What is implied here

[MatthewG]

@thefaith are you linking this verses from Luke 1:26-49 at what was written in Revelation 12:1 -> Is pointing back to Christ?

Last night went and read some of the Revelation and when it comes down to some things I think about it refering back to the Gospels so the people in that time would be able to go and source out what was being talked about in Letter from John.

 

[theefaith]

what need has she of salvation if she is sinless?

o but the RCC does call her co-saviour. Ba'al & his Asherah. Zeus + Hera. Ra + Isis.

let me teach you something, for your sake:

Then the multitude came together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.
But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.”
(Mark 3:20-21)​

there was a time when Mary did not believe. so much for her immaculacy, eh?

come out of Babylon, and be free

preserved from sin is still saved from sin by God in virtue of the merits of her divine son

we have to doctrine of co-savior
Mother of our salvation yes

Mk 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

does not say Mary try again

perpetual Virgin and mother of God yes

 

[post]

Lk 1:28 full of grace

Grace indicates that sin is passed over. The one without sin has no need to receive grace.

 

[post]

Mk 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

does not say Mary try again

Keep reading..

Mark 3:31-33
Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You." But He answered them, saying, "Who is My mother, or My brothers?"

 

[post]

perpetual Virgin

What?
Jesus's brothers were also born by the Holy Spirit?

Mark 3:31-33
Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You." But He answered them, saying, "Who is My mother, or My brothers?"

 

[theefaith]

The powerful One is Jehovah, the great deeds was His impregnating Mary. She was clearly happy and blessed as out of all the women on the earth, she had the privilege of bearing God's son, the foretold Messiah. What a privilege that will go down in eternal history.

I agree the miraculous conception of Jesus by the HS
But it says “things” plural

what else could it be?

 

[theefaith]

Grace indicates that sin is passed over. The one without sin has no need to receive grace.

See how fundamentalism is spiritual blindness

preserved from
All sin is saved from sin by grace to be the mother of our salvation

 

[theefaith]

Keep reading..

Mark 3:31-33
Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You." But He answered them, saying, "Who is My mother, or My brothers?"

but those who said he is beside himself were not his mother and brothers

and he is glorifying his mother

Lk 1:45

 

[theefaith]

What?
Jesus's brothers were also born by the Holy Spirit?

Mark 3:31-33
Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You." But He answered them, saying, "Who is My mother, or My brothers?"

Only Jesus was born both by the HS and only Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649) with the jurisdictional authority of Peter and the apostles in holy council! Matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 bound on earth bound in heaven!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (only Jesus is savior)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit!



Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

 

[Daniel Veler]

That's a tough one when the site is upholding free speech. But I agree. Perhaps a warning note or a red flag would help. There's also a lot of "clutter" in my estimation which could be removed.

If you know the truth why would false doctrine offend you. Call it out for what it is. To flag free speech is liberal thinking. It leaves it up to a moderator to determine what is true and what is false. Do you really want someone to do that?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The world's recognition of Mary as Jesus' mother and as being blessed has been received. Blessed means happy. We are all blessed to receive the Lord. She just received Him physically by the ordination of God, given a message from an angel that she had been chosen for a very special purpose. She served her purpose. Once Jesus started His ministry, her purpose had been fulfilled. Anything after that was minor in comparison, nor more significant than Mary Magdellan. Jesus gave perspective to this when He put His mom and brothers on an equal plane, saying "those who believe in and follow me are my mother's and brothers". He basically said is biologically family is no better than any one of His sheep. He lived his mom but we never see him lift her up. Jesus was the only one who was to be lifted up.
I have to say Jesus, Son of God, must have corrected her errors countless times. His parents lost him when he was 12 years old! They didn't realize he was missing for over a day and then headed back to Jerusalem. Jesus corrected his parents when they found him at the Temple (where he was correcting the elders, maybe the priest himself about their theology). "Didn't you know I was about my Father's business? No, they didn't.

She was enlightened to Who Jesus was but was not filled with the Spirit, she couldn't be, not until Pentecost, like everyone else, then she was spiritually born again.
Poor Mary, adorned by many, but only got 19 verses in the Bible. After Acts, she is not mentioned at all. Romans is considered a complete summation of Christian theology - yet Mary is not included there or in any of the remaining epistles. Were we supposed to lift her up as an idol, to recognize her as our "Heavenly Mother" and at least dedicate a partial focus in our prayers to heaven to her? The Bible does not imply anything like that. One would think a whole book dedicated to Mary would be included. Yes, Mary's whole story with many tales of Jesus growing up, but more importantly, an epistle, or "The gospel of Mary" as part of the Word from God, stating specifically that Mary is to be prayed to, honored, praised, worshipped and viewed as our heavenly Mother. Maybe it was lost or fiendishly destroyed by men? I would have like to read more about Jesus life growing up - it wasn't meant to be.
What a tragedy for Mary. The Word remains void of this idol. We just see Jesus as our primary focus. We pray to the Father, in Jesus' name that our orayers be answered by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Mary does not have omniscience, an ability to hear billions of prayers and answer them - which is what would be required to perform such a task.
Was she given this power? The Bible does not confirm this.
We have to ask ourselves, would any of us even desire that power, to hear billions of Hail Mary prayers (which are not really petitions, they aren't specific as to what the individual wants and needs, but just surrounded by the pains and sufferings of a sinful world. Would anyone in their right mind want that job?
Heaven is a place without sin, a final resting place void of sin and evil, even without the knowledge of pain and suffering happening on earth. Those in heaven are separated from that. Otherwise they would be depressed, crying, sympathizing with us, hence there would be no peace up there until it was all over. Maybe she just comforts the ones in Purgatory? That's another topic though, I'll leave that none alone.
Mary is up there in peace, like everyone else. Christ wipes all the tears away so we are for ever separated from evil in every way.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I agree the miraculous conception of Jesus by the HS
But it says “things” plural

what else could it be?

