Matthew 28:19 – Trinity corrupted verse

[keithr]

From the OP:

There is now even better proof than this though. It was known by the Catholic Church that the Jews had preserved a copy of the original Gospel of Matthew in the Hebrew language.
​

False claim. There are no original manuscripts. They don't exist. What we have are extant copies meticulously preserved by scribes and later canonized.

You weren't reading carefully enough! I wrote that the Jews had preserved "a copy of the original", not that the original was obtained and preserved by them.

This "this very valuable Hebrew Gospel" is a polemical treatise written by a Jew in the 14th century, if you bother to read the introduction of your own links:

I did read the introduction of the book.

the twelfth (sometimes thirteenth) contains the entire Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, with polemical comments by Shem-Tob interspersed throughout the text.​

As it says, the twelfth version of Shem-Tob's work contained a copy of the entire Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew.

Your "proof" is shaky at best. A Jew in the 14th century is not an authority on the Trinity, since they flatly deny it.

Shem-Tob's work included a copy of the entire Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, which has absolutely nothing to do with the Trinity, it was just included for reference for the reader.

The real error we need to examine are the false teachings of Oneness Pentecostalism.

This thread was just supposed to be about the corruption of Matthew 28:19. I was simply sharing information. There is no need to examine any teachings of any denomination in this thread.

Personally, I don't have a problem with "Jesus only" baptism, if it is understood that "Jesus" encompasses His oneness with the Father, and the Person of the Holy Spirit, that should be a given.

Where in the Bible does it it say that Jesus is one with the Holy Spirit? Jesus claims to be one with his Father (God), e.g. John 10:30,
"I and the Father are one", but he never claims to be one with the 'Holy Spirit'. The oneness that he is talking about is being of one accord. Jesus prayed that all Christians would be one too (John 17):

20) Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who will believe in me through their word,
21) that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.

or as Paul puts it:

"make my joy full, by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" (Philippians 2:2)​

 

[keithr]

But you assert the historic Church fell away, contrary to God's promises. We believe in faith that the Church is infallible and indefectible, based on many biblical indications. It is theoretically possible (speaking in terms of philosophy or epistemology) that the Church could stray and have to be rejected, but the Bible rules that out. We believe in faith that it has not and will not.

(Matthew 7:21-23)

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’​

Protestants don’t have enough faith to believe that God could preserve an infallible Church, even though they can muster up even more faith than that, which is required to believe in an infallible Bible written by a bunch of sinners and hypocrites.

We simply have more faith than you guys do. It’s a supernatural gift. We believe that the authoritative Church is also a key part of God’s plan to save the souls of men. We follow the model of the Jerusalem Council, whereas you guys reject that or ignore it, because it doesn’t fit in with the man-made tradition of Protestantism and a supposedly non-infallible Church.

I started this thread to simply share some information so that others could avoid being deceived by a corrupted verse. That was over 2 weeks ago, and there has been a lot of discussion in this thread since then (over 500 replies). But it's now degenerating from personal attacks to attacking all Protestants, by people lacking humility and Christian love. I've put a lot of my time and effort into answering all the questions that people have asked, but it's taking up too much of my time, and some of the responders are too unfriendly. So I'm calling it time on this thread and I won't participate in this discussion any further. Just so you know.

 

[keithr]

Dear keithr, Good morning/afternoon. I have to go to work but will get back to you - Please review and read about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in Genesis. After you read that, go to Exodus 3:14-16

I guess you forgot about this?

 

[Illuminator]

(Matthew 7:21-23)

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’​

"...he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." is not for you to decide. These verses do not disprove the indefectability and infallibility of historic Church teaching, but it does prove empty religionism exists.​

I started this thread to simply share some information so that others could avoid being deceived by a corrupted verse.

I'm not convinced Matthew 28:19 is a corrupted verse because you fail to understand how the Gospels were written. The doctrine of the Trinity does not hinge on one verse. It can be explained without Matthew 28:19.

That was over 2 weeks ago, and there has been a lot of discussion in this thread since then (over 500 replies). But it's now degenerating from personal attacks to attacking all Protestants, by people lacking humility and Christian love.

That the historic Church "fell away" doctrinally has never been proven, just asserted. It's stupid and insulting and an attack on all Catholics. Playing the "lacking humility and Christian love" card is hypocritical on your part.

I've put a lot of my time and effort into answering all the questions that people have asked, but it's taking up too much of my time, and some of the responders are too unfriendly. So I'm calling it time on this thread and I won't participate in this discussion any further. Just so you know.

Don't go yet, I'm just warming up.

 

[Illuminator]

You weren't reading carefully enough! I wrote that the Jews had preserved "a copy of the original", not that the original was obtained and preserved by them.

That's not surprising, since Jews reject the Trinity. How do we know Shem-Tob didn't alter the verse from a supposed original that no one has seen?

 

[David in NJ]

I guess you forgot about this?

Yes, i did - please forgive me, i am busy with work right now -Thank YOU for the reminder
Maybe later today - Hopefully

 

[BroRando]

Dear BroRando,
Those of us who have been Born Again by the Holy Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ know who God is because He revealed Himself to us through His Word and His Spirit.
It is this Great Joy that wells up from inside us through His revealed knowledge of scripture, opening and freeing our minds to understand and know His Truth.
We do not put our trust in man concerning these things, neither did we discover these things on our own but the Father chose us to know Him through His Son revealed by His Spirit directly into our spirit.

Pray to the Lord Jesus Christ, open your heart to Him. He will not lie to you or mislead you.
PEACE

I know. The Time Left Is Reduced!

