Freedom To Sin

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Michiah-Imla

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Legalists do not preach GRACE.... they preach works...

"…be rich in good works" (1 Timothy 6:18)

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." (Titus 3:8)

"…they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." (Acts 26:20)

Lots of works being preached in scripture as well…
 

marks

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Holiness is not something that can be TAUGHT..... that is the problem... Holiness is a condition of the heart... and how one approaches God.

He does not desire our sacrifice... HE desires our love... HOLINESS is a by-product of an intimate relationship with Christ.

You would have more success trying to teach someone how to be a hamburger... Just saying...LOL
I quite agree! You cannot learn to be holy, like you can learn to be a pilot. You can only learn about holiness. Like studying a Flight Manuel but never getting into a plane.

Like learning about love, but trashing everyone you meet!

But I think you are right here, that real holiness is a by-product of intimacy with God.

The more we come to see Him, the more we will be like Him. The more we come to know His love for us, and our need for Him, the more devoted we will be towards Him, and the more convinced we will be that His Ways are right.

Holiness is being set apart for God. That God is Holy is to say that He NEVER deviates from His goodness. That His goodness is complete and absolute, and NEVER changes.

I'm spent a lot of time meditating on the expression, the beauty of His holiness.

To me, this is the beauty of God's holiness, that it is absolute and unending. That God is Love, eternally. That God is Righteous, eternally. That He always does what is good, nothing left out, never what is bad.

Unchangeable. And in His unchangeability is where I find my security.

And in truth we can read that in the Bible, and accept it's reality in faith, and begin to live that way, in God's truth. But I think you are right, that we really come to know holiness by coming to know God.

Much love!
 

farouk

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So the Holy Spirit has no more work to do in us after we are saved? It is not about being worthy to escape, But about being fruitful Spiritually. Please read John 15.
Indeed the Holy Spirit works in believers; as quoted above: Philippians 1.6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

Eternal security is very assuring; for which there are many Scriptures.
 

farouk

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"…be rich in good works" (1 Timothy 6:18)

"This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men." (Titus 3:8)

"…they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." (Acts 26:20)

Lots of works being preached in scripture as well…
Ephesians 2.8-9 shows that works follow faith; they are not undertaken in order supposedly to make the person a believer in the end.
 

marks

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This is a perfect example of how you divert conviction from your own doctrines and place blame on the person trying to show you where you are going astray. deal with the topic and stop being offended and crying to the moderators. Be a man as the old saying goes, and fight your own battles.

Gotta go to work so I will read more later.
Don't try to make yourself a victim.

You are the one being a bully. Own up to it.
 

Ziggy

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I think if God didn't write his laws in our hearts and minds, then we would always be sinners.
Sin is the transgression of the law.
Who's law? Not Moses' law, God's law.

Jesus took all sin (all of our transgressions) and put it on himself. He took the wrath of God upon himself.
Now we have the Spirit of God within us.
No one is able to sin and not be convicted of it. (if you have been born again)
Otherwise one is knowingly and with determination, willfully disobeying what God has written in the heart and mind.

Do people sin? Yes, we all do but not necessarily intentionally, willfully.
At one point we were ignorant of those laws, but now that they are engraved in our hearts and minds,
those days of ignorance are gone.
And when we know that we have unwittingly, unintentionally, sinned.
Then we can go to the Lord and ask him to forgive us.
We have an advocate on our side. The greatest defence attorney of all time.

Grace.

But you can't just go out and ignorantly knowingly commit adultery. You already KNOW it's wrong.
Why? Because God's law written in your heart and mind says so.
And if you do then that brings conviction and guilt.
The only ones who don't feel guilt are those who are not born again.

You can't just walk away and not acknowledge it.
A lot of times we already know something is wrong and so we don't do it.
We can't do it. Because that would make us exceedingly guilty with no defence at all.

Do you lie?
Do you feel convicted if you know you lied?
Your not getting away with it. You are convicted.

