God changed Seventh Day Sabbath Worship to First Day of the Week

[BarneyFife]

Did you really just say that?

You admit you don't have any idea what your talking about, but you're sticking with your completely baseless opinion?

You don't have to be a linguist to know the difference between a declarative and an imperative statement. The words are basic 6th grade English, and the concept is something a 4 year old should grasp.

If I say 'don't do that' I have given you a command.

Insults aside, I do not interpret the text in question as a command. Believe what you will.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Why are you accusing God of adultery?

Why are you accusing God of adultery?

I don't say it, YOU do!
post said: ↑
clearly we as Christians are not under the law. the law was a marriage contract with the nation Israel. we are not Israel. so clearly all of you who say we are under the decalogue are preaching contrary to the word of God, and it is not by the Holy Spirit that you speak.

 

[Brakelite]

A Christian will continue to depend upon the "watchdog" of the law to reveal any deviations from the true path of righteousness and to point him or her back to the cleansing cross of Jesus. This mirror of correction will most certainly be needed in the progressive growth experience of the Christian.

Law and grace do not work in competition with one another, but rather they work in perfect cooperation. The law points out our sin, and grace saves from sin. The law is the will of God, and grace is the power to do the will of God. We do not obey the law in order to be saved; rather, we obey because we are saved. Revelation 14:12 says, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus.' What a perfect description of faith and works! And the combination is found in those who are "saints."

Our work of obedience is a true test of our love. This is why obedience is necessary in the experience of a true believer. "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20). No man ever won a woman's heart by words alone. Had there been no acts of devotion, no gifts of love, most men would still be searching for a companion. Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

A profession of your faith or mere words saying you love the Lord are not enough. The true evidence lies in a person's obedience. Today's bumper stickers reflect a shallow concept of love. They say, "Honk if you love Jesus," but Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). And that is exactly what most people don't want to do. They are glad to smile and say nice words, but if their lifestyle is disturbed, the majority will reject it. Unfortunately, most people today are not looking for truth. They are looking for a smooth, easy, comfortable religion that will allow them to live the way they please and still give them the assurance of salvation. Yet no true religion can do that for them.

One of the strongest texts in the Bible on this subject is found in 1 John 2:4. "He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." The apostle John could write that with such assurance because it is one of the most deeply established truths in the Bible. Jesus spoke of those who say, "Lord, Lord" but do not do the will of the Father. Then He described many who would seek entrance to the kingdom claiming to be workers of miracles in the name of Christ. But He would sorrowfully have to say, "I never knew you. Depart from me." (See Matthew 7:21-23).

You see, to know Christ is to love Him, and to love Him is to obey Him. The valid assumption of the Bible writers is very clear and simple: If one is not obeying Christ, he or she must not truly love Christ. John assured us, "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3). Thus, we can see how knowing and loving and obeying are all tied closely together and are absolutely inseparable in the life of God's faithful people. John summed it up in these words: "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).

Beautiful. Seriously, beautiful.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Beautiful. Seriously, beautiful.

Sure. Amen

I assume a Sunday Christian may say, pray, claim, the exact same. Seriously. I will not judge him. But I pray that I might show him his wrongness.

The thing is, will SABBATH Christians accept to be shown their wrongness in this very matter of truth and error?

I know from experience from both sides. But zip!

 

[Curtis]

The scripture doesn't say what you claim it says, that it's speaking to unbelievers. No. James said here, the law is for those transgressing it. That includes Christians, because that is who James is writing to here saying they need to keep the whole law, speaking specifically of the Ten Commandments... Surely not unbelievers...
KJV James 2:10-11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Seems that according to James, of you transgress in one commandment, you've transgressed the whole law. He's writing to the church. To you. And as you discard the 4th Commandment altogether, you certainly cannot lay claim to being righteous, as James describes righteousness...
KJV James 1:25
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

You’ve got it exactly backwards.

Paul wrote whole entire epistles against keeping the law of Moses as believers, such as Galatians.

 

[Brakelite]

My point isn't to accuse you. But to point out the method of or salvation is our dying with Christ and being raised by Him. This is not about what we 'do' but about what we believe.
Having died with Him we are not under the law. Romans 7 explicitly includes the decalogue in 'the law' - we are not under requirements to observe sabbath ritual cessation of activity or ritualistic congregation. We're simply not, and it's because we are dead, and that's how we have been saved. The very basis of our salvation precludes it.

