Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Brakelite]

It is good that committing to a Sabbath was a large part of your recovery, and no one should try and deny it. The only issue here is preaching the means of your recovery, however well intentioned, as absolute necessity of law for all believers, on pain of eternal damnation:

"Obedience was optional... But the reward of the disobedient remained constant. Eternal damnation."

Which really doesn't bother me at all, because I know it is not law of Christ. And preaching as a lawgiver and judge is contrary to Scripture, but I don't believe falsely teaching the Sabbath as law constitutes the kind of false teaching and apostleship, that Scripture utterly warns against and condemns as antichrist.

Unless of course you had power of state to enforce a Sabbath on pains of fine and imprisonment.

Would you do that, if you had the power?

(P.s. Madam charisma would say you actually got saved for the first time after your sins were renewed...Not that it matters. ALl that matters is the here and now (2 Cor 6:2))

It's a Commandment. You keep arguing against me. It's not my Sabbath day... It's God's. It's His authority you deny. And it doesn't matter of it's "moral" or not. God says, remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. You don't. Why not? Because you don't think it's the "law of Christ"??? Who was it who wrote those laws on tables of stone? You keep rounding on me as if I wrote the law. As if I have the right or authority to condemn you to hell if you disobey. I'm just saying, it is written, thus saith the Lord... It wasn't me who said, If ye love Me, keep My commandments.


KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Do you get it? It isn't me you would be obeying here. It isn't about me. It's not my holy day. It's Jesus' day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. Not me. Not my church. Jesus. And He says remember. And you have no, absolutely no excuse or valid biblical reason not to obey. It isn't about your justification. It isn't about working your way to heaven... Even though there may be thousands of Christians who treat it that way. Sidetracking to issues such as that are just that... Sidetracking. Avoidance. Straw men.
The Bible, God's word says, remember. The Roman church says we've changed it to Sunday. The Protestant church says Rome is right, we'll honor Rome's day also. Others don't like to honor any day, so they imagine Jesus said somewhere, honor Me instead. He didn't. Not did He say, nor did any of the apostles say, choose any one of the seven... choose you own day..
God commanded it. He didn't need to do it a second time. He didn't need to remind you after saying the first time, remember to keep My day holy. It's His day. He has a right to command reverence. He has that authority and the Christian Church denies Him that right. Instead of second guessing Him and devising reasons to ignore Him, how about simply saying,
Not my will but thine be done.
You can ignore me, rubbish my opinions from dawn to dusk, and the world won't blink, and not will I. But you really really do need to have good solid sound biblical reasons for ignoring God .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"…it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." (Matthew 12:12)

"But to do good and to share forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." (Hebrews 13:16)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, you continuously argue from an Antinomianist position. I bet you a bazillion dollars you don't keep the seventh day Sabbath holy because you don't believe it's our duty.

Well you would be wrong

be gone with you

your a liar and a theif, you have no fruit of the spirit, and I am wiping the dust, I leave you in Gods hands,

(I bet you do not even know what the sabbath is or what it entails)

although betting is a sin, so I will not do it, I do not want to be seen as the hypocrite you are

 

[Brakelite]

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Heb 7)