 

[David in NJ]

I guess you forgot about this?

OK I am back now from work - Can you please relay the question again - Thank You

 

[David in NJ]

Hi David.

Using Scripture alone can you tell me how many books are to supposed to be in your Bible?

Thank you.

Was busy the past few days, anyway....

ANSWER: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God -
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[David in NJ]

No, I don't understand how you can think that God's son is called Yahweh from the Old Testament. Reveal that to me if you can (from the Old Testament only). Is the Holy Spirit also called Yahweh? I'm not aware of the Holy Spirit having a name. If Jesus is Yahweh then that means the Trinity theory/doctrine can't be correct!

If Jesus is God then why does he say in Revelation 3:12, "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name"?

You missed the ending: "and My(Jesus) Own New Name."

The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are 'echad' Elohim.

But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its Temple.
And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates it and the Lamb is its light.

No separation between the Father and the Son = they are EQUAL and UNITED as ONE.

 

[GEN2REV]

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine. Just as Sunday Sabbath is.

The theme of the entire book of the Bible reflects repeatedly that God is ONE.

The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

Their definition = 3 separate distinct beings that are all one.

Distinct and One cannot describe the same thing.

Distinct means different in nature.

They are ONE Spirit; they are NOT a spirit with two buddies. That is blasphemy created by man.

Those who fight tooth and nail FOR the Trinity Doctrine ignore 99.9% of the Bible in order to do so.

 

[David in NJ]

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine. Just as Sunday Sabbath is.

The theme of the entire book of the Bible reflects repeatedly that God is ONE.

The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

Their definition = 3 separate distinct beings that are all one.

Distinct and One cannot describe the same thing.

Distinct means different in nature.

They are ONE Spirit; they are NOT a spirit with two buddies. That is blasphemy created by man.

Those who fight tooth and nail FOR the Trinity Doctrine ignore 99.9% of the Bible in order to do so.

You missed the opening theme in Genesis - better go back and read again.

 

[Mungo]

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine. Just as Sunday Sabbath is.

The theme of the entire book of the Bible reflects repeatedly that God is ONE.

The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

Their definition = 3 separate distinct beings that are all one.

Distinct and One cannot describe the same thing.

Distinct means different in nature.

They are ONE Spirit; they are NOT a spirit with two buddies. That is blasphemy created by man.

Those who fight tooth and nail FOR the Trinity Doctrine ignore 99.9% of the Bible in order to do so.

Straw man argument. The Trinity is not "3 separate distinct beings that are all one."

"Don’t criticize what you can’t understand" - Bob Dylan

 

[keithr]

OK I am back now from work - Can you please relay the question again - Thank You

I'm not participating in this thread any more, but if you want to respond then see posts #419 and #420.

 

[David in NJ]

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine. Just as Sunday Sabbath is.

The theme of the entire book of the Bible reflects repeatedly that God is ONE.

The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

Their definition = 3 separate distinct beings that are all one.

Distinct and One cannot describe the same thing.

Distinct means different in nature.

They are ONE Spirit; they are NOT a spirit with two buddies. That is blasphemy created by man.

Those who fight tooth and nail FOR the Trinity Doctrine ignore 99.9% of the Bible in order to do so.

You said: "The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny."

This made my day so far - busted up laughing. I guess you never read Genesis............

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You said: "The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny."
This made my day so far - busted up laughing. I guess you never read Genesis............

That begs the question also- Did you actually understand what you think you read in Genesis?

That also requires a specific definition of "The Trinity" as there are several variants out there. What specific flavor are you referring to?

Overall, the "trinity doctrine" (as it is commonly referred to in most Anglo cultures) is a man made false doctrine born mainly out of RCC manipulation and some serious transliteration errors.

There is but 1 God (the Supreme) and 1 Son (who is not the Father) and 1 Spirit (an Essence of the Supreme)

 

[Mungo]

Overall, the "trinity doctrine" (as it is commonly referred to in most Anglo cultures) is a man made false doctrine born mainly out of RCC manipulation and some serious transliteration errors.

Incorrect.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Incorrect.

No, it is not incorrect and I welcome any scripture ( no other authority or source would be recognized with any validity) you may have to show otherwise and I will be glad to help you understand why it is correct.

Lets have one please.

 

[Ezra]

The Trinity is a man-made doctrine. Just as Sunday Sabbath is.

The theme of the entire book of the Bible reflects repeatedly that God is ONE.

The very definition, their definition, of the Trinity collapses under the slightest scrutiny.

Their definition = 3 separate distinct beings that are all one.

Distinct and One cannot describe the same thing.

Distinct means different in nature.

They are ONE Spirit; they are NOT a spirit with two buddies. That is blasphemy created by man.

Those who fight tooth and nail FOR the Trinity Doctrine ignore 99.9% of the Bible in order to do so.

then how do you explain the comforter that Jesus left us
John 14:26
King James Version

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
please note Jesus is speaking he then references his Heavenly Father 3 separate beings .then we have this is my beloved son in whom i am well please . God speaking about his SON JESUS they cant be all the same God the father Jesus the son born of the virgin Mary and the comforter which is the Holy Ghost

hat is blasphemy created by man.

i have doubts you even know blaspheme is each one of the three are seperate but work together

 

[Mungo]

No, it is not incorrect and I welcome any scripture ( no other authority or source would be recognized with any validity) you may have to show otherwise and I will be glad to help you understand why it is correct.

Lets have one please.

There is a maxim - That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You made the claim.
You prove it.