by Scripture
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22:36-40 - King James Version
Matthew 23:36-39

I really don't know what point you are trying to make. Jesus said the most important command is the Sh'ma. To love God with all your heart is not the way God would talk about himself. That is Jesus did not say he is God and people should pray to him and love him with all your heart but this other character called God.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I really don't know what point you are trying to make. Jesus said the most important command is the Sh'ma. To love God with all your heart is not the way God would talk about himself. That is Jesus did not say he is God and people should pray to him and love him with all your heart but this other character called God.

John 13:34
Jesus says to love one another as He has loved us.

It is in Matthew 18:15-20
where praying in agreement, Jesus is there in the midst of us.

There is more Scripture where Jesus says
1. Whoever receives you who comes in my name receives me
2. Whoever receives me receives the Father who sent me
Matthew 10:40

That is where the process of RECEIVING Jesus is referred to.

All the people I know who understand Jesus authority pray to God THROUGH Christ.
Again I do not see any place where you and I disagree on Scripture.

Whatever "other people" are doing or saying in conflict can be resolved by sticking to Scripture (not arguing about what it does NOT say).

 

[APAK]

no, this shows you have not read John 8:24, and your version of 'fruit' is to welcome blasphemy with open arms into your bed.
it is clear: you believe that Christ is I AM or you die in your sins.
John 8:24 are the words of Jesus; take it up with Him.

oh but you only have one book in your bible, because you're here to deny God, right?
well let me be your servant:

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
(Acts 20:28)​

the church of WHO?
bought with WHOSE BLOOD?

Christ is God.
a good shepherd gives no quarter to wolves.

[/endthread]

You are in ignorance of the meaning of John 8:24. Why do you keep embarrassing yourself with scripture you cannot understand without forcing upon yourself and onto others a corrupt bias and the worship of a worn-out pagan idea.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

the truth is not something but somebody
I am the way the truth and the life and the resurrection and the life!

it’s a mystery we cannot comprehend

@theefaith
Jesus being the truth does not mean
the truth is Jesus.

Like saying the police are the law at the door
but that doesn't mean the law is the police.

Cats can be animal, but that doesn't mean all animals are cats.

To clarify God's truth, I more often call this
God's Laws (which Jesus embodies and fulfills) or the Kingdom of God.

Jesus is the Law/Word of God embodied on a level that man can receive.
I would say Authority of Justice is
equally interchangeable with Jesus.
Where Lord of lords means the Authority
of Law over all other laws.


The Spirit of Truth is a role played by the Holy Spirit in bringing spiritual peace and freedom to humanity.

As for Person, I understand this to mean perspective:
First person is when you speak directly. God the Father/Author/Creator of all saying IAM What I AM. God speaking or manifesting directly to us is in First Person.

Second Person is speaking of or expressing God's truth and love through a second Party, which is the role of the Son Christ Jesus embodying God's laws and truth so this can be communicated, received and embraced by man

Third Person is God's love and truth expressed to us through the words or interactions between third parties we witness. So when these third parties unite, agree on truth and pray through Christ, that's another way God manifests to us.

All three levels are still manifestations of the ONE God. To share experiences and understanding of each context, distinct names are used.

Justice or Jesus is where we focus on the Authority of God's laws fulfilled in the Spirit of Justice.

The Holy Spirit accompanies Justice as Heavenly Peace with the Kingdom of God, and the Spirit of Truth bringing COMFORT. So healing and peace for humanity is related.

These are NOT separate "gods"
These are distinct manifestations
of the ONE God.

I don't see anyone here trying to make it more than just ONE God the Father.

The terms and attempts to explain anything about this "Trinity dogma" serve more like a stumbling block causing confusion and division.

I agree with @Wrangler the closer we stick to just Scripture, we avoid this complication in the first place.

Our faith is one, but this contorted way of taking parts of Father/Son/HolySpirit out of context or mixing contexts just loses the universal message and audience.

I pray we adhere to unity with God through Christ as the One Mediator between us and God, pray to uplift and restore God's Truth and understanding between us as fellow believers, and let the Holy Spirit bring Comfort and Peace. God's will be done, in Christ Jesus name. Amen.

 

[Wrangler]

I agree with @Wrangler the closer we stick to just Scripture, we avoid this complication in the first place.

Our faith is one, but this contorted way of taking parts of Father/Son/HolySpirit out of context or mixing contexts just loses the universal message and audience.

I find it profoundly disturbing that trinitarians place their 4th century manmade doctrine as an obstacle to bringing people to Christ. A few months ago, our recently retired pastor gave a sermon talking about how simple Christ's message is: Follow me.

She pointed out that he did not put commonly considered prerequisites as any kind of burden, e.g., repenting of sin, purifying oneself, submitting to sacraments, reading and demonstrating knowledge of Scripture or doctrine or believing in a non-monotheistic God. Just right action - follow God's Anointed. Our job is to bring people to God's Anointed, period. His job is everything else.

This is Christian dogma, what we are willing to die over. Sadly, too many confuse denominational doctrines, which are disputable with proper dogma. I guess some people just cannot handle the simplicity of the universal message: love God, love others.

 

[Emily Nghiem]

I find it profoundly disturbing that trinitarians place their 4th century manmade doctrine as an obstacle to bringing people to Christ. A few months ago, our recently retired pastor gave a sermon talking about how simple Christ's message is: Follow me.

She pointed out that he did not put commonly considered prerequisites as any kind of burden, e.g., repenting of sin, purifying oneself, submitting to sacraments, reading and demonstrating knowledge of Scripture or doctrine or believing in a non-monotheistic God. Just right action - follow God's Anointed. Our job is to bring people to God's Anointed, period. His job is everything else.

This is Christian dogma, what we are willing to die over. Sadly, too many confuse denominational doctrines, which are disputable with proper dogma. I guess some people just cannot handle the simplicity of the universal message: love God, love others.

Dear @Wrangler
Yes, everyone I meet has a different process of learning how to love one another as deeply, naturally and unconditionally as God does.

The hardest obstacles creating biases and conditions is bssed on what we have not yet forgiven, which causes to project this issue onto others.

People with negative experiences with Christians/Theists or with nontheist/skeptics can come across as defensive or biased toward one person more than another.

I find forgiveness makes communicating common humanity and shared value easier to convey and connect on, while unforgiveness creates barriers in the way.

If we agree to forgive more fully, this lets God in to help make the other corrections.

The love and care for our neighbor is there.

But it doesn't communicate well if we appear to be judgmental and unforgiving to others.

It leads to misperception instead of connecting in the spirit of God's truth and love we are both trying to share.
Forgiveness opens the door to seeing and receiving more of what God is trying to show.

 

[Wrangler]

The hardest obstacles creating biases and conditions is bssed on what we have not yet forgiven, which causes to project this issue onto others.

Profound.

 

[theefaith]

Unresponsive to the point of Trinitarians desperately trying to justify their doctrine by equating a WHAT (word) with a WHO.

Leviticus 22:31
Therefore shall ye keep mycommandments, and do them: I am the Lord.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments

only God can give commandments
Only God can change the commandments
Matt 5
Only God can work miracles
The wind and sea obey him

 

[Wrangler]

only God can give commandments
Only God can change the commandments

You say this repeatedly but it is patently not true. Government issue commandments all the time.

 

[theefaith]

You say this repeatedly but it is patently not true. Government issue commandments all the time.

no
Laws maybe not commandments