new version of OSAS?

[Grailhunter]

Being “ good” beats the heck out of being” Bad” and certainty God is pleased when people behave well—— it just isn’t on the Menu for Salvation....Anybody thinks that they will make it to Heaven, based in their “ Goodness” is Damned—- I can guarantee you that.....

Here is the flaw in your thinking....
Our goodness does not save us.
Our goodness does not get us to heaven...
This is true...again but you also know the other side of it and you are trying to twist it. I do not think you are stupid, that does not mean you can not say silly, stupid, and crazy things with the intent to deceive.

Being saved is not a ticket to heaven.
Being saved is not a ticket to sin.
And when it is all over we all face Christ on Judgment day.
Good Deeds is not what gets us to heaven...
But the Bible makes it very clear that bad deeds can send you to hell, whether you were initially saved or not.
There are a lot of scriptures on this and I have provided them but I do not think you and your kind have any regard to scripture. You want to superimpose your beliefs on God and the Bible.
But here ya go anyway.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they nderstand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Here is the flaw in your thinking....
Our goodness does not save us.
Our goodness does not get us to heaven...
This is true...again but you also know the other side of it and you are trying to twist it. I do not think you are stupid, that does not mean you can not say silly, stupid, and crazy things with the intent to deceive.

Being saved is not a ticket to heaven.
Being saved is not a ticket to sin.
And when it is all over we all face Christ on Judgment day.
Good Deeds is not what gets us to heaven...
But the Bible makes it very clear that bad deeds can send you to hell, whether you were initially saved or not.
There are a lot of scriptures on this and I have provided them but I do not think you and your kind have any regard to scripture. You want to superimpose your beliefs on God and the Bible.
But here ya go anyway.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they nderstand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

You bring up many verses that “appear” to be a challenge for my OSAS Doctrine....Lets see if we can engage in a Respectful , intelligent, non- emotional, mature debate ......

The first thing I would like to bring up at the outset is this......you and i may disagree , and you are free to think that I am stupid or even crazy.....but please answer this—— do you REALLY think that I am out to “ purposely deceive” people.....why would I ever consider doing such a thing....talk about a guaranteed Ticket to Hell ! You think that I am wrong and I think that you are wrong....., I don’t doubt for one second your sincerity though....


I ask that you honestly grant me “ that” much before we debate these verses......I think you may have gotten a little “ carried away” with that assessment....step back and reconsider that remark before we begin....only a true demon would purposely mislead people to Hell....if you think that I am a Deceiving Demon , there is no point in even attempting a “man- to - man” debate.....” Reasonable men can and do disagree”.....

 

[Cooper]

so the gift. which was paid for by the giver. is conditional on the person keeping it?

remember, the gift is called ETERNAL life.

How and WHO would throw that away? Can you explain this?

and how can it be called eternal if it is not guaranteed to be eternal?

You ask who would want to throw away the gift of eternal life with God?
If you have ever tried to win souls for Christ, you would know what people opinions are about that.
.

 

[Cooper]

Grace is unmerited favor

God did not give us grace and make us try to earn it by how good we are or by willing ourself to stop sin.

You either believe in all God says or you do not.

Those who do not will come in different flavors. Including those who try to add works to his grace as a means of maintaining their own salvation.

Grace is unmerited favour to those who follow Him ALL the days of their life.
.

 

[Cooper]

You were a slave to sin, but you've now become a slave to righteousness.

I don't know what it means, "Grace does not bind us in chains", what does that mean? Just the same, you've been bought with a price, and God owns you. He's put His seal of ownership on you. He has no intent of letting you go, and He's the Creator.

Much love!

When I said grace does not bind us in chains as in slavery, I meant we are free to turn away any time we want. In other words, OSAS is a lie.
.

 

[Cooper]

Amen. The narrow gate

Not everyone wants the narrow gate. People want the pleasures this world has to offer, without the prospect of eternal life in hell. So, they become Christians believing the lie, that once they are saved by believing in God, they are always saved. That means Satan will be in heaven because he believes in God.