Those not born again... they don't feel convicted. They can lie and think they got away with it.
It will come back to bite them.
And then they will feel the wrath of God upon them.

Jesus took the wrath of God upon himself for those who believe.
There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.
We condemn ourselves if we willingly sin deliberately.
Because we KNOW better.

GRACE covers our sin. Not the deliberate ones, but the unknowing and unwillful ones.
They happen sometimes. Not because we choose to, circumstances happen.
Sometimes we are led into them by deception.
We deceive ourselves.

But now we are without excuse.
Who here knows sin and does it willingly, deliberately, knowingly?
I don't think you can without conviction if you are born again.

thinking..
Hugs
 

marks

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This is the problem.... and you have hit the nail on the head.... legalism does NOT allow for the proper understanding of HOLINESS... Holiness is not about behaviour.... that is OBEDIENCE.... Holiness is a condition of the heart and it cannot be taught by any human... It is what occurs when the soul meets the SAVIOUR.... It is a surrendering of the heart.
A cleaving of our heart to the Lord's, if you will.

So if anyone tells you they are simply trying to teach holiness... what they are saying is I am keeping my list and checking it twice like Santa.

This is the difference between a man who HOVERS over his wife and DEMANDS submission from her... DECLARING himself HEAD of the HOUSEHOLD....what he gets is OBEDIENCE... he will NEVER achieve submission because that is a condition of the heart.

HOWEVER...the man who is madly in love with his wife..... serves her... dreams about her... lavishes her with his love... is devoted to her.... THAT man has a wife who will SUBMIT to him.

and those two examples are the difference between legalism and grace.

I think that's a good example. The devotion I feel toward my wife is the same sort of singleness of heart which is holiness when towards the Lord.

I have to admit . . . I continue to feel like I fall short in really being able to succinctly articulate holiness towards God. Obedience compared to submission is good I think!

Ephesians 5:22-23 KJV
22) Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23) For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Perhaps holiness describes just how true it is that Christ is our head.

Much love!
 

marks

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I Am just pointing you to your own words,
The thing is . . . you are not actually doing that.

You attribute to me, and to others, things which we haven't said, and don't think.

Things which we've, or, speaking again for my self, things I've I've affirmed to you countless times.

Your continuance in this repetition is nothing more than lying.
 

Addy

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One cannot focus on Jesus and sin at the same time.... THEREFORE.... focus on... think about... meditate upon.... pray to JESUS...WORSHIP...
That is what PLEASES HIM.
 

marks

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One cannot focus on Jesus and sin at the same time.... THEREFORE.... focus on... think about... meditate upon.... pray to JESUS...WORSHIP...
That is what PLEASES HIM.
Amen!!

I find that what we all want . . .what this thread is REALLY about . . . the freedom to live in righteousness . . . is found in the presence of God, in actively living unto God. That's how we are anyway.

We are right now in the personal immediate presence of our Creator, our Heavenly Father.

Psalms 139:11-13 KJV
11) If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
12) Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13) For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

"For" shows causal relationship. Because God made me, nothing about me is hidden from Him. I stand here right now transparent before Him. Every thought and inclination and every hidden thing is open and plain before His view.

He made me, He knows me, I cannot hide from Him.

Romans 6:10-12 KJV
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We've died in Christ, and now we are alive unto God. What that means to me is in embracing this idea that God knows me so fully, that God sees every secret and hidden thing, and understands fully about me. Like I can't even begin to understand!

Accepting by faith His complete forgiveness, His total reconciliation, required so we can be joined to Him in righteousness and holiness, this allows me to live actively in that light of God's presence.

The best way to flood others with love is to be flooded with God's love from Him.

The best way I know to receive the benefit of God's everlasting love in this present moment is to accept by faith that I am reconciled to God, and that based not on me, but on Jesus Christ. This opens my heart to Him, and that is what He does. When I walk in the Spirit, His fruit fills my life.