If you are writing to me, you are not dead. I do presume, and hope, that it is the new man writing. But no where in scripture does it say the law died. You did once, but you were raised up in Christ. The law still lives, and our obligation to obey God in all things will never, ever be removed, rise God will cease to be God.

 

[Curtis]

The Children of Israel were just that--childlike--and needed their instructions to address the wrong they were already accustomed to doing. Not so with the Edenic pair. All they needed to understand rest was an example of it--which they got in Genesis 2:2-3. The command not to eat of the tree was different. It was designed strictly as a test of loyalty.

Besides all of this, Exodus 20 plainly declares the Sabbath as originating in Eden.

***And, by the way, an argument from silence is a logical fallacy. The observation that no one was positively commanded to keep the Sabbath before Exodus 16 means just what it says: Nothing.***

Arguing from silence is not a logical fallacy when the silence proves no one heard of, or kept any sabbath day command in Genesis..

Exodus 19 disproves your claim - Moses already told Israel all God commanded on the mountain, before Exodus 20. They didn’t get the law in Eden - besides the fact that Paul said in Galatians that the law was not given until 430 years after Abraham lived - that wrecks the claim they already had it in Eden.

Ex 19:7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.

Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

They hadn’t heard those words before then. D

And Deuteronomy 5, which is an account of the giving of the law and ten commands says two things that absolutely refute your assertion:

1. Moses told Israel THEY HAD TO LEARN the law and Decalogue, and do it - so it was new to them.

2. Moses said neither they OR THEIR FATHERS were given the law and commands given to them on the mountain.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears THIS DAY, that ye may LEARN THEM, and keep, and DO them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

They irrefutably did not have the law and commands until after the Exodus from Egyptian bondage,



Maranatha

 

[Curtis]

The undeniable fact is, though they obviously knew God rested one time on day seven, after 6 days of creation, neither they nor anyone else was ever commanded by God to also rest on the 7th day, until God gave it to Israel after their exodus from Egypt.

So being told to remember the sabbath, doesn’t prove it was already kept as a requirement (with the death penalty for breaking it, as the law requires).

God in fact never commanded anyone to keep the sabbath , until He gave it to Israel, as a memorial of remembrance of being set free from Egyptian slavery, after their Exodus, and as a covenant sign between the nation of Israel, and Himself:


Deu 5:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and Jehovah thy God brought thee out thence by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm: therefore Jehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.


REMEMBER that YOU (Israel) were slaves in Egypt and I took you out with a mighty hand. THEREFORE (because of your deliverance from Egyptian slavery) I gave YOU (Israel) this sabbath day command.


That wouldn’t be much of a memorial of REMEMBRANCE and a covenant SIGN - as God calls the sabbath day command in Exodus 31:13 - to give them a command that was ALREADY kept since the 6th day of creation, now would it?


Obviously not.


In fact Moses refutes the claim that any of their ancestors already had the sabbath day command, when he was about to give Israel the covenant law God gave to them, which includes the Decalogue:


Note the chapter heading in the Bible for this passage:


The Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may LEARN them, and observe to DO them.


Deu 5:2 Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.


Deu 5:3 Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us,even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


No one had the covenant law and ten commands until Moses received them after the Exodus from Egypt, as proven by Moses telling them THEY HAD TO LEARN THEM and then DO them, and said neither they nor their fathers had that law and commands until then.


Here’s the fact that the sabbath day command is a covenant sign only between God and the nation of Israel:


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily YE shall keep my sabbaths: for it is A SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that ye may know that I am Jehovah who sanctifieth YOU.

 

[post]

The spirit of Christ with-in me reminds me of the Lord being the Lord of the Sabbath.

You can rest in the Lord through like you suggest absolutely.

Remember the context of this statement.
He was being provoked by pharisees because His disciples were harvesting grain on sabbath, to eat for themselves.
He responded not by denying they were breaking sabbath but by giving two examples of men violating the letter of the law but still being righteous: David & his company eating shewbread and the priests in the temple "desecrating" ((God's own word)) every sabbath by working in the temple - as the law requires them to!

It is in THAT context that He says He is Lord of the sabbath. The context of a righteousness that supercedes the written commandment!

 

[post]

Insults aside, I do not interpret the text in question as a command. Believe what you will.

"do not let anyone judge you over a sabbath" is undeniably an imperative statement.

You can reject the truth but it doesn't change just because you deny it, and your private interpretation is less than worthless when you do.

All you are saying is you don't care if it's true.

 

[post]

If you are writing to me, you are not dead.