You have a half-baked religion.
.

 

[Corlove13]

Read your own question.
You asked for the view of a "non osas" person.
That is not me.

Well you were explaining that the non OSASers viewed the scriptures in the passage you quoted wrong, but you left out that scripture in the same passage. If you read your writing it is your expression how non OSASers do not see the passage correctly. So my request was that you continue to express how non OSASers view:
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

 

[Corlove13]

Read your own question.
You asked for the view of a "non osas" person.
That is not me.

For me, I do not believe in teaching OSAS as the Gospel. For I believe the Gospel First must be the Gospel of the kingdom that is inclusive of the atonement.
The evangelizism that has been employed goes like this:

Believe Jesus died and Rose and you have heaven when you die[another words you are saved]

it leaves out the Kingdom and regeneration the outcome is usually untransformed lives which by the Spirit, then stated in Roman's one uphold the law. Whereby which we know in John 14, that if we keep his words the father and son come to make their abode with us.

For it is First believing by Faith that Jesus is the Son of God that is the Foundation .

Not what He did to secure heaven when one dies, even that is important.

Point is John, Jesus, and the disciples preached the Kingdom of God and things concerning the kingdom.

They preached what He did, as the death and resurrection to teach us to Trust in the one in which forgiveness and everything we need comes through.

one has to be regenerated [born from above] first.

Another words If one calls him savior can they say He is Lord.

That is the my point of the kingdom Jesus preached being at Hand.....accepting who God, and God's work in Him, or what the disciples preached and testified to shows that He is the Son of God, the King, Lord, creator, one that has say over everything....etc.

In order to trust Him as Lord

Because the good News is that you can now live in the kingdom of God through the Person of Jesus......So one believes first who He is by what was preached about Him...how He died and conquered death, what happen at His Baptism, the miracles He did, the peace He preached, how He teached, how He went about doing good,how He lives forever...etc.

For Ephesians says "13 says :

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Do you see they trusted a "whom" Jesus....First. this is how you are born from above.....

For How one continues to receive the atoning work is "in" him.

Yet the evangelizism style that many OSASers have heard was to trust in what He did......to secure heaven when they died....

But again they preached what He did so that you would trust in the one in which forgiveness comes through.

 

[Corlove13]

As a former OSASer, and still go to a Baptist church....

Here is the problem..many people in the church believe you can be a Christian without being a disciple.

Another words He is savior but not Lord.

Following Him is thus optional for them.

And it really is like .....I'll take your blood, but I do not want nothing to do with you.

As I shared in previous post...the disciples preached the death and burial of Christ...so we would Trust Him.........

Because it is optional for many ....then how can a mind truly be at peace?

3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. ISAIAH 26

Do you see.....why? Because thou trusteth in thee....

Forgiveness of Sin......is found in Christ.
In- meaning the location

But the Gospel we heard gives you forgiveness before receiving Him as Lord.

Hopefully someone is looking at the order ....
Being born from above is a must.....
And that is through trusting who Jesus is....

It is in Him we receive the life that sustains us.....As Jesus said, man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.

Eating the word, by taking it in and doing it...is not optional. We need it to live...it is doing the word that sustains life. JESUS SAID: THE WORDS HE SPOKE WERE SPIRIT AND LIFE.

And truly that is what salvation is "life"
And it is life that begins now in the kingdom.

He said:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What you are saying is absurd. How can I prove a wrong a wrong. You know you are lying.



No one is preaching works saves....you just keep on lying.



The Law has nothing to do with Christianity. Christ has every reason to expect us to obey His Word the best we can.



No Grace is just a part....so much more. He is the power behind Grace. Christ is the what saves us. His sacrifice, served as a propitiation for us, His blood, redeemed us, justified us, so that we can be reconciled with God as the family of God. Because of all that He extend His Grace to us so we can be saved...A precious thing that you and your kind take a dump on, by preaching that evildoers will go to heaven. You play Christ for a fool...you think you are smarter than Him? Do you think you can fool Him?



