Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[CharismaticLady]

KJV 1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
KJV John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Totally agree. We are to keep Jesus' Commandments. And John tells us,
KJV 1 John 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The question though, when everyone realizes our inherent weaknesses and inabilities to obey anything in our own strength, what are we to do? How can we obey, which is clearly and succinctly started throughout the scriptures, when we cannot hope to because of our human sinful fleshly carnal state?
Paul tells us.
KJV Romans 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now that's great. Thing is though, we are still carnal. Love for us in our carnal state is utterly perverted and evil. The modern version of love is displayed in our Mardi gras and our televisions on a daily basis. It is foul and contemptible.
So it cannot be our love. It's got to come from outside of us. Just as salvation and sanctification and everything else must come from above, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
It is our receiving of Christ Himself through His Spirit that we receive His love, that we can then express through our actions... Then we fulfill all the requirements of the law.
Once we have Christ in us, everything we do springs from His love and His grace and power that we through faith embrace.
We keep the spirit of the law through love, we keep the letter of the law through default.
But what of the Sabbath? That's different isn't it? It's still part of the same law, but keeping the Spirit of the Sabbath, resting in Christ, does not automatically result in the keeping of the letter does it? So why is the Sabbath there? This predicament wasn't any different for Israel. They also were obligated to keep the Sabbath, but their obedience contributed to their salvation no more than it does for us. They also were told, the just shall live by faith. It is our faith that rests in Christ who then works in and through us to sanctify and make us holy. It was no different for Israel. They quickly discovered that in their own strength they could not obey. Before Moses was returned from Sinai, just a few days after Israel had declared, "all that the Lord has said, we will do", they were dancing naked around a golden idol.
Abraham we are told kept all God's Commandments, laws, statutes. (Genesis 26). But he also believed God... Which was accounted to him for righteousness. Abraham is our father if we have his faith and if that faith results in the same obedience. So faith does not remove the commandments. Neither does love. The law stands and will continue to stand throughout all eternity. But the Sabbath, that isn't a moral law as such. It's different. Most societies will develop a set of laws more or less similar to the other 9 commandments. But they will never, not in a million years, create a law that obliges them to rest a particular specific day. That law came by Revelation... It is based solely on God's preeminent authority saying, remember to keep My day holy. It was absolutely a sign of Israel's willingness to accept God's sovereignty and authority in their lives. And it was the same for all those who chose to join Israel being strangers. They also were then called to observe the Sabbath. Surrendering to the God of Israel in submission.
That is the decision for the Christian today. Who is your authority? Christ? Or the church who established Sunday? Christ, or yourself who imagine excuses such as "Jesus is my Sabbath rest" imagining that such fulfills the 'Spirit of the Sabbath' thus doing away the necessity of obeying the letter of the 4th Commandment. But it doesn't work that way for the Sabbath. The Sabbath is something you must choose to obey because you recognise God's authority in your life. It's still a sign of allegiance... As it was for Israel, so it is for the stranger now joined to Israel and no longer strangers.
KJV Exodus 20:10
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:



KJV Romans 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

KJV Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

It is not through our own power that we love in God's love, agape love. This is why the New Covenant is for those who have repented of their carnality and been born again of the Holy Spirit inside us. I didn't have that experience of becoming born again for the first 30 years of my life. I was 23 when I left the SDA church, and never was taught what that meant, and was in the Church of Christ for one year, when they taught me grace, but I finally learned that grace, which supersedes the law, was not as the Church of Christ taught it. It is the divine power of God that the New Covenant is based on through Christ's death on the cross. 2 Peter 1:2-4

What SDA taught was that Jesus came to take away the punishment for sin. And in a way, so did the Church of Christ. But what Scripture actually says is that Jesus came to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, not just the punishment. But to free us from all desire to sin, cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

Yes, you are right; the 7th day Sabbath can only be kept by the letter of the law, but we find that we are no longer under the the letter, but the Spirit. Those who try to be saved by keeping the letter of the law, have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4. So we must open our hearts to find what is the Spirit of a physical law about the Sabbath that has nothing to do with the letter. To do that we must look at other physical laws that we now KNOW what is the spiritual meaning. The physical act of cutting the flesh in circumcision is now of the heart. But not physically cutting out the heart, but turning to God.

