new version of OSAS?

[Cooper]

Yep. Also by your gospel you are known..



They are not. John said whoever sins has never known God. Its not an OSAS issue. Its a have they ever been saved issue.

Never means Never. Jude said their destruction was foreknown. They were never saved my friend. Its not OSAS. OSAS depends in the actual salvation of a person. Not a mere belief claim of faith.

About this foreknown business. It means God already knew from the foundation of the earth the choices we would make. I chose Christ of my own freewill and I intend to follow him all the days of my life. But no way did God point a finger at creation and say these can go to Satan, and I will have the rest. This preordained thing is totally misunderstood.
.

 

[Cooper]

How can you say you love Jesus, yet reject his payment for sin. by trying to insert your own works as equal with his? and denying his own mercy and grace with which he is offering to save you?

Don't be silly. Jesus did it all. We simply accept His free gift. No work on our part involved.
.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

No work on our part involved.

Except that’s not true.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12)

"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:5-8)

 

[Taken]

Nope... not my words... but I can't seem to find where they are.... The context in which these disclosures were made was a prime example
of boasting.... yet this did not get discussed or OWNED.... the person simply went a way for a few days and decided to LAY LOW.

The issue is not the person... the issue is that LEGALISM breeds hypocrisy.

I do not agree with everything that person says. I have not seen that person brag he is better than others, because he has a certain education level or particular tools.

Lots of people have specific geared educations and tools. So what?
Sharing what education one has or what tools one has... is simply information, not much different in one saying they have livestock...specifically, 3 horses, 6 pigs, 10 goats, 2 donkeys.
So what?

I do not agree "legalism" breeds hypocrisy.
Legalism pertains to the LAW.
Obeying the LAW, is a broad term.
There are thousands of LAWS, and obeying the LAW, is specific as to WHAT specific law APPLIES to an individual.
Obeying a Law that applies to an individual, is Expressly the individual "Fulfilling" the law that applies to them.
If you are a motor vehicle driver in one of the several States, traveling on a public road and STOP at a STOP SIGN, you have LEGALLY fulfilled the requirement of the LAW that applies to you.
Jesus arrived on Earth with many things to Accomplish... One such things was TO FULFILL particular portions of JEWISH LAW, which He did accomplish...
HOW did Jesus' act of "legalism", breed hypocrisy?
IF you stop at a stop sign, you accomplished fulfillment of the States Law...
HOW does that act of "legalism", breed hypocrisy?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Yep... legalism is all about self... me me me and my goodness...

So in the entire Old Testament God was trying to get the Israelites and those around them to be about themselves huh?

@Addy has a very limited understanding about how the law relates to believers in Christ. The law/legalism is not about “me , me, me”: The law is written in the hearts of the believers! It’s inside the true believers in Christ! That’s how we ESTABLISH the law!

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

This what God was trying to get the Israelites to do in the Old Testament:

"Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings." (Isaiah 51:7)

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." (Romans 6:17)

 

[Cooper]

Except that’s not true.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12)

"And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:5-8)

When I have a problem I WORK OUT a solution in my head.

When I add to my faith, I am increasing in knowledge.

You more or less said that to Addy when you spoke of the heart. That isn't work either.
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

About this foreknown business. It means God already knew from the foundation of the earth the choices we would make. I chose Christ of my own freewill and I intend to follow him all the days of my life. But no way did God point a finger at creation and say these can go to Satan, and I will have the rest. This preordained thing is totally misunderstood.
.

Jude: 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can only Go by what the word says my friend. If jude says they were marked out for condemnation along time ago. then they were I am not going to question him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Don't be silly. Jesus did it all. We simply accept His free gift. No work on our part involved.
.

then you accept that eternal life is eternal not conditional. which means it could be lost

thank you

 

[Corlove13]

As a former OSASer, and still go to a Baptist church....

Here is the problem..many people in the church believe you can be a Christian without being a disciple.

Another words He is savior but not Lord.

Following Him is thus optional for them.

And it really is like .....I'll take your blood, but I do not want nothing to do with you.

As I shared in previous post...the disciples preached the death and burial of Christ...so we would Trust Him.........

Because it is optional for many ....then how can a mind truly be at peace?

3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. ISAIAH 26

Do you see.....why? Because thou trusteth in thee....

Forgiveness of Sin......is found in Christ.
In- meaning the location

But the Gospel we heard gives you forgiveness before receiving Him as Lord.

Hopefully someone is looking at the order ....
Being born from above is a must.....
And that is through trusting who Jesus is....

It is in Him we receive the life that sustains us.....As Jesus said, man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.

Eating the word, by taking it in and doing it...is not optional. We need it to live...it is doing the word that sustains life. JESUS SAID: THE WORDS HE SPOKE WERE SPIRIT AND LIFE.

And truly that is what salvation is "life"
And it is life that begins now in the kingdom.

He said:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

This is amazing to think on.....
God the father proclaimed His Son...at Baptism

There is a command to repent and believe the gospel. If you look at these two things which are said to do. Then we find that when one is born again things are kept up by the aid of the Holy Spirit. IT is the holy spirit that GUIDES AND LEADS to not only, stay on the path of righteousness.[walking in His statues, not by trying to do The law, but through making Christ Lord by renewing your mind with the right thoughts. The Spirit does not do it for you. What do I mean by this? I mean when you receive the Spirit by faith, even if it's God that led you to repentance, there is something that we do. SINCE WE ARE are called to obey the command to repent and believe the gospel, Every time we renew our mind with the right spirit [atitude one can also say] by the umption of our guide, the Holy Spirit what are we inturn doing? Repenting, rethinking our thinking and trusting in Jesus.

We are to be transformed by the renewing of the mind..
Who are we Trusting for this[meaning made Lord]? Jesus....
It is by renewing the right thought that changes us, the atitude, our character, feelings, and emotions. We are being shaped. Whereby what we do is the reflection of who we are becoming in the inside .....


WHAT I AM SAYING THEN, IS BELIEF IS THE ACTION, NOT TO EARN ANYTHING BUT TO RECEIVE....AND WHAT WE DO TO RECEIVE THE Spirit and be cleansed is the same thing is Kept up in the kingdom, (kept meaning by the aid of the Holy Spirit as a guide to keep us on the path of righteousness. But you still must follow as He leads you as to qualify you to enjoy the promises. [Meaning stay in your lane like in a race] you see because we are already given the beginning and end of our faith....however in the middle of the race, or our journey we must stay on the course. And we do not do it alone the Holy Spirit guides us to remain on the straight and narrow.

Now let us travel to Hebrews for a minute and look at the passage in Hebrews 4 and see if this not only matches up with the above, but what is being said.

Read and study it as I will and I will be back.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Grace is unmerited favour to those who follow Him ALL the days of their life.
.

So Grace is “ unmerited” , But you have to “ Merit” it by your Obedience ( following Him)..... interesting “ take” you have there.....it’s also nonsensical......

 

[Cooper]

Jude: 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can only Go by what the word says my friend. If jude says they were marked out for condemnation along time ago. then they were I am not going to question him

These are men who in their own lifetime turned the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This can only have happened after Christ. However LONG AGO before Christ, such men of any era have always been condemned.
.

 

[Cooper]

then you accept that eternal life is eternal not conditional. which means it could be lost

thank you

For those who have kept the faith.

I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: (2Ti 4:7 KJV)
.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When I said grace does not bind us in chains as in slavery, I meant we are free to turn away any time we want. In other words, OSAS is a lie.
.

“If we are Unfaithful.....He remains Faithful.....”

True....we are free to do what we want.....those that understand Grace have their “ wants” changed....Those That UNDERSTAND and LIVE in Grace would NEVER abandon it.....Who would throw away a FREE GIFT that keeps them from spending an Eternity in Hell ?

Jesus started the OSAS thing.....if it is not true, Jesus is a Liar.....Fat Chance ...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You ask who would want to throw away the gift of eternal life with God?
If you have ever tried to win souls for Christ, you would know what people opinions are about that.
.

You can’t “ throw away” what you don’t have....these souls you are trying to win have not received the Holy Spirit yet, if ever....we are talking about Believers throwing it away....potential Believers are not Believers yet.....they have not been “ won over” yet....

 

[Cooper]

So Grace is “ unmerited” , But you have to “ Merit” it by your Obedience ( following Him)..... interesting “ take” you have there.....it’s also nonsensical......

When he came and saw the grace of God, he rejoiced, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast devotion; (Act 11:23 NRSV)
.

 

[Cooper]

You can’t “ throw away” what you don’t have....these souls you are trying to win have not received the Holy Spirit yet, if ever....we are talking about Believers throwing it away....potential Believers are not Believers yet.....they have not been “ won over” yet....

You are right when you say you cannot throw away something you do not have. A person needs to be saved first.
.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That means Satan will be in heaven because he believes in God.


“ Believing in God “ Saves nobody —- including Satan. Turning to God ( repenting) as a Lost Sinner ,and Trusting in the Finished Work Of The Cross Plus Nothing to Save you is what Saves.....let me know when Satan Repents and turns to Jesus to save him....then you’ll have something....of course, it ain’t gonna happen....Satan’s Fate is Sealed ....His Pride did Him in....” Pride” also rejects Grace.....Pride says, “ I am going to get Saved “ MY” way” instead of God’s way.....My Performance—- NOT God’s Grace......Nothing But The Blood, you say? Pfffttt....that won't get it.....I’m gonna ADD to that.....I want some of that Glory that Jesus thinks is 100% His.....” God won’t have it.

 

[Corlove13]

And that's okay with me.
It's no different than some saying, they don't believe in "christian teaching or mormon teaching or islam teaching"... their option.

It is When, one who "disagress", thereafter attempts to "wrongly" define an others beliefs, that becomes a stage for dispute.



I believe in OSAS, as well as the Gospel Word of the Lord God.



Agree.



eh, do not agree.
IF converted (soul saved, spirit born again),
Your saved soul, goes to Heaven.
Your born again spirit, goes to Heaven.
Your BODY returns to the dust of the Earth, from whence it came.



It doesn't leave out the Kingdom or regeneration...IT harmonizes with the Kingdom and regeneration taught in other Scriptures.



Taught TO WHOM Specifically?
Uphold WHAT LAW Specifically?



Sure. A BIG "IF", for those hearing, believing, following.....BUT HAVE NOT CONFESSED and RECEIVED SALVATION, eh?
(THEY, (the unsaved), are expressly notified...THEY, by their own will and power, must do the KEEPING of Gods Word.
* I am not concerned with that "IF".
I already heartfully CONFESSED and became soul saved, spirit quicked, bodily crucified with Christ....and received Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT (POWER), that GODS Spirit/POWER KEEPS me Forever in Express Faithfulness to the Lord God and His Word of Truth.

* Do you Understand, a man confessing Heartful Belief IN the Lord God....IS expressly the man giving God Authority over his entire LIFE (body, soul, spirit) ? Authority TO Save the mans soul, quicken his spirit, accept their bodily death crucified with Christ, and Gods POWER to SEAL them and KEEP THEM once and forever.

* IF, you willingly GIVE that authority and power to God...over your entire self (body, soul, spirit).... the why presume it is not sufficient ?

.

Well actually ... Faith is a gift from God...FOR expressly "HEARING the Word of God"...which comes long BEFORE a man "believes".
It is silly to believe, you believe in something you don't first "HEAR and LEARN ABOUT".
It's like telling a child, Believe in God...and the child says, what is a god?
Learning the KNOWLEDGE "ABOUT", is first, as taught in Scripture.
THEN ponder, think, listen to your HEARTS thoughts (not your minds thoughts)....and decide IF you are WILLING to accept the Lord Gods Offering.



Sure they did. And which Salvation is connected to Gods Kingdom and the Lords Kingdom, this thread is about Salvation.



First before having entitlement to ENTER the Lord Gods Kingdom... but again the Kingdom is not the express topic.



Well aware and have already mentioned...
Hear, learn, trust, believe, confess...become Converted, become sealed, Once and Forever.

Order and Way and Who, What, When, Why, Where, How, Effects/results...is all taught in scripture.
Men are individuals. Not all men are born, hear, learn, observe, know or understand the exact same things at the exact same time...
Scripture speaks of a Gate and Path...Gender or Age does not determine WHO will choose the narrow Gate, or when, or HOW FAR they have traveled on the Path, hearing, learning, experiencing, testifying of their experiences.




How one continues to receive the Lords "Forgiveness....FOR WHAT exactly"?
Please answer that.

[QUOTE Yet the evangelizism style that many OSASers have heard was to trust in what He did......to secure heaven when they died....

And ??
Trusting what He DID, is a problem?
And??
Is that the LIMIT of what "evangelizing style and OSAS teaches" (according to you?)



Again, I have no Problem with evangelical preaching to TRUST the Lord God...nor in the least do I believe TRUST is the LIMIT of evangelical teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken[/QUOTE]
"How one continues to receive the Lords "Forgiveness....FOR WHAT exactly"?
Please answer that."

The penalty of sin is dealt with, but God wants to save us from actual sin....Another words He wants to get the Hell out of us...lol

ANOTHER WORDS HE DEALT WITH THE PENALTY OF OUR DEEDS, SO WE CAN, AND WHILE WE ARE BE/BEING TRANSFORMED.

YOU SEE GOD'S LOVE IS PERFECT WHAT HE GIVES US IS GRACE TO GROW....

BUT WHILE WE ARE GROWING THE HABITS OF OUR FALLEN NATURE DO NOT DISAPPEAR AUTOMATICALLY....THEY ARE NOT OVERCOMED YET....AND WE CONTINUALLY NEED HIS BLOOD.

YOU SEE JESUS CAME THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL IN YOU....THAT IS WHY HE DID IT FIRST...TO GIVE US HIS SPIRIT WHEREBY IF WE FOLLOW WE TOO CONQUER THE WORLD, FLESH AND DEVIL BY WALKING IN HIS VICTORY.....

YOU SEE WE ARE RECONCILED BY HIS DEATH THAT WE MIGHT BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE......AND I'M SPEAKING OF SAVED IN THE MANNER IN WHICH MOST oF THE TIME THE BIBLE USES THE TERM SAVED....FROM THINGS DEALING WITH THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THIS LIFE WE NOW LIVE ON EARTH.

WHAT HE IS SHOWING YOU is FROM THE FIRST FRUIT Jesus....[if you eat from Him you will not die] parish, meaning spiritually.
And that begins when you First receive the Spirit...and it is real joy and peace to be in the presence of The father and son ,now.

As Jesus did those things that were pleasing to His father and He said the father never left Him alone because of that...We too by His Spirit can please God by walking in His statues [doing what is pleasing to Him]by trusting Jesus as Lord. Which I explained in my last post.

We do not walk in His statutes by trying to keep the law in our natural abilities, the flesh...but through the Spirit by becoming in the heart and Spirit the type of people whose actions(deeds) reflect the heart.

Roman's 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Notes:

John 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Gal 5;16
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Ezekiel 36:37
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Roman's 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Following Jesus is not works, but thanks for that, apparently you do not believe we should follow Jesus. There is only one other master we can follow, and that is Satan.
.

Christians are supposed to follow Paul , as he follows Christ....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

These are men who in their own lifetime turned the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This can only have happened after Christ. However LONG AGO before Christ, such men of any era have always been condemned.
.

Do what?

These men who believed one can be saved simply by believing or saying a prayer but they can live however they want in all ages are licentious. And they have NEVER been saved. No loss of salvation. Because their eternal destiny was forknown long ago

This is for today as well as it was in Jude's day