And while I know that we seem to experience growth in seeing the Holy Spirit's fruit in our lives, still, by trusting Jesus, we are able to love completely even now. We are able to have complete self control even now. For me, the key seems to be in the strength and consistency of my faith.

Total faith opens the door wide, and again, this is what God does, He pours into me His love.

This is my objection to @David H. 's teaching, and the source of his animosity towards me.

By faith, we can walk in the Spirit, living according to the Holy Spirit in our lives, now. If we will trust Him for it.

David claims there is coming a second Pentecost, and THEN, but NOT NOW, Christians will be able to really live the kind of life God wants for us. And particularly as this involves our unity with each other. But until there is this "second outpouring", nothing will break through our desire for good sounding doctrine that soothes us in our pride and hardness of heart, our unrepentance and defiance of God, while we claim His forgiveness. But all the while unwilling to change. That's his thinking.

That's what he attribute to me. I tell him he actually lacks any real knowledge about me, and is really unable to make such claims. And they aren't is to make anyway. And that he's actually got it wrong about me.

And he goes on making all the same accusations over and over.

And round and round we go.

But I DO love talking about Grace, and forgiveness of sins, and how this is what actually enables us to live holy lives. Not this fleshy insistence that "you'd better perform up to snuff or you just may be out on your ear!"

Someone who preaches that preaches against the cross.

Much love!

PS . . . sorry to go on so long! But I DO love these discussions!! And it's good for me, helps me keep my mind on track.
 
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Heart2Soul

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I Am preaching the Unity of the Spirit which comes from understanding that we know in part. Only then can God's love be perfected in us and through fellowship the fulness of Christ can begin to be grasped.
All gifts and callings to minister His Truth is nothing without love.
 
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Heart2Soul

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I will just go ahead and address this in the forum....those guilty of flaming and goading....which also means instigating strife by the words you choose to reply with are asked to reply in kindness and respect of the other member.
Those who keep replying to the ones flaming and goading are empowering them to continue to do so when you respond to their posts.
To come to a place of compromise I ask for all to stop flaming and goading....and to stop responding to the one who is flaming and goading.
Hereafter, a warning may become necessary if it continues....
Thank you, all of you....you guys are awesome members and i appreciate each contribution made by all.
God Bless
 

marks

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So the Holy Spirit has no more work to do in us after we are saved? It is not about being worthy to escape, But about being fruitful Spiritually. Please read John 15.
Just saw this, Are you asking this of me? Are you meaning to say I think God saves us and abandons us? Does nothing more? Is that what you mean? Let me know if I understand the question, and I will give you my answer.

Much love!
 

marks

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I will just go ahead and address this in the forum....those guilty of flaming and goading....which also means instigating strife by the words you choose to reply with are asked to reply in kindness and respect of the other member.
Those who keep replying to the ones flaming and goading are empowering them to continue to do so when you respond to their posts.
To come to a place of compromise I ask for all to stop flaming and goading....and to stop responding to the one who is flaming and goading.
Hereafter, a warning may become necessary if it continues....
Thank you, all of you....you guys are awesome members and i appreciate each contribution made by all.
God Bless
It's my thead, just close it, OK?

Much love!
 
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marks

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It's a good topic and has received a lot of responses...are you sure you want to close it?
I think there is a lot of good stuff here, and I've been having an edifying time on the most part.

I leave it with you.

Much love!
 
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Heart2Soul

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I think there is a lot of good stuff here, and I've been having an edifying time on the most part.

I leave it with you.

Much love!
I say leave it open....but it is your thread so up to you. :)
 
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marks

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Continuing on then in a nicer way . . .

Please let's all remember . . . speak to what you know, and of yourself, not others. We're here to talk about the teachings of the Bible, and not share our opinions of other people.

Remember bounderies, respect others, stay on point.

These are my requests.

Much love!
 
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