Jeremiah 4:
“If you will return, O Israel,” says the Lord,
“Return to Me;
And if you will put away your abominations out of My sight,
Then you shall not be moved.
2 And you shall swear, ‘The Lord lives,’
In truth, in judgment, and in righteousness;
The nations shall bless themselves in Him,
And in Him they shall glory.”

3 For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem:

“Break up your fallow ground,
And do not sow among thorns.
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord,
And take away the foreskins of your hearts,
You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
Lest My fury come forth like fire,
And burn so that no one can quench it,
Because of the evil of your doings.”

Romans 2:
27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Thus the same can be said of keeping a physical day to outwardly worship God. The Spirit of worship is total trust in God and not approaching Him once a week, but abiding in Him and He is us as we BECOME ONE all the time. Total rest in Christ abiding in us is outwardly not being anxious for anything, and letting Him fill us with Himself. Those that accomplish this rest love one another and love God with all their heart. 1 John 3:23-24. And He in turn answers all our prayers as we want nothing but to please God and doing nothing that the conscience of our new divine nature checks our spirit not to do. 1 John 3:21-22. And to do those things He leads us to do for one another in love. Keeping a physical day, even Sunday, is still the letter of the law and profits you nothing. It cannot be from law that we fellowship together, but loving our brethren daily. And all the more as we see the "day" approaching - the day of the Lord's return.

 

[CharismaticLady]

you keep saying osas can give a license to sin, or that some teach it. When it’s not true. Paul refuted the notion.

Of course it isn't true, but even then that is what some taught. Jude 1:4. And I've even heard a few on the forums speak the same nonsense, so some denomination is teaching it. I don't know which one, and stay away from any that teach OSAS.

being justified by Christ is just that, being justified (declaired righteous or in right standing) by Christ continually. While according to the law you are still a sinner,

Jesus saves us fro. The penalty of sin, and in doing so. Proves his perfect love. So that we who are dead are made alive, we then in turn love because he first loved us

the power over sin is love, not law. The power over sin is humility and grace. not trying to live up to some standard. The power over sin is the knowledge we have eternal life (OSAS) and by this knowledge we can continue to believe, because he continually loves us, so we can love him and others,

"While according to the law you are still a sinner." Does that mean a Christian is still a sinner, but without punishment? Isn't that just what you say it isn't? A license to sin?

So how do we overcome sinning?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Surely you are aware of the following scriptue, so naturally it concerns me that you would act as if it wasn't there. I mean Christ is clearly stating, "Keep the commandments" then he gives a few examples. Then shortly after that, he gave his 2 commandments, in which all the law hangs, meaning all the law is contained within his 2 commandments.

It's not just you, but it worries me when people in general use the fact Jesus gave his two commandments to us, to prove we no longer need to be concerned about tbe ten, when it is clear, the new commandments, if we follow them, we will be following the ten, not doing away with them.

IOW, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." one of Christs 2 commandments basically means if we love our neighbor as ourselves , we will not steal, kill, lie, commit adultry, and so forth against them.

Matthew 19:16-17
King James Version

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And how would you keep the Sabbath except by the letter of the law?

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, he does not take away our ability to sin....not even close. He may cause us to not want to sin because of the great sacrifice he made for us, that showed us how much he loved us, but I assure you, just because we are saved doesnt mean anyone will stop sinning completely. Sin is expected by God , and the only reason Christ/God saw to it there was a ultimate sacrifice for sin.

Jesus said that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. Is that how He left us? Really? He also said that those slaves will not have eternal life. So are you sure you know what you're talking about, especially if anyone reads what you teach?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course it isn't true, but even then that is what some taught. Jude 1:4. And I've even heard a few on the forums speak the same nonsense, so some denomination is teaching it. I don't know which one, and stay away from any that teach OSAS.

Jude 1: 4 is not OSAS. They do not believe in salvation by grace through faith. They teach we can come to the church and live however we want. and try to bring everyone into our sin lives with us,

"While according to the law you are still a sinner." Does that mean a Christian is still a sinner, but without punishment? Isn't that just what you say it isn't? A license to sin?
So how do we overcome sinning?

Paul said it is not a license to sin. So why are you continuing to call it a license to sin?

How do we overcome sin? We love BECAUSE he first loved us.

 

[Gregory]

Truly to teach the gospel all we need is the Holy Spirit . But yeah i know that many folks under the RCC and etc
have long run the show . very dangerous times my friend . But we have Christ and HE is all we need .
Let us follow the Lord and Heed the Spirit and learn our bibles well my friend .

If all we need is the Holy Spirit, why is there 3000 Christian churches all teaching contrary doctrines. If all we need is the Holy Spirit, why did Jesus set up apostles and prophets to do the baptizing and giving of the Holy Spirit, and growing the churches and calling bishops, and elders, and deacons etc.
I suspect you take this position because, even though the bible has all these offices, and the apostles are even the foundation of the first century church, per the bible, your church does not have these offices, and so you stick to the protestant position of we don't need them because we have the Holy Spirit, and all you need is the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, apparently that was not good enough for Jesus, who set apostles and prophets in his church to perfect his members, to work in the ministry of salvation, and to bring the fuller truth about Christ (they being eye witnesses). Apparently with the organization + the Holy Spirit, this was the combination that worked for Jesus.

 

[Gregory]

CharismaticLady said:

Thus the same can be said of keeping a physical day to outwardly worship God. The Spirit of worship is total trust in God and not approaching Him once a week, but abiding in Him and He is us as we BECOME ONE all the time.

Do you not yearn to be with those that believe like you do once a week to strengthen your resolve to be in Christ and give you solitude and support as you worship outwardly at least once a week? Can you really do it by yourself. You know from reading the bible that is not how Jesus wanted it.

The bible talks a lot about how the first century church met often together to break bread and praise God. Come and join us and enjoy worshiping God outwardly.

 

[TheslightestID]

why did you cut off the conversation?

I cut off nothing, I quoted all that was necessary, the fact Christ told him to keep the commandments.

All that extra you added is not what Christ said, it was made up.

In short, my comment was biblical, and yours was not.

 

[TheslightestID]

And how would you keep the Sabbath except by the letter of the law?

I would keep it by doing as the commandment states...how would you keep it?

 

[TheslightestID]

Jesus said that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. Is that how He left us? Really? He also said that those slaves will not have eternal life. So are you sure you know what you're talking about, especially if anyone reads what you teach?

Are you actually saying to sin occasionally, then ask forgiveness, makes us a slave to sin?

There is a big difference between practicing sin, and trying to live a Godly life, and sinning occasionally.

 

[Brakelite]

Once again, that was written to saved Jews

He was speaking of the church. The next verse says,
KJV 1 Peter 2:10
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Unless you want to believe that Israel was not a people previous, but are now the people of God? That would make no sense.

 

[Brakelite]

It is not through our own power that we love in God's love, agape love. This is why the New Covenant is for those who have repented of their carnality and been born again of the Holy Spirit inside us. I didn't have that experience of becoming born again for the first 30 years of my life. I was 23 when I left the SDA church, and never was taught what that meant, and was in the Church of Christ for one year, when they taught me grace, but I finally learned that grace, which supersedes the law, was not as the Church of Christ taught it. It is the divine power of God that the New Covenant is based on through Christ's death on the cross. 2 Peter 1:2-4

What SDA taught was that Jesus came to take away the punishment for sin. And in a way, so did the Church of Christ. But what Scripture actually says is that Jesus came to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, not just the punishment. But to free us from all desire to sin, cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

Yes, you are right; the 7th day Sabbath can only be kept by the letter of the law, but we find that we are no longer under the the letter, but the Spirit. Those who try to be saved by keeping the letter of the law, have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4. So we must open our hearts to find what is the Spirit of a physical law about the Sabbath that has nothing to do with the letter. To do that we must look at other physical laws that we now KNOW what is the spiritual meaning. The physical act of cutting the flesh in circumcision is now of the heart. But not physically cutting out the heart, but turning to God.

Jeremiah 4:
“If you will return, O Israel,” says the Lord,
“Return to Me;
And if you will put away your abominations out of My sight,
Then you shall not be moved.
2 And you shall swear, ‘The Lord lives,’
In truth, in judgment, and in righteousness;
The nations shall bless themselves in Him,
And in Him they shall glory.”

3 For thus says the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem:

“Break up your fallow ground,
And do not sow among thorns.
4 Circumcise yourselves to the Lord,
And take away the foreskins of your hearts,
You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem,
Lest My fury come forth like fire,
And burn so that no one can quench it,
Because of the evil of your doings.”

Romans 2:
27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Thus the same can be said of keeping a physical day to outwardly worship God. The Spirit of worship is total trust in God and not approaching Him once a week, but abiding in Him and He is us as we BECOME ONE all the time. Total rest in Christ abiding in us is outwardly not being anxious for anything, and letting Him fill us with Himself. Those that accomplish this rest love one another and love God with all their heart. 1 John 3:23-24. And He in turn answers all our prayers as we want nothing but to please God and doing nothing that the conscience of our new divine nature checks our spirit not to do. 1 John 3:21-22. And to do those things He leads us to do for one another in love. Keeping a physical day, even Sunday, is still the letter of the law and profits you nothing. It cannot be from law that we fellowship together, but loving our brethren daily. And all the more as we see the "day" approaching - the day of the Lord's return.

You know, there is so much wrong with your thinking, not only about what the church supposedly taught, but what motivates Adventists to keep the Sabbath. You may want to believe that we keep the Sabbath in order to be saved, because that would them give you an excuse for ignoring it yourself.
There's nothing wrong with obeying the letter of the law. What the Galatians were guilty of was that they were keeping the letter of the law in order to be saved. In fact, it's grace that empowers and motivates us to keep the letter of the law... Through love. We limit that grace by our unbelief. You limit the power to keep the Sabbath by your unbelief in the Commandment. Others limit grace by their unbelief in God's power to overcome all manner of sin. Which is what Adventists have been teaching for 170 years.
You make excuses. You search for theological reasons to forget, when the commandments says remember. You make up reasons to justify setting aside a pagan day instead, pretending that the Sabbath has lost its sacredness. Tell me. Where did the holiness of the Sabbath go that was place upon it at creation?
You said we can't keep the Sabbath in the spirit. In one sense that's correct, as I pointed out. But as Jesus said, upon the commandments to love God with all your heart and soul, mind and body, and your neighbor as yourself, hang all the law and the prophets. In other words, the law falls flat without love. You said so yourself. Love motivates us to honor parents, and do good and not evil to our neighbor. Love motivates us to keep God's name sacred. To shun idols.
Love motivates us to want to obey Him in all things. Christians today will say, God, by sending His loving Spirit into my heart, inspired me to go to the shop and buy a blanket for a homeless man. And praise God for that. And no-one accuses him if obeying the letter of the law to be saved. But then they make excuses when they read in the scripture, remember to keep holy My Sabbath day. What happened to their love then? Oh. People only do that to be saved. Yeah right.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jude 1: 4 is not OSAS. They do not believe in salvation by grace through faith. They teach we can come to the church and live however we want. and try to bring everyone into our sin lives with us,


Paul said it is not a license to sin. So why are you continuing to call it a license to sin?

How do we overcome sin? We love BECAUSE he first loved us.

Because it is not Paul, but us. Paul tried to correct that thinking, but some do not understand. They are like Martin Luther who wrote, "even if you commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day, it will not separate you from God." Even though that was an exaggeration, the point was made that we will sin, but nothing will separate us from God. That is a lie, a doctrine of demons. Jesus took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin. It is not just covered up and imputed righteousness is given to us like some teach to their shame. There is no sin in the divine nature of Jesus which He gives to those whom He makes reborn.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I would keep it by doing as the commandment states...how would you keep it?

What New Covenant commandment would that be?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Are you actually saying to sin occasionally, then ask forgiveness, makes us a slave to sin?

There is a big difference between practicing sin, and trying to live a Godly life, and sinning occasionally.

Why do you have to "try" when our new nature naturally obeys. There is no struggle. Besides there is practicing righteousness, but not practicing sin except when added.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You make up reasons to justify setting aside a pagan day instead, pretending that the Sabbath has lost its sacredness. Tell me. Where did the holiness of the Sabbath go that was place upon it at creation?

You know I never said any such thing. Setting aside a pagan day, I assume you mean Sunday, would still be keeping the letter of the law. We have no such command except to rest in Christ. How often? Once a week? NO! Abide in Him and He in us is the Spiritual meaning of the Sabbath day.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The problem with Adventists is they don't know that we are not under the Old Covenant. Exodus 34:28. You also believe that the laws written on our heart are the Ten Commandments, instead of the eternal laws they were fashioned after. To Love God with all our heart, mind and spirit, and Love our neighbor as ourself." The Ten Commandments were made to be able to be kept by the flesh, and that is why they could never make anyone righteous. But the eternal laws written on our hearts to LOVE does.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

 

[Brakelite]

You know I never said any such thing. Setting aside a pagan day, I assume you mean Sunday, would still be keeping the letter of the law. We have no such command except to rest in Christ. How often? Once a week? NO! Abide in Him and He in us is the Spiritual meaning of the Sabbath day.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The problem with Adventists is they don't know that we are not under the Old Covenant. Exodus 34:28. You also believe that the laws written on our heart are the Ten Commandments, instead of the eternal laws they were fashioned after. To Love God with all our heart, mind and spirit, and Love our neighbor as ourself." The Ten Commandments were made to be able to be kept by the flesh, and that is why they could never make anyone righteous. But the eternal laws written on our hearts to LOVE does.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

2 Corinthians 3 is the critic’s go-to when they want to claim that the Ten Commandments have been abolished, but a closer examination of each text in question reveals a different story.
Before speaking of what has been abolished, Paul actually establishes the Ten Commandments by revealing that the Corinthians are living examples of what the New Covenant looks like in living form. They are the epistle because, as the New Covenant promised, the Ten Commandments have been written in their hearts (cf. verses 1-3, Jer. 31:33). In other words, far from being abolished, they are reestablished in a better location, from tables of stone to “fleshy table of the heart” (verse 3). Keep in mind that we are literally talking about the Ten Commandments here, because that is the allusion when the text speaks about “tables of stone.”
So what was abolished? Read the text carefully...
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

It isn't the law, it was the ministration associated with it. But first, what is the heart in verse 3? What does the text mean by the heart? Not the literal organ of course. The heart represents the mind, the seat of all thoughts, intellect, passions, desires, affections and endeavors. The mind is what makes who we are in person and character, and dictates our actions in the physical realm. “For as he thinketh in his heart” says the wise man, “so is he” (Prov. 23:7). So then, if the Law was written in their hearts, it has become a natural part of their very being. One need not tell them to avoid stealing, killing or lying. They know the Law, their very impulse, so long as they continue submitted to the Spirit, is to obey God. Their lives demonstrate it’s precepts to the whole world as if they were living, walking, and talking epistles. People can read the Law in their lives and character. They are “known and read by all men.” How then, pray tell, has the Ten Commandments been abolished? Any thinking man with reasoning powers can see that such a claim flies in the face of the very point that Paul is trying to make here!
Two things are mentioned as done away with here, the ministration of that which was engraved on stone, along with the glory that was shining on the face of Moses. The latter was replaced by Christ’s more glorious face, according to verses 13-18. But what does Paul mean by “ministration?” The word holds the original meaning of service towards others. Note that it was not the Decalogue itself, but the ministration of it, or the then instituted manner of teaching and enforcing it, that was abolished, to be succeeded by the ministration of the same Law by the apostles and the Spirit (3:3, 4:1)! It is like taking a man from point A to point B on a bike versus taking him on a car. The car is the better, faster way. But changing the mode of transportation does not change the man being transported. Whereas before of their own strength the people sought to reach the standard of the moral precepts of the Decalogue, now God takes His people there by using His Spirit to write the Ten Commandments in their hearts.

I might remind you also, that the 'letter that killeth' part only applies to those who disobey the law, not those who keep it. Now let's take the 7th Commandment. Does refusing to lie with your neighbor for lack of opportunity mean you've kept the Commandment if you lust after him? Does the absence of anger make you innocent if you kill a man? You see, you need both, and neither did away with the actual Commandment, for as Paul says,
KJV Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say the law is done away with. On the contrary,
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The 4th Commandment is no exception, you still need to keep the letter of the law as you do with all the other Commandments. You just need to have that complete submissive relationship with Jesus and allow Him to write the whole law and not just 9 of them.

 

[Brakelite]

You know I never said any such thing. Setting aside a pagan day, I assume you mean Sunday, would still be keeping the letter of the law. We have no such command except to rest in Christ. How often? Once a week? NO! Abide in Him and He in us is the Spiritual meaning of the Sabbath day.

Fair enough. I find it fascinating though that non Sabbatarians can't agree why they don't keep the Sabbath.
Some day you can keep any day if the 7.
Others say that Sunday is now the Lord's day. ,
Others say every day is God's day.
Others, like yourself, give it a spiritual rendering as if that negates the actual Commandment.
You still are obligated to keep the letter of the law. As I said above, if you're walking in the spirit, and Christ has written His laws on your heart, you won't lust or get angry etc etc. But you won't physically commit adultery either and you won't punch folk in the nose if they upset you. If you're not keeping the letter of the law regarding the Sabbath, them your not keeping the spirit of that law either. Even though you might like to think so.

 

[CharismaticLady]

2 Corinthians 3 is the critic’s go-to when they want to claim that the Ten Commandments have been abolished, but a closer examination of each text in question reveals a different story.
Before speaking of what has been abolished, Paul actually establishes the Ten Commandments by revealing that the Corinthians are living examples of what the New Covenant looks like in living form. They are the epistle because, as the New Covenant promised, the Ten Commandments have been written in their hearts (cf. verses 1-3, Jer. 31:33). In other words, far from being abolished, they are reestablished in a better location, from tables of stone to “fleshy table of the heart” (verse 3). Keep in mind that we are literally talking about the Ten Commandments here, because that is the allusion when the text speaks about “tables of stone.”
So what was abolished? Read the text carefully...
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

It isn't the law, it was the ministration associated with it. But first, what is the heart in verse 3? What does the text mean by the heart? Not the literal organ of course. The heart represents the mind, the seat of all thoughts, intellect, passions, desires, affections and endeavors. The mind is what makes who we are in person and character, and dictates our actions in the physical realm. “For as he thinketh in his heart” says the wise man, “so is he” (Prov. 23:7). So then, if the Law was written in their hearts, it has become a natural part of their very being. One need not tell them to avoid stealing, killing or lying. They know the Law, their very impulse, so long as they continue submitted to the Spirit, is to obey God. Their lives demonstrate it’s precepts to the whole world as if they were living, walking, and talking epistles. People can read the Law in their lives and character. They are “known and read by all men.” How then, pray tell, has the Ten Commandments been abolished? Any thinking man with reasoning powers can see that such a claim flies in the face of the very point that Paul is trying to make here!
Two things are mentioned as done away with here, the ministration of that which was engraved on stone, along with the glory that was shining on the face of Moses. The latter was replaced by Christ’s more glorious face, according to verses 13-18. But what does Paul mean by “ministration?” The word holds the original meaning of service towards others. Note that it was not the Decalogue itself, but the ministration of it, or the then instituted manner of teaching and enforcing it, that was abolished, to be succeeded by the ministration of the same Law by the apostles and the Spirit (3:3, 4:1)! It is like taking a man from point A to point B on a bike versus taking him on a car. The car is the better, faster way. But changing the mode of transportation does not change the man being transported. Whereas before of their own strength the people sought to reach the standard of the moral precepts of the Decalogue, now God takes His people there by using His Spirit to write the Ten Commandments in their hearts.

I might remind you also, that the 'letter that killeth' part only applies to those who disobey the law, not those who keep it. Now let's take the 7th Commandment. Does refusing to lie with your neighbor for lack of opportunity mean you've kept the Commandment if you lust after him? Does the absence of anger make you innocent if you kill a man? You see, you need both, and neither did away with the actual Commandment, for as Paul says,
KJV Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Nowhere does scripture say the law is done away with. On the contrary,
KJV Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The 4th Commandment is no exception, you still need to keep the letter of the law as you do with all the other Commandments. You just need to have that complete submissive relationship with Jesus and allow Him to write the whole law and not just 9 of them.

The letter still kills...

That is why we are not under the Old Covenant, nor its SIGN (Ex. 31:13)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Fair enough. I find it fascinating though that non Sabbatarians can't agree why they don't keep the Sabbath.
Some day you can keep any day if the 7.
Others say that Sunday is now the Lord's day. ,
Others say every day is God's day.
Others, like yourself, give it a spiritual rendering as if that negates the actual Commandment.
You still are obligated to keep the letter of the law. As I said above, if you're walking in the spirit, and Christ has written His laws on your heart, you won't lust or get angry etc etc. But you won't physically commit adultery either and you won't punch folk in the nose if they upset you. If you're not keeping the letter of the law regarding the Sabbath, them your not keeping the spirit of that law either. Even though you might like to think so.

I abide in Him, and He in me. Question: Do you receive everything you pray for because you keep the Sabbath by the letter of the law? I do, because I keep the commandments of Jesus' Spirit. 1 John 3:22