Again you lie with intent to deceive. Paul condemned those that were trying to force Christians to follow the Mosaic Law. Paul was not condemning following the teachings of Christ or the Apostles....AWW! Such Lies!!! Such craziness!!!


More lies! Such silliness running in your head.

I guess you have never read the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats and what happened to those goats.

James 5:20 let him know that the one who has turned a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

James 4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Once again. You have proved me write all those times I was saying you were a worker for,

Its rediculous to say yu do not teach works, when your plan of salvation is all about all the works you do.

anyway, I am done. Go work to earn yur salvation, I will not try to help you any Orel. Good day,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As a former OSASer, and still go to a Baptist church....

Here is the problem..many people in the church believe you can be a Christian without being a disciple.

Another words He is savior but not Lord.

Following Him is thus optional for them.

And it really is like .....I'll take your blood, but I do not want nothing to do with you.

As I shared in previous post...the disciples preached the death and burial of Christ...so we would Trust Him.........

Because it is optional for many ....then how can a mind truly be at peace?

3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. ISAIAH 26

Do you see.....why? Because thou trusted in thee....

Forgiveness of Sin......is found in Christ.
In- meaning the location

But the Gospel we heard gives you forgiveness before receiving Him as Lord.

Hopefully someone is looking at the order ....
Being born from above is a must.....
And that is through trusting who Jesus is....

It is in Him we receive the life that sustains us.....As Jesus said, man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.

Eating the word, by taking it in and doing it...is not unoptional. We need it to live...it is doing the word that sustains life. JESUS SAID: THE WORDS HE SPOKE WERE SPIRIT AND LIFE.

And truly that is what salvation is "life"
And it is life that begins now in the kingdom.

He said:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Just because there can be a licentious believer, does not make eternal life conditional.

I grew up baptist. So yes, I was just like you once

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You ask who would want to throw away the gift of eternal life with God?
If you have ever tried to win souls for Christ, you would know what people opinions are about that.
.

Yeah I do

I also know the apostle johns opinion

they were never of us, for if they were of us they never would have departed, but they departed to prove they were never of us,

just because someone claimed they have faith in God and have recieved his gift does not mean they ever knew him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace is unmerited favour to those who follow Him ALL the days of their life.
.

That’s not grace, that’s works my friend. That is merited favor by of your own power following him and doing all he asks us to col

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not everyone wants the narrow gate. People want the pleasures this world has to offer, without the prospect of eternal life in hell. So, they become Christians believing the lie, that once they are saved by believing in God, they are always saved. That means Satan will be in heaven because he believes in God.

You have a half-baked religion.
.

Yep your right

most want the wide gate, full of works, religion rules and regulation. And game playing. They reject grace, and preach a different Jesus if they teach him at all.

 

[Addy]

Funny how there was no discussion on hypocrisy and BOASTING...

Oh look at me... I have 4 computers.. oh look at me... I have an expensive library... Oh look at me... look at how good I am... I paid for a lady's groceries... and then I broadcasted it in the forums to PROVE how good I am. LOL

WORKS.... LEGALISM.... Look at me... I am being good and doing good. You can smell a teacher of "works" a mile away... they focus on everyone else's sins but their own... because well... they are SO good.

This thread should have been DEAD...but it somehow came back to life after a brief QUIET time.

LOL... and LOL ... Guess the BBQ is cancelled...

BB... you have more patience than I at trying to reason with the DO and BE gooders.

I will continue to encourage the NEW BELIEVER to KEEP their EYES on the PRIZE which is JESUS CHRIST.

JESUS CHRIST is the REASON you are saved.... JESUS CHRIST is the ONE who keeps you SAVED. JESUS CHRIST is a promise keeper.
and there is NO goodness that comes from MAN. SALVATION is a GIFT given to those who would believe in the finished work of CHRIST on the CROSS.... attempting to ADD to this is blasphemy.

 

[Taken]

Can a converted man trespass against other men , lie cheat , steal , etc , Yeah ,

Yes, they can. Primarily BECAUSE, becoming saved and born again, Does not mean; you KNOW ALL THINGS.
IF you did ^ (know all things)... would one say they WILL...take their child for ice-cream, take them to disneyland, tell an employer they WILL do their Best work, tell their spouse they WILL do as they ask, blah, blah...and then (something comes up) and they Don't do as they said they WILL...
THEY LIED to the child, the employer, the spouse....right?
* Did they SIN Against God?
* Or Did they TRESPASS against another Person?
* And WHO exactly does Scripture TEACH, to ASK FOR FORGIVENESS?
And FOR WHAT exactly?

God has forgiven the Converted of their SIN (of disbelief Against God), AND their Trespasses Against men.
A converted man can NO LONGER SIN Against God (prevented by the indwelling Power of God)...but men Continue to Live among men. (Unknowing of all things), and say things, and do things, that MAY quite easily be a TRESPASS AGAINST another person. And by Gods Instruction: He says:

TO: forgive a brother his Trespasses against you....and inturn, God WILL forgive Trespasses you have committed Against other men. (Whether or not the other man forgives you, your trespasses against other men)
* Its a lesson, in Gods great compassion toward men, (of forgiveness); for men to MIMIC and LIKEWISE "forgive men" of their Trespasses against them.
* It doesn't matter, IF the other person accepts your "apology" for Trespassing against them....God Accepts your "apology" and forgives your trespass against another, you are sorry for having committed.

As far as confusing SIN with a Trespass...
SIN is Against the Lord God. Only the Lord God can forgive what is Against Him.
(Strictly between A MAN and GOD).
But all day long men can and do Trespass Against men. (Intentionally or unintentionally) IF that IS A SIN...and you ask the other MAN to forgive you...ARE you of the belief...ALL MEN have been instructed to FORGIVE SIN? Wouldn't THAT MAKE you EQUAL to God?

Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

Scripture notices us only God can forgive SIN.
Scripture also notices us when Jesus was revealed as the Christ, Christ IS the Power of God, and He IS WITH the authority to FORGIVE SIN. And WHY the scribes and Pharisees (knowing ONLY GOD can forgive SIN)...were accusatory Against Jesus, FOR FORGIVING MEN OF THEIR SIN. Accusing Jesus of blasphemy for "making Himself equal with God".

BUT IT IS SIN and it must not be once named among us .

Men against Men, (lying, stealing, etc.) IS A SIN, "UNDER MOSAIC LAW".
You can read Mosaic Law, all 600+ laws and find Man against Man is a SIN.
* ARE YOU UNDER THE Mosaic Law? Do you claim TO A Rabbi that a man has LIED to you, and the Rabbi go to the (mosaic LAW) and pronounce the (Mosaic LAW) Consequence AGAINST YOU?

SIN against the Lord God...IS DISBELIEF in the Lord God. When a man Confesses sorrow for not having Believed and Confesses Heartful (true) belief in the Lord God...
He forgives, He remembers no more what was...and He puts HIS Spirit (His Power) within you, that you may NEVER AGAIN be Against Him (Disbelieve IN Him).
He then tells you...you are Freed from Sin...
By His Power, (which supersedes ALL other power)...You can NEVER again SIN. (Be Against the Lord God).

Are you taught, SIN against a man IS FOR NOT BELIEVING IN Another Earthly man?
Did God give you the Power to forgive men their SIN of not believing IN YOU? Nah.

We have got to get back into our bibles .

Absolutely!
Sin and Trespasses are two Different things.

Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses AND sins;

Matt 6:
[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
[11] Give us this day our daily bread.
[12] And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive our trespassers,
[13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

How on earth can sin no longer be sin .

It can, under Mosaic Law, and still waiting for the Christ Messiah to arrive on Earth.

HOWEVER..."IF" you have been "quickened"... ie, BORN AGAIN...your SIN against God IS FORGIVEN...Gods Power within you, His SEAL keeps you freed from Ever again disbelieving (sinning) Against Him.

Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Your relationship WITH GOD is "SPIRITUAL".
Your relationship WITH MEN is still "Earthly", So WHEN you trespass Against a man, you Apologize to the MAN, and correct your trespass AGAINST the MAN.

Think about what you just said .

Okay, and you think about doing a study on the difference betwee SIN and TRESPASS, and HOW "christian MEN" have been preaching ...
Converted men, and Gentiles are NOT UNDER Mosaic LAW...while preaching..."men sin again men, and men should forgive sin" (which "IS" Mosaic Law teaching) ...
* READ the Scriptures, show me ONE instance, whereby A GENTILE...or A CONVERTED JEW...is Taught to FORGIVE MEN OF SIN.

JESUS is not a license to sin .

License to SIN... think about that CUNNING phrase. Sounds like straight out of Satans mouth.

WHO NEEDS permission, authority, a LICENSE TO COMMIT SIN? NO ONE! EVERY EARTHLING, naturally born is born in sin, commits sin...and ONCE converted...he can SIN NO MORE.
* That phrase "license to sin", is a cunning Satanic PLOY... in DIRECT CONTRAST to the Word of God...
1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

ARE YOU "whosoever" that became converted? Received Gods SEED? Became Born Again?....

* Is that saying the Lord Jesus GRANTED ANYONE a special License? Authority to Continue Sinning AGAINST God?

* who or what are you going to Believe...?
The Lord God? Or men who continue to PREACH...you have Gods Seed...but, but, but, you Continue to SIN...and your SIN is (according to the LAW of Moses, of man sinning against man)?
* Every man HAS SINNED.
* Every man HAS TRESPASSED.
* A Converted man has been forgiven his SIN Against God, and expressly can SIN NO MORE.
* ANY man, converted or not, can Trespass against OTHER MEN. And Scripture teaches FOR "converted" MEN TO FORGIVE other MEN
Of their Trespasses against other men.

HE came to set us free FROM Sin,

PRECISELY! He came. He Offered FREEDOM FROM SIN. If you Accepted His OFFER, and BY HIS POWER became FREED FROM SIN...
IS it your understanding, Gods POWER FAILED "IN YOU"...and YOUR own power in you, is greater that His Power IN YOU?...THAT by your OWN power, YOU CONTINUE TO TESTIFY YOU "CONTINUE" to SIN, and have to keep asking and reminding the Lord, HIS POWER IN YOU FAILED, that YOU SINNED, and NEED REPEATED FORGIVENESS over and over?

Does not Scripture teach...Greater (more POWERFUL) is He that is in you, than he that is in the World? Are you IN the world? IS His Power IN YOU?

Do not confuse your relationship WITH GOD and your relationship WITH MEN.
SIN is "AGAINST GOD", only God forgives SIN.
Trespasses are "AGAINST MEN", and certainly men CAN (and are taught) to forgive men their trespasses.
* Don't fall for corrupt teaching, that you can TRUMP Gods Power and FORGIVE men of SIN.

There is a HUGE difference between...
A man notifying another man his sins ARE forgiven (by the Power of God)...
"And"
A man notifying another men the MAN is forgiving the other man OF SIN.
^ cunning philosophical man made corruption.
Men, forgive other men of trespasses, debts, wrong doing toward THEM, by another man.

Read what paul and others taught the church .

Excellent advice! PAY attention to WHOM "others" and "Paul" were teaching.
The Apostles were SENT OUT to the Jews first, then the other tribesmen, to teach men Under Mosaic Law, their Messiah had arrived, and Fulfilled the Law!
Paul was SENT OUT to the "Gentiles AND Jews" to teach the Jews, the same as the other Apostles....AND teach the Gentiles ABOUT God AND the Christ Messiah, and His arrivial on Earth and About His Offerings....to Jews, Tribesmen AND Gentiles.

All Scripture is TRUE, but ALL Scripture DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL men. If the Jewish Jesus, tells a Jewish man "Under Mosaic Law", to forgive his brother of SIN....What does THAT have to do with a Gentile man, NOT UNDER Mosaic Law? Nothing.
WHO is being spoken to, BY the speaker, is important. Just as there are thousands of Chinese Laws, spoken, written, published...
So what, if you are not a Chinese citizen or guest in THEIR "jurisdictional" land?
So Jesus tells a Jewish man..."according to the Mosaic Law"...forgive a man of sin..
Are you a Jewish man under, Jewish law?
SEE?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Funny how there was no discussion on hypocrisy and BOASTING...

Oh look at me... I have 4 computers.. oh look at me... I have an expensive library... Oh look at me...

Notifying another of their tools and educational instruction in Scripture is simply knowledge. Men routinely notify potential employers of their education instruction and use of tools...
Men also routinely are curious about the reading, study, educational depth of others who are teaching on a particular topic.
You can observe that all the time, when people claim something, then say ... so in so Preacher said it, and he is educated in theology, and has a church with 5,000 members, has tv stations around the world...he must be correct.

Bragging...is I have this education, and tools, na, na, na, na, na....and you Dont!

look at how good I am...

He said no such thing!

I paid for a lady's groceries... and then I broadcasted it in the forums to PROVE how good I am. LOL

That is your made up words, trying to pass them off as an others words, then laughing about your ploy. Not funny.

WORKS.... LEGALISM.... Look at me... I am being good and doing good. You can smell a teacher of "works" a mile away... they focus on everyone else's sins but their own... because well... they are SO good.

What I smell is, trying to put words in an others mouth, that they did NOT say.

This thread should have been DEAD...

Why? Scripture teaches to hear, learn...and when one says he has, does, continues...it seemingly offends you...WHY not skip over this thread...instead of feeling compelled to say, others should ignore what you decide...
Even when you keep visiting the thread.
Strange.

BB... you have more patience than I at trying to reason with the DO and BE gooders.

That's odd, to call a person a DO and BE gooder, while complaining about them.

I will continue to encourage the NEW BELIEVER to KEEP their EYES on the PRIZE which is JESUS CHRIST.

That's great. And others that DO and BE good, do the same.

JESUS CHRIST is the REASON you are saved.... JESUS CHRIST is the ONE who keeps you SAVED. JESUS CHRIST is a promise keeper.

Agree.

and there is NO goodness that comes from MAN.

Disagree.
Scripture has a plethora of examples of a mans "works" accounted as "good".

SALVATION is a GIFT given to those who would believe in the finished work of CHRIST on the CROSS....

Sure.

attempting to ADD to this is blasphemy.

Your complaint was about accusing one of Bragging. What does that have to do with ADDING to Scripture?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

Yep your right

most want the wide gate, full of works, religion rules and regulation. And game playing. They reject grace, and preach a different Jesus if they teach him at all.

I reckon OSAS is that wide gate for the religious do-gooders. Sorry, but that is how I feel.
.

 

[Addy]

That is your made up words

Nope... not my words... but I can't seem to find where they are.... The context in which these disclosures were made was a prime example
of boasting.... yet this did not get discussed or OWNED.... the person simply went a way for a few days and decided to LAY LOW.

The issue is not the person... the issue is that LEGALISM breeds hypocrisy.

 

[Cooper]

That’s not grace, that’s works my friend. That is merited favor by of your own power following him and doing all he asks us to col

Following Jesus is not works, but thanks for that, apparently you do not believe we should follow Jesus. There is only one other master we can follow, and that is Satan.
.