Yes sir it is, the verse previous mentioned that all generations would pronounce her happy. There is no doubt in my mind that Mary was an exemplary servant of Jehovah. Out of the entire world of women, and even among the women of Jehovah's people, He chose her. Is there any doubt in your mind that He had done many things for her? Is there any Christian you know that does not think that God has not bestowed many blessings on them?

I simply explained that one verse to you, and clearly those things are not itemized in that verse, but there is no doubt that Mary received many blessings from God, is there?

 

[theefaith]

Yes sir it is, the verse previous mentioned that all generations would pronounce her happy. There is no doubt in my mind that Mary was an exemplary servant of Jehovah. Out of the entire world of women, and even among the women of Jehovah's people, He chose her. Is there any doubt in your mind that He had done many things for her? Is there any Christian you know that does not think that God has not bestowed many blessings on them?

I simply explained that one verse to you, and clearly those things are not itemized in that verse, but there is no doubt that Mary received many blessings from God, is there?

the two things are the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus

Lk 3:2 the word of the Lord came unto John, did it come by scripture alone?

 

[Robert Gwin]

the two things are the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus

Lk 3:2 the word of the Lord came unto John, did it come by scripture alone?

Immaculate conception/ miraculous conception is the same thing sir. Those are terms used to indicate the way Jesus was sent to earth. Do you see it another way? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by those terms.

The Bible doesn't say what that word/declaration was that came to John, we simply see the results of it. He was moved to preach baptism in the area of the Jordan. John was prophesied to prepare the way for the Messiah, Faith. If you want an opinion, it was most likely that God sent an angel to inform John what to do, it was very unlikely that John discerned it by scripture, although the general populace did realize that it was the foretold time period for the Messiah to appear, as many thought that John might actually be him.
(Luke 3:15) . . .Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?”

 

[theefaith]

Immaculate conception/ miraculous conception is the same thing sir. Those are terms used to indicate the way Jesus was sent to earth. Do you see it another way? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by those terms.

The Bible doesn't say what that word/declaration was that came to John, we simply see the results of it. He was moved to preach baptism in the area of the Jordan. John was prophesied to prepare the way for the Messiah, Faith. If you want an opinion, it was most likely that God sent an angel to inform John what to do, it was very unlikely that John discerned it by scripture, although the general populace did realize that it was the foretold time period for the Messiah to appear, as many thought that John might actually be him.
(Luke 3:15) . . .Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?”

still the word and revelation are not limited to the Bible alone as the Protestant heresy says

no you’re confused
The immaculate conception is the conception of Mary in Her mothers womb without sin, the miraculous conception is of Jesus by the HS in Mary’s womb

 

[Robert Gwin]

still the word and revelation are not limited to the Bible alone as the Protestant heresy says

no you’re confused
The immaculate conception is the conception of Mary in Her mothers womb without sin, the miraculous conception is of Jesus by the HS in Mary’s womb

Thanks for clarifying that. Mary was a sinner. She was impregnated by the holy spirit so you are correct about Jesus

 

[theefaith]

Thanks for clarifying that. Mary was a sinner. She was impregnated by the holy spirit so you are correct about Jesus

where does the Bible say Mary was a sinner?

your attacking Christ
And scripture
Gen 3:15 enmity total war none of satan’s works are found in her
Lk 1:28 full of grace
Blessed
The Lord is with Her
What kind of savior has mother who is a sinner? Can’t he preserve her from all sin
Satan would accuse this of our savior, no way
Rev 12:1 clothed with the sun or immaculate purity

 

[Enoch111]

where does the Bible say Mary was a sinner?

When someone admits that they need a Savior, it follows that they see themselves in need of salvation because of sin. So here is what Mary said in Luke 1:46,47: And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mary was any different than Joseph, Elisabeth, or Zacharias. They were all descended from Adam, and as a result all needed a Savior (even if they had lived blameless lives).

At the same time, because of Christ's supernatural conception by the power of the Holy Spirit, and the virgin birth, Christ was the only human being who was not tainted with the sin nature. He has fully sinless Man as well as fully God.

 

[theefaith]

When someone admits that they need a Savior, it follows that they see themselves in need of salvation because of sin. So here is what Mary said in Luke 1:46,47: And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that Mary was any different than Joseph, Elisabeth, or Zacharias. They were all descended from Adam, and as a result all needed a Savior (even if they had lived blameless lives).

At the same time, because of Christ's supernatural conception by the power of the Holy Spirit, and the virgin birth, Christ was the only human being who was not tainted with the sin nature. He has fully sinless Man as well as fully God.

gen 3:15 enmity total war none of his works are in her
Satan never accused Christ of having a sinner for a mother
Lk 1:28 full of grace

 

[theefaith]

Rev 12:1 clothed with the sun immaculate purity

created without sin is still saved by her son