Yes, there was a change, it was necessary in order to accommodate a new priesthood that wasn't under the law... The law that said the children of Levi were the only ones who could officiate as priests. That law had changed. We are all now priests. This has nothing to do with the ten commandments, which were not given through the hands of the priesthood. The priesthood and laws pertaining to their ministry had not yet been given.
God looks on their outward ceremonies of humility as a solemn mockery. He regards all religious sham as an insult to Himself. That goes for all the so called Christian rock concerts as well as the most solemn rituals of man in the cathedrals. They are empty, devoid of any meaning, along with the sacrifices of animals and the constant letting of blood in the OT against which God condemned as hypocrisy... Yet despite all that, God still required Israel, and today the church, to honor His day by not profaning it in doing common labor on His day.
God despises hypocrisy. Even keeping the Sabbath is a useless gesture if it doesn't stem from a heart of love and devotion. So even keeping Sabbath just because the Commandment says so is all inadequate tree reason for observing it. It's like saying they only reason I don't commit adultery is because the law says so. But oh, how I wish the law was different then look out ladies. It's the same for all the commandments. I don't keep Sabbath never the law says to. I keep it to spend time with Jesus. I keep it to spend time studying scripture. To spend time with family and friends worshipping. To listen to great sermons and lessons. To join in discussions in Sabbath school on relevant topics of the day. And this... All of this... Is amazingly restful.
And if my neighbors tree falls over in his drive way, or he gets his car/horse/ox/sheep stuck in a ditch, them I'm not going to drive by and shout through the closed window, it's Sabbath today, I'll help you tomorrow. Remember the weightier matters of the law... Justice mercy and love... Love, what Christians attempt to convince replaces the Commandments, doesn't. Love encapsulated them. The commandments define love. They are synonymous with love. You love your neighbor, you're not going to steal from him. Or take his wife. You're not going to dishonor your parents. Your certainly not going to kill him. And if you love God, you're not going to bow down to an idol or pray to a statue. You're not going to use God's name as a form of profanity. You're not going to take away the sacredness of His name. Nor are you going to take away the sacredness of His day.
That's love. That's the law of Christ. That's the new covenant. It's that love that Christ promises to write upon our hearts and minds. It's His law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Where in the world did you get the idea that Christ came to change the Sabbath, when He Himself said not one jot or tittle shall pass from it until the heaven and Earth pass?

"My covenant will I not break nor alter the thing that is gone from My lips." -- Psalms 84:34 KJV

IOW, "My covenant (our agreement that I will bless you if you obey Me) shall I not break nor alter the thing that is gone from My lip (the Ten Commandments)."

You've memorized it backwards to say what you want it to say. It actually says,

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Christ fulfilled it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Not me. I didn't really start going to hear the gospel until I wanted to be saved and know God for myself.

And so again, what about them that have tasted the heavenly gift and fall away back to sins again?

For them OSAS is the myth that it is.

 

[CharismaticLady]

By whose standard? Your's or other anti-Sabbatarians?

By the obvious context that neither of you are looking at.

I'm pretty sure when Lamsa says "flesh" he's referring to our "literal flesh" not the "fleshly nature" that is supposed to have been buried in baptism, right? Let's not emotions cloud our thinking. If he was refering to "fleshly nature" the verse would contradict itself.

See, he's doubly ignorant.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, if we're keeping the Spirit of the Law, then by default we'll be keeping the Letter of the Law...EXCEPT when it comes to the Sabbath, right? Hebrews 4:9 KJV plainly says if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll show it by resting outwardly from our labors on the seventh day "as God did from His". There's simply no other way to interpret the passage. Why did you turn your back on the truth?

The Spirit of the Sabbath is that Jesus is the substance of the Sabbath rest. Col. 2:16-17

You think it is sleeping.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What does "another day" refer to? To Sunday, like most Christians argue? Of course not.

It's talking about the "day" or "period" of David when Israel was supposed to enter into God's rest and enjoy eternal peace and fulfillment of all God's promises.....but since they rejected that rest, Christ had to speak of a "another day" - the "day" of the Church, in which we now enter that same rest and evidence that inward rest through the same means: by resting on the Sabbath day.

That's why Paul says it's the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath so we can show the world Who it is in Whom we are resting for salvation, that they, too, may enter into the same rest.

No, not Sunday. Trust and rest in the Holy Spirit of Christ. That is everyday.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It's most certainly the same day as it was before...do you not understand that we are going to be keeping the same Sabbath day in eternity that is our duty to keep in the here and now?

The Sabbath has never changed nor has it been suspended, and I don't see why thinking Christians who argue to the contrary can possibly be satisfied with such inconsistency in their scholarship.

Seeing as we are not under the law, it is NOT our duty to keep the letter of the law.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why are you limiting the Sabbath to being only a sign of the OC when it is clearly a sign to all those who are sanctified by God? "..that they may know that I am the Lord that doth SANCTIFY them." Again, the Sabbath was made for M-A-N, not J-E-W.

The Sabbath is the sign of the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant. And it has a different sign. And not a day.

 

[CharismaticLady]

OK, I'll let Jesus do it:

"He that is not with Me is against Me".

"If ye love Me, keep My commandments" - "His Ten Commandments" which He spoke at Sinai, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV.

Those are the Commandments that Jesus taught, not the ones on Mt. Sinai. Those from Mt. Sinai are called the Fathers Commandments.