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.


Rejecting the scripture is the poorest argument you can make in a 'christian' forum.
Shoot me a PM if you ever regain any credibility

 

[Brakelite]

You’ve got it exactly backwards.

Paul wrote whole entire epistles against keeping the law of Moses as believers, such as Galatians.

The teaching of the gospel is as follows.
A. Christ died that you may also die in Him. Price paid.
B. Christ rose that you might live a new life in Him.
C. The new life you live is led by the Spirit of Christ in you. The very same Spirit and the same Godhead that wrote His very law with His own finger on stone.
D. He has promised to write that very same law, not in stone, but on fleshly tables of the hearts of all those who are joined with Him as the new Israel. . Your heart. If you believe.
E. The question God then poses, because He doesn't impose or coerce His will upon anyone, is..."do you believe?".
F. Finally. As in the old, also in the new, the just, and only the just, shall live by faith, and only faith. Who are the just? They who have been justified, sanctified, made righteous and holy by the Spirit of the Almighty. They are described as following... They who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.

 

[Brakelite]

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

KJV Romans 6:4-14
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[MatthewG]

Remember the context of this statement.
He was being provoked by pharisees because His disciples were harvesting grain on sabbath, to eat for themselves.
He responded not by denying they were breaking sabbath but by giving two examples of men violating the letter of the law but still being righteous: David & his company eating shewbread and the priests in the temple "desecrating" ((God's own word)) every sabbath by working in the temple - as the law requires them to!

It is in THAT context that He says He is Lord of the sabbath. The context of a righteousness that supercedes the written commandment!

Would agree.

 

[post]

KJV Romans 6:4-14
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Read it again.
With regard to the law, dead.
With regard to righteousness, alive.

No one is righteous by the law. That's not what the law was for. What was engraved on stone was a ministry of death.

Romans 7:1
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

 

[BarneyFife]

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(Exodus 20:8-11)

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
(Revelation 14:6-7)

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
(Ecclesiastes 12:13)​

 

[Brakelite]

No one is righteous by the law.

Not by the law, true. And no-one is claiming it is. But the righteousness of the law,
KJV Romans 8:4
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What brings about the righteousness of the law ( note that Paul isn't talking about the law disappearing) ?

KJV Romans 8:1-3
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Notice what is condemned here... Transgression of the law. Not us, because as you say, we died in Christ. Not the law, because the law is a written transcript of the character of God... It is a reflection of His righteousness and His righteousness according to God's own testimony, will never be abolished.
KJV Isaiah 51:6-8
6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.

KJV Psalms 40:10
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

KJV Psalms 119:169-176
169 Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.
170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word.
171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

 

[Ziggy]

Some Sabbatarians are as mean as snakes:

The Lord of the Sabbath
(1 Samuel 21:1–7; Matthew 12:1–8; Luke 6:1–5)

Mark 2:23One Sabbath Jesus was passing through the grainfields, and His disciples began to pick the heads of grain as they walked along. 24So the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”25Jesus replied, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26During the high priesthood of Abiathar, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread,c which was lawful only for the priests. And he gave some to his companions as well.”27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

This so rings of Laws for thee but not for me.
It was lawful for the priests but not the peasants.

When you compare what Jesus was doing that Sabbth day with his disciples that were hungry,
and you compare that to what God says is acceptable during the fast/feasts which sabbaths are feast days...
You find a long passage in the book of Isaiah chapter 58.
The Sabbath was made for man can be heard in this chapter.

HEAR:

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Those guys that were accusing Jesus' disciples of plucking corn...
they sound like the same guys who was accusing that man of picking up sticks.

If you read Isaiah chapter 58. God shows you what he finds UNACCEPTABLE on His day.
LOOK WHAT THEY DO:

Isa 58:3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
Isa 58:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

Now what was those Pharisees doing in the field?
Looking for a fight, pointing fingers and accusing, they was touting their own righteous horn.
They were fools who thought they was wise.

And you know God provided the corn for the disciples to pluck. He grew it for them to eat.
I don't think the Pharisees were in the sharing business,
they was in the money making business and they didn't want to lose any profits from people eating "their" crop.
As if they created the seed and the dirt and the rain and the sun to produce it in the first place..
Just saying..

Hugs

 

[post]

Those guys that were accusing Jesus' disciples of plucking corn...
they sound like the same guys who was accusing that man of picking up sticks.

It is the LORD who said that man gathering sticks must be put to death by the whole congregation.