John 15:10.
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Brakelite]

You've memorized it backwards to say what you want it to say. It actually says,

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Christ fulfilled it.

The whole law has not yet been fulfilled. The day of atonement is not complete. Christ hasn't left the sanctuary. The Feast of Tabernacles hasn't been celebrated. That's in the new earth. So this fulfillment you're speaking of, sorry, Christ has only fulfilled Passover, first fruits, and pentecost. They were the spring festivals that Christ met. The autumn festivals beginning with feast of trumpets are not complete. A way to go yet

 

[Brakelite]

That is what makes these self-righteous carnally-minded posers of great Sabbath-keeping holiness so repulsive

careful. You are speaking of your brothers and sisters here. Oh, and the millions of Sabbath keepers through modem history, many of whom were martyred for their faith, and the millions who are currently of that mind. You are letting your emotions run away with you and your frontal lobe has gone AWOL.

 

[robert derrick]

careful. You are speaking of your brothers and sisters here. Oh, and the millions of Sabbath keepers through modem history, many of whom were martyred for their faith, and the millions who are currently of that mind. You are letting your emotions run away with you and your frontal lobe has gone AWOL.

"The ten commandments... are still an active...Calling them holy, just, and good. Calling sin by it's right name. Calling upon everyone everywhere to repent and forsake disobedience. Obedience was optional... But the reward of the disobedient remained constant. Eternal damnation."

"OK, I'll let Jesus do it: "He that is not with Me is against Me". "If ye love Me, keep My commandments" - "His Ten Commandments"

I completely deny Sabbath keeping as law of Christ. I have never and will never as a Christian be compelled to keep a 'Sabbath' in obedience to a law.

And you call me your brother or sister?

 

[robert derrick]

The whole law has not yet been fulfilled. The day of atonement is not complete. Christ hasn't left the sanctuary. The Feast of Tabernacles hasn't been celebrated. That's in the new earth. So this fulfillment you're speaking of, sorry, Christ has only fulfilled Passover, first fruits, and pentecost. They were the spring festivals that Christ met. The autumn festivals beginning with feast of trumpets are not complete. A way to go yet

Your quote: "Jesus said He didn't come to change the law."

Jesus came not to destroy the law. But He has changed it (Heb 7:12)

 

[robert derrick]

For them OSAS is the myth that it is.

You're sliding around. I just want to know what you believe, and if I understand you correctly.

Such as, you believe once saved sin no more, and therefore any who are 'truly' saved will be saved in the end, because they sin no more, as in transgressions of the law of Christ, and committing iniquities, and returning to the old life of before in any manner.

And so, you say 'OSAS' is a myth, in that they who hold this acronym excuse sin by grace.

Is this correct?

 

[Brakelite]

I completely deny Sabbath keeping as law of Christ.

Two questions.
A. Who stood with Moses on Sinai and wrote with His finger on stone?
B. What is this epistle on the heart that is equated with what was written on stone?

 

[theefaith]

Not being faithful to the Scriptures, you wouldn't understand the difference between quoting Scripture and putting out foolish human reasoning.

There is no Scripture that speaks of 'low' priests in Christ. Now, I am sure in your Catholic religion of men's catechisms that there be plenty of talk about your 'low' priests. And I would agree, your 'low' priests are low indeed.

Then you are attacking Christ as the high priest?

 

[theefaith]

Only a Catholic man can be a Catholic father in the Catholic religion.

But in the pure religion of the body of Christ, all members thereof are made priest and kings to God by the blood of the Lamb. (Rev 1) We all are a holy priesthood (1 Peter 2) with our high Priest Jesus.

You know who the law priests are. Your priests in your Catholic religion, as you have said many times. They are the low priests in high places (Eph 6:12).

And that's fine by me. It matters not. There are plenty of religions of the world made by man, and they are all different. There's the Jews' religion, the Catholic religion, the Muslim religion. The lumped together religion of various cults, such as Unitarians, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, etc...

And many of them that are not fanatical in their false religion and make decent neighbors, and I have no problem with them, neither do I try to give them problem, but be neighborly.

It's only you fanatics who can't just stick to your own religion, but rather go out of your way to proselytize people that make yourselves odious.

